Notices
Glow Engines Discuss RC glow engines

Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 07-30-2021, 03:01 PM
  #50851  
RichardGee
My Feedback: (156)
 
RichardGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dixon, CA
Posts: 1,163
Received 20 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Yes, I DO feel lucky and Horizon was under NO obligation to make good on this second-hand purchase.
On the other hand, it's pretty clear to me the technician who examined the engine could see that it had less than a minute of run time, and what I described is exactly what happened.
Interesting to note that in the FG-20 instructions, Saito emphasizes their 'rod bottom end to crankpin FIT' as being integral to engine longevity..... NO KIDDING
But in this case, whoever fit the rod to the crank, did something very wrong...

I am hopeful the FG-21 comes with an ignition that accepts 2S Lipos. The FG-20 did not.
Old 07-30-2021, 03:12 PM
  #50852  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.
Old 07-30-2021, 03:41 PM
  #50853  
RichardGee
My Feedback: (156)
 
RichardGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dixon, CA
Posts: 1,163
Received 20 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.
I am sure we could hijak this blog with oil discussions...
The ONLY reason I use Amsoil Dominator in my four stroke GAS RC engines is because when I purchase my new Moki 180 radial, Vogelsang said that was the ONLY oil they recommended.
He said that oils like RED LINE were great for two strokes, but not for four strokes where you need lots of unburned oil making its way past the rings and valves and lubricating all those moving parts.
I used to use Red Line in everything.
When I got the Moki I switched to Amsoil Dominator for all my gassers, 2 or 4 stroke, running it at 40:1.
In my Saitos, I run it 20:1.
So far, so good..
Old 07-30-2021, 03:49 PM
  #50854  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,774
Received 91 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Every FG-20 that comes my way gets the methanol conversion. Great engines.
Old 07-30-2021, 04:02 PM
  #50855  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Saito gassers (sans the FG20) run great the way they come, I wouldn't convert one to methanol even with cdi. I'd be more likely to convert an FA to gas, in the process of doing so now to my FA180.
Old 07-30-2021, 04:28 PM
  #50856  
erieqc
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Norwalk, OH
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Gary good luck tomorrow with the Curtiss. Hopefully you can burn all your fuel up. That’s a really nice looking plane.
Old 07-30-2021, 06:01 PM
  #50857  
triumphman49
My Feedback: (149)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 498
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hi Glowgeek, Am considering 100LL - have heard some positives, odorless and storage longevity - also just got new riding mower, and was wondering if you might share any negatives ( IF any ). Also use Ultra HP, with a touch of Klotz castor .
Thanks,
Mike
#723
Old 07-30-2021, 06:27 PM
  #50858  
the Wasp
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: VT
Posts: 5,384
Likes: 0
Received 41 Likes on 39 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jesse Open
Well, I was going by memory, so just to be sure, since we are being held to avery high standard,
I looked it up in the official instructions.
The span is not 68 or 69, it is considerably less, 66 inches is more like it.
"The plane came out quite heavy for the 68 or so inch wing."
Of course there was also the far more commonly seen 40 size Dragonlady, it had an even smaller wing. I wont bother to guess how much smaller. (52")

Major error, good catch. Certainly 66" is not close to 68"
The larger Dragon Lady has a 66” wingspan, requires a .60 to .90 2 stroke or .80 to 1.2 4 stroke and requires 4 channels to operate.
Gary
aa LOL that plane surly was not heavy with a 130 in it LOL I'm sure it lifted-off rather quickly LOL

Jim
Old 07-30-2021, 11:19 PM
  #50859  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,774
Received 91 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by the Wasp
aa LOL that plane surly was not heavy with a 130 in it LOL I'm sure it lifted-off rather quickly LOL

Jim
LOL indeed
But there is lot more to flying than lifting off "quickly". Slow flying ability was far better with the 125 and lift off was never an issue. Yes, waaaay too heavy for my purposes. I enjoy the 125 version a lot more, having actually experieced owning amd flying both versions. LOL.

By all means get a 130 twin brick on yours, I will leave the 125 single on mine.



Last edited by Jesse Open; 07-30-2021 at 11:22 PM.
Old 07-31-2021, 02:48 AM
  #50860  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by triumphman49
Hi Glowgeek, Am considering 100LL - have heard some positives, odorless and storage longevity - also just got new riding mower, and was wondering if you might share any negatives ( IF any ). Also use Ultra HP, with a touch of Klotz castor .
Thanks,
Mike
#723
Lead collects on the plug electrodes, especially if the engine is run rich (lower temps). At some point the plug will begin to misfire and/or short out at which point it needs to be cleaned or replaced. So far I haven't had a problem but I do run my gassers as lean as possible and don't spend a lot of time flying around at low rpm. My experience with this is limited as I have no more than 10 hours run time on any of my gassers while using 100LL. Just started using it in spring 2020.

I get my 100LL very cheap from a friend that's in the aviation biz, otherwise I would run non-ethanolated pump gas.
Old 07-31-2021, 02:56 AM
  #50861  
1200SportsterRider
Senior Member
 
1200SportsterRider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 34 Likes on 34 Posts
Default

The latest FG 21 rod, I put a couple of OZ of Corrosion X in the crankcase of new engines before I run them.

Saito FG 21 rod
Old 07-31-2021, 04:01 AM
  #50862  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,774
Received 91 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Yessir Dave, Saito finally made correct rods for their stink fueler converted model engines
Old 07-31-2021, 04:09 AM
  #50863  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 953
Received 31 Likes on 31 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RichardGee
I recently purchased a Saito FG-20 online. It was reportedly N.I.B. and when I received it, I concurred, it had not been previously run.
I mixed up a gallon of 20:1 using Amsoil Dominator and 95 octane methanol-free gas. 16x6 prop.
After several short burps of HAND starting the engine and having it burn out the prime, it finally kept running.
Throttle was set to approx. 3000 rpm.

Although I wasn't timing it, probably 20 seconds of running, and the engine STOPPED abruptly.
Attempting to restart by hand, the engine would NOT TURN OVER a complete revolution. It was binding and also making a troublesome metal on metal sound
Pulling the back plate revealed the bottom end of the rod was "egg shaped." It had been pounded out by the crankpin and also had contacted the insides of the crankcase.
I sent the engine in to Horizon for assessment and repairs. While I know Saito offers a 3-year warranty, I was well-aware this applies ONLY to the original purchaser.
I was also painfully aware the engine was older than 3 years and now OUT of production.

I accompanied the engine with a complete description of what happened, also mentioning that I have NEVER encountered such a problem with ANY engine (and I have run HUNDREDS over 50 years) and that my Saito glow and gas engines had been particularly wonderful performers. My most recent Saito gas engines (purchased new from Horizon) have been a 61cc twin and 90cc radial, BOTH superb running engines.

To my shock and amazement, Horizon chose to WARRANTY replace my engine with a new FG-21!
They did say this was a "one time thing"... but that's OK.
Now THAT is GREAT customer service
They mailed me a brannie new one too. Very similar circumstances. Good people.
Old 07-31-2021, 04:16 AM
  #50864  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 953
Received 31 Likes on 31 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RichardGee
I am sure we could hijak this blog with oil discussions...
The ONLY reason I use Amsoil Dominator in my four stroke GAS RC engines is because when I purchase my new Moki 180 radial, Vogelsang said that was the ONLY oil they recommended.
He said that oils like RED LINE were great for two strokes, but not for four strokes where you need lots of unburned oil making its way past the rings and valves and lubricating all those moving parts.
I used to use Red Line in everything.
When I got the Moki I switched to Amsoil Dominator for all my gassers, 2 or 4 stroke, running it at 40:1.
In my Saitos, I run it 20:1.
So far, so good..
Had the same discussion with doc. Gonna go with his Amsoil recommendation. He has sure seen plenty Moki innards....
Sad I won't get to enjoy the "racy red scent" on close fly bys...but oh well.
Old 07-31-2021, 05:37 AM
  #50865  
RichardGee
My Feedback: (156)
 
RichardGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dixon, CA
Posts: 1,163
Received 20 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Hyjinx
Had the same discussion with doc. Gonna go with his Amsoil recommendation. He has sure seen plenty Moki innards....
Sad I won't get to enjoy the "racy red scent" on close fly bys...but oh well.
Honestly? I like the smell of Amsoil more than Red Line. But, like cigars, that's a personal preference.
Old 07-31-2021, 06:16 AM
  #50866  
triumphman49
My Feedback: (149)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 498
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hello Glow, and thanx for the response. For me, sounds like the 100LL might be fine for my mower, but my putt-putt slow flying would probably create more issues than +s. As non-ethanol no lead is readily available to me, guess I'll stick with it. Say, aren't you also one of the many Mike's that contribute on this thread?

T-man49 in Al
#723
Old 07-31-2021, 08:25 AM
  #50867  
acdii
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Capron, IL
Posts: 10,000
Received 97 Likes on 88 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Richard, I've run my FG21's on 20:1 and on 15:1 gas/oil mix, not more than 100 rpm difference in peak rpm. I run 15:1 exclusively now for added protection. Aviation fuel (100LL) or Non Ethanolated gas and Stihl Ultra HP oil. Even though I use Amzoil products in my vehicles, was an Amzoil dealer for a few years, I cannot recommend Amzoil 2 stroke oil. Just way too much carbon buildup for my taste.

Same here, 16:1. Broke them in with Stihl, fly them on Amsoil. Agreed on the carbon too. With switch back to Stihl once I use up the Amsoil.

When I got the FG-11, and ran it @20:1, I was not satisfied with how dry the breather was and added more oil. I still run oil heavy.
Old 07-31-2021, 09:25 AM
  #50868  
RichardGee
My Feedback: (156)
 
RichardGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dixon, CA
Posts: 1,163
Received 20 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

OIL: I will say this, Ray English (who most Saito-philes know) is a BIG proponent of MORE OIL.
He said he would never run a Saito 4 stroke gasser on less than 15:1.
Probably wouldn't hurt anything!!
Old 07-31-2021, 11:58 AM
  #50869  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by triumphman49
Hello Glow, and thanx for the response. For me, sounds like the 100LL might be fine for my mower, but my putt-putt slow flying would probably create more issues than +s. As non-ethanol no lead is readily available to me, guess I'll stick with it. Say, aren't you also one of the many Mike's that contribute on this thread?

T-man49 in Al
#723
I'm Lonnie. Too many Mikes already.
Old 07-31-2021, 12:05 PM
  #50870  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by RichardGee
OIL: I will say this, Ray English (who most Saito-philes know) is a BIG proponent of MORE OIL.
He said he would never run a Saito 4 stroke gasser on less than 15:1.
Probably wouldn't hurt anything!!
Agreed, 15:1 or even 10:1 oil will not harm a bushed rod gasser. Rods with needle roller bearings, that's a different story.

As far as oil for gassers, Redline, Stihl Ultra HD, Amzoil Dominator, Castrol 2T etc, we each use what we want. It's part of the hobby and an individual choice. What's useful is when folks report back after extended use of a particular product. Nothing beats imperical data.

Lots of good contributors to the Saito cause lurk here. Custom mufflers, tools, engine mods, test runs, something always going on here. Way more to learn as a collective than on our own. Stick around a while, would enjoy hearing about your experiences with your Saitos.

Lonnie

Last edited by Glowgeek; 07-31-2021 at 12:39 PM.
Old 08-01-2021, 05:29 AM
  #50871  
Hyjinx
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 953
Received 31 Likes on 31 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Glowgeek
Agreed, 15:1 or even 10:1 oil will not harm a bushed rod gasser. Rods with needle roller bearings, that's a different story.

As far as oil for gassers, Redline, Stihl Ultra HD, Amzoil Dominator, Castrol 2T etc, we each use what we want. It's part of the hobby and an individual choice. What's useful is when folks report back after extended use of a particular product. Nothing beats imperical data.

Lots of good contributors to the Saito cause lurk here. Custom mufflers, tools, engine mods, test runs, something always going on here. Way more to learn as a collective than on our own. Stick around a while, would enjoy hearing about your experiences with your Saitos.

Lonnie
Plus just a bunch of really nice people who love Saitos!
I was referring tho the old Klotz ads Richard! Increased my carbon footprint yesterday...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ji8btYw9EJvyzqcd6
​​​​​​
Old 08-01-2021, 06:08 AM
  #50872  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,774
Received 91 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Pretty WACO there my friend!
Old 08-01-2021, 06:08 AM
  #50873  
FlyerInOKC
My Feedback: (6)
 
FlyerInOKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 14,148
Received 271 Likes on 236 Posts
Default

Eye candy!!!!
Old 08-01-2021, 11:00 AM
  #50874  
Jesse Open
 
Jesse Open's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: 30 Miles North of Canada Border
Posts: 3,774
Received 91 Likes on 83 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by erieqc
Gary good luck tomorrow with the Curtiss. Hopefully you can burn all your fuel up. That’s a really nice looking plane.

Hey thanks, yessiree a blast to fly. Lands slick with those split flaps too! Only burned just under 2 gallons of methanol and enjoyed every minute. The 180 is a very happy engine too.
I ordered a bunch of Walbro carbs from eBay for methanol conversion. Should have the Fuji on the Great Planes Super Sportster up and running on methanol by next week. I will


bring that one out to your field this summer.
Traded a Saito FA-90T for a very low time FG-14 gasper. Will be converting that one this week to methanol fuel and popping it into a Toledo Special.

Last edited by Jesse Open; 08-01-2021 at 02:19 PM.
Old 08-02-2021, 06:35 PM
  #50875  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,590
Received 64 Likes on 64 Posts
Default

Wait, is that a decapitated pilot slumped over the dash?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.