Welcome to Club SAITO !
01-31-2023, 03:57 PM
Video filmed at the local , Flying Pilgrims Club field near Canton MI. Pretty sure our radial guru , Aaron AKA "Hyjinx" flys from that field.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HINQSh_xcQ&embeds_euri=http%3A%2F%2Foldschoolmodels.com%2F&feature=emb_rel_pause
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-01-2023 at 05:26 AM.
02-02-2023, 03:52 AM
Senior Member
Gary, Mark Lanterman at Old School Models has an interesting news letter you might be interested in. Just sign up near the bottom of this page: https://www.oldschoolmodels.com/index.htm
Well hello out there and what a start to the year it's been.
First off, orders are still coming in, keeping Lisa and I busy. That's a good thing and I thank all of you who've purchased an Old School Model Works kit for your winter project.
However, other things are keeping me hopping in other ways.
The first is I've had to switch to a new company to send out these emails. Seems as though we've grown large enough that our previous company was going to hit us with a big bump in pricing. So I've hurriedly moved as much as I could over to this new system. It works differently, and things might look a bit different right now, but hopefully it works!
Secondly, our supply of CA hinges has dried up and it’s taken a bit of time a negotiation to find a substitute. I’ve found another supplier that I hope will be a good replacement.
But the biggest problem has been the loss of Sig Mfg. There's a lot of rumors going around as to what's going on with them - well I can tell you that as of 1/31, they have ceased all manufacturing and what's left will be an importer of ARF kits, moving somewhere up in the Chicago area. That's a shame, as there's a massive history and knowledge base that's apparently going to be lost. As you may or may not know, I purchase a good deal of items from Sig which are included in our own kits. Some wood, landing gear (music) wire, nose gear assemblies, etc. Their shutdown has sent me scrambling to find other suppliers. I'm well on the way to solving some of these, but let's just say it's taking ALL of my free time to make sure things are still shipping on time.
With these changes, I'm going to be forced into making a small price increase across most of the kits. I hope no more than $5.00 or so. More on that next month.
I know I keep talking about what's next in the kit lineup, and it is coming. Actually, in spite of everything I’ve just mentioned, I've made some breakthroughs on how to do things, even building up some proof-of-concept assemblies. So, if I can get these supply problems fixed, and no others pop up, it's quite possible I'll start cutting parts to build the first prototype as early as this coming week. The ironic thing is this new design uses more music wire than many of the other kits - so the loss of my music wire supplier couldn't happen at a better time - UGH!
Anyway, enough of that. I do have something new for you this month, which follows below. It‘s our first ever sale of excess balsa wood. More on that below.
As always, thanks for your time and your continued support!
If it's not not one thing, it's another...
Well hello out there and what a start to the year it's been.
First off, orders are still coming in, keeping Lisa and I busy. That's a good thing and I thank all of you who've purchased an Old School Model Works kit for your winter project.
However, other things are keeping me hopping in other ways.
The first is I've had to switch to a new company to send out these emails. Seems as though we've grown large enough that our previous company was going to hit us with a big bump in pricing. So I've hurriedly moved as much as I could over to this new system. It works differently, and things might look a bit different right now, but hopefully it works!
Secondly, our supply of CA hinges has dried up and it’s taken a bit of time a negotiation to find a substitute. I’ve found another supplier that I hope will be a good replacement.
But the biggest problem has been the loss of Sig Mfg. There's a lot of rumors going around as to what's going on with them - well I can tell you that as of 1/31, they have ceased all manufacturing and what's left will be an importer of ARF kits, moving somewhere up in the Chicago area. That's a shame, as there's a massive history and knowledge base that's apparently going to be lost. As you may or may not know, I purchase a good deal of items from Sig which are included in our own kits. Some wood, landing gear (music) wire, nose gear assemblies, etc. Their shutdown has sent me scrambling to find other suppliers. I'm well on the way to solving some of these, but let's just say it's taking ALL of my free time to make sure things are still shipping on time.
With these changes, I'm going to be forced into making a small price increase across most of the kits. I hope no more than $5.00 or so. More on that next month.
I know I keep talking about what's next in the kit lineup, and it is coming. Actually, in spite of everything I’ve just mentioned, I've made some breakthroughs on how to do things, even building up some proof-of-concept assemblies. So, if I can get these supply problems fixed, and no others pop up, it's quite possible I'll start cutting parts to build the first prototype as early as this coming week. The ironic thing is this new design uses more music wire than many of the other kits - so the loss of my music wire supplier couldn't happen at a better time - UGH!
Anyway, enough of that. I do have something new for you this month, which follows below. It‘s our first ever sale of excess balsa wood. More on that below.
As always, thanks for your time and your continued support!
Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 02-02-2023 at 04:01 AM. Reason: Add content
02-02-2023, 07:12 AM
Back to the125a that backfires. The clearance was much more than .01 for the valve adjustment. Could this be the problem or should I keep looking?
So sad about Sig. Sig coverall will be missed. Is there another source for that material?
jerry
So sad about Sig. Sig coverall will be missed. Is there another source for that material?
jerry
02-02-2023, 07:26 AM
Things that can cause backfire on a glow ignition 4 stroke:
1. Bad glow plug (intermittently glowing on start up)
2. Cam timing off
3. Overly rich fuel mixture (over compressing causing an overly advanced ignition event). This usually happens from over priming before start up.
4. Overly lean fuel mixture (causing an overly advanced ignition event)
5. Using a glow plug with too high of a temp range, especially in combination with high nitro content fuel.
6. Water contaminated fuel.
Have you checked the cam timing yet?
Last edited by Glowgeek; 02-02-2023 at 07:53 AM.
02-02-2023, 09:07 AM
The glow plug is a type F, I live in the south noted for humidity in the summer. The fuel is 15% nitro or 10%. This may be the glow plug that came with it and it has many flights over abut two years. The fuel is about 3% castor.
As far as cam timing goes the rockers are even and just starting to move at TDC of compression stroke. Other than that how should the cam timing be checked. This engine has performed very well untill the prop struck the ground in aborted take off.
As soon as the rain lets up a new glow plug and fuel will be used for a test run in the back yard.
Thanks
jerry
As far as cam timing goes the rockers are even and just starting to move at TDC of compression stroke. Other than that how should the cam timing be checked. This engine has performed very well untill the prop struck the ground in aborted take off.
As soon as the rain lets up a new glow plug and fuel will be used for a test run in the back yard.
Thanks
jerry
02-02-2023, 09:26 AM
The glow plug is a type F, I live in the south noted for humidity in the summer. The fuel is 15% nitro or 10%. This may be the glow plug that came with it and it has many flights over abut two years. The fuel is about 3% castor.
As far as cam timing goes the rockers are even and just starting to move at TDC of compression stroke. Other than that how should the cam timing be checked. This engine has performed very well untill the prop struck the ground in aborted take off.
As soon as the rain lets up a new glow plug and fuel will be used for a test run in the back yard.
Thanks
jerry
As far as cam timing goes the rockers are even and just starting to move at TDC of compression stroke. Other than that how should the cam timing be checked. This engine has performed very well untill the prop struck the ground in aborted take off.
As soon as the rain lets up a new glow plug and fuel will be used for a test run in the back yard.
Thanks
jerry
On the compression stroke the valves should be closed long before TDC and stay closed long after TDC. Re-read my earlier post on visually checking cam timing. The check is done at TDC on the exhaust stroke.
02-02-2023, 09:31 AM
I have at least 6 125s. Along with the 100 this is one of my faves and installing one right now in the latest build, a Pitts Python.
Several points, the first that you will most likely see backfire above 3/4 throttle if the HS needle is too lean or there is contamination blocking the fuel inlet fitting or fuel distribution tube. This is why I always install a fuel filter in the carb line.
Since you state it ran fine before you had that "Goat" event I would look to something mechanical. I have seen several cases with Saitos brought to me that would not start after such an event and all had at least one missing tooth on the cam gear. Since yours still activates the valvetrain that is low on the list.
NOTE: The higher chances of ground impact on first flights are why I try to use wood props as they sacrifice before doing any further damage.
You can check timing by spinning the prop till the piston is on TDC where both valve openings overlap. The rockers should then have the valves compressed the same amount or very close. If there is any significant difference then you are going to have to dismantle the engine far enough to check out why this is happening.
You can take advantage of this in several other areas. Since the jug has to be removed to pull the cam cover you will have to pretty much have to go down to only the crank still in the main case. At this point you can inspect the internals, such as rod and liner condition, as well as any ferrous bits looking for corrosion.
After the cam cover is off check closely for signs of damage to the gears and wear on the cam lobes and follower contact faces.
I would strongly recommend you order a gasket and valvetrain seal kit ahead of time as replacing the paper and rubber parts with new would be almost guaranteed to help a lot on reassembly, (valve cover gaskets almost never come off intact).
If the cam is good installing it correctly is not that difficult, with the piston at TDC there is a dot on the cam that lines up with the crank. It can be a bit of a pain to ensure it does not turn as you drop the cover on and there is a tool to hold the cam in place, but I find if careful I get it every time.
ps. If taking the engine apart, pay particular attention to a thin alloy retaining ring on the intake tube that backs against the O-ring in the cylinder head. I have seen this missing far too many times and cannot remember if it comes in the kit. Also, if available replace all the O-rings, such as that one and the seal inside the carb bore outlet.
If you do not have a manual with the parts breakdown PM me your Email and can send it off to you.
Several points, the first that you will most likely see backfire above 3/4 throttle if the HS needle is too lean or there is contamination blocking the fuel inlet fitting or fuel distribution tube. This is why I always install a fuel filter in the carb line.
Since you state it ran fine before you had that "Goat" event I would look to something mechanical. I have seen several cases with Saitos brought to me that would not start after such an event and all had at least one missing tooth on the cam gear. Since yours still activates the valvetrain that is low on the list.
NOTE: The higher chances of ground impact on first flights are why I try to use wood props as they sacrifice before doing any further damage.
You can check timing by spinning the prop till the piston is on TDC where both valve openings overlap. The rockers should then have the valves compressed the same amount or very close. If there is any significant difference then you are going to have to dismantle the engine far enough to check out why this is happening.
You can take advantage of this in several other areas. Since the jug has to be removed to pull the cam cover you will have to pretty much have to go down to only the crank still in the main case. At this point you can inspect the internals, such as rod and liner condition, as well as any ferrous bits looking for corrosion.
After the cam cover is off check closely for signs of damage to the gears and wear on the cam lobes and follower contact faces.
I would strongly recommend you order a gasket and valvetrain seal kit ahead of time as replacing the paper and rubber parts with new would be almost guaranteed to help a lot on reassembly, (valve cover gaskets almost never come off intact).
If the cam is good installing it correctly is not that difficult, with the piston at TDC there is a dot on the cam that lines up with the crank. It can be a bit of a pain to ensure it does not turn as you drop the cover on and there is a tool to hold the cam in place, but I find if careful I get it every time.
ps. If taking the engine apart, pay particular attention to a thin alloy retaining ring on the intake tube that backs against the O-ring in the cylinder head. I have seen this missing far too many times and cannot remember if it comes in the kit. Also, if available replace all the O-rings, such as that one and the seal inside the carb bore outlet.
If you do not have a manual with the parts breakdown PM me your Email and can send it off to you.
Last edited by Cougar429; 02-02-2023 at 09:34 AM.
02-02-2023, 02:57 PM
Mr Cougar, nice to hear from you. Are you going to the Toledo RC Expo this year? Still offering to buy you lunch if you care to cross the river and perhaps drop a few Loonies at the Prop Shop.
Great tips from Down South, in Canada! (As usual)
Great tips from Down South, in Canada! (As usual)
02-02-2023, 03:12 PM
My error in the post 53508 I should have said exhaust stroke. Fingers working faster than brain.
Once this rain and cold let up, 19 Friday morning, the engine will be tested with new plug and fuel.
Thankis Cougar and Glowgeek.
Jerry
Once this rain and cold let up, 19 Friday morning, the engine will be tested with new plug and fuel.
Thankis Cougar and Glowgeek.
Jerry
02-02-2023, 04:46 PM
Gary, Mark Lanterman at Old School Models has an interesting news letter you might be interested in. Just sign up near the bottom of this page: https://www.oldschoolmodels.com/index.htm
Well hello out there and what a start to the year it's been.
First off, orders are still coming in, keeping Lisa and I busy. That's a good thing and I thank all of you who've purchased an Old School Model Works kit for your winter project.
However, other things are keeping me hopping in other ways.
The first is I've had to switch to a new company to send out these emails. Seems as though we've grown large enough that our previous company was going to hit us with a big bump in pricing. So I've hurriedly moved as much as I could over to this new system. It works differently, and things might look a bit different right now, but hopefully it works!
Secondly, our supply of CA hinges has dried up and it’s taken a bit of time a negotiation to find a substitute. I’ve found another supplier that I hope will be a good replacement.
But the biggest problem has been the loss of Sig Mfg. There's a lot of rumors going around as to what's going on with them - well I can tell you that as of 1/31, they have ceased all manufacturing and what's left will be an importer of ARF kits, moving somewhere up in the Chicago area. That's a shame, as there's a massive history and knowledge base that's apparently going to be lost. As you may or may not know, I purchase a good deal of items from Sig which are included in our own kits. Some wood, landing gear (music) wire, nose gear assemblies, etc. Their shutdown has sent me scrambling to find other suppliers. I'm well on the way to solving some of these, but let's just say it's taking ALL of my free time to make sure things are still shipping on time.
With these changes, I'm going to be forced into making a small price increase across most of the kits. I hope no more than $5.00 or so. More on that next month.
I know I keep talking about what's next in the kit lineup, and it is coming. Actually, in spite of everything I’ve just mentioned, I've made some breakthroughs on how to do things, even building up some proof-of-concept assemblies. So, if I can get these supply problems fixed, and no others pop up, it's quite possible I'll start cutting parts to build the first prototype as early as this coming week. The ironic thing is this new design uses more music wire than many of the other kits - so the loss of my music wire supplier couldn't happen at a better time - UGH!
Anyway, enough of that. I do have something new for you this month, which follows below. It‘s our first ever sale of excess balsa wood. More on that below.
As always, thanks for your time and your continued support!
If it's not not one thing, it's another...
Well hello out there and what a start to the year it's been.
First off, orders are still coming in, keeping Lisa and I busy. That's a good thing and I thank all of you who've purchased an Old School Model Works kit for your winter project.
However, other things are keeping me hopping in other ways.
The first is I've had to switch to a new company to send out these emails. Seems as though we've grown large enough that our previous company was going to hit us with a big bump in pricing. So I've hurriedly moved as much as I could over to this new system. It works differently, and things might look a bit different right now, but hopefully it works!
Secondly, our supply of CA hinges has dried up and it’s taken a bit of time a negotiation to find a substitute. I’ve found another supplier that I hope will be a good replacement.
But the biggest problem has been the loss of Sig Mfg. There's a lot of rumors going around as to what's going on with them - well I can tell you that as of 1/31, they have ceased all manufacturing and what's left will be an importer of ARF kits, moving somewhere up in the Chicago area. That's a shame, as there's a massive history and knowledge base that's apparently going to be lost. As you may or may not know, I purchase a good deal of items from Sig which are included in our own kits. Some wood, landing gear (music) wire, nose gear assemblies, etc. Their shutdown has sent me scrambling to find other suppliers. I'm well on the way to solving some of these, but let's just say it's taking ALL of my free time to make sure things are still shipping on time.
With these changes, I'm going to be forced into making a small price increase across most of the kits. I hope no more than $5.00 or so. More on that next month.
I know I keep talking about what's next in the kit lineup, and it is coming. Actually, in spite of everything I’ve just mentioned, I've made some breakthroughs on how to do things, even building up some proof-of-concept assemblies. So, if I can get these supply problems fixed, and no others pop up, it's quite possible I'll start cutting parts to build the first prototype as early as this coming week. The ironic thing is this new design uses more music wire than many of the other kits - so the loss of my music wire supplier couldn't happen at a better time - UGH!
Anyway, enough of that. I do have something new for you this month, which follows below. It‘s our first ever sale of excess balsa wood. More on that below.
As always, thanks for your time and your continued support!
Back to the bad news about Sig and Post Foam Toy R/C in general:
Dave,
I was talking to the "Lady on the Phone" at Sig a few days ago. Asked her if there was any hope in waiting to see Sig kits in stock again. She said they were presently packing and moving to another state. They hoped to resume kit production but no idea regarding when.
A nice way of saying probably never???
I certainly hope to see Sig kits again. If I were younger, I would be trying to buy that part of Sig's business!!
And, on the bright side I ordered the Robinhood 25 on Saturday and just got notice it will be here tomorrow.
Best wishes for the return of Sig Kits. My R/C days were greatly enhanced because they were there.
02-02-2023, 05:41 PM
Jesse, unfortunately does not look like I will be able to get my passport back in time to make it this year.
As for purchasing an R/C company, I was standing to the side at the Toledo Show in the late 80's when my friend talked to Duke Fox aboot doing that and had no interest shown at all. Too bad. Fox engines were diamonds in the rough.
As for purchasing an R/C company, I was standing to the side at the Toledo Show in the late 80's when my friend talked to Duke Fox aboot doing that and had no interest shown at all. Too bad. Fox engines were diamonds in the rough.
Last edited by Cougar429; 02-02-2023 at 05:44 PM.
02-03-2023, 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by Glowgeek View Post
Too bad all the commentary is linked to Insta-scam.
Which means?
Too bad all the commentary is linked to Insta-scam.
Which means?
On a more serious note, I pull the choke assemblies from any of my engines. Never needed them. Wanted to check if others found this the same.
02-03-2023, 04:01 AM
Good one! 
With few exceptions my Saitos are equipped with velocity stacks, which warrants the removal of the choke plate anyway. A finger over the exhaust works just as well for priming.
02-03-2023, 04:23 AM
Yeee Haaw! Ordered Saturday night from DuBro. Delivered today, Friday afternoon. Will be ready to fly by next weekend.....
Dave,
Thanks for the link. Very informative I had no problem reading the R/C related portion only.
Chokes?
I remove them, or not. Didn't consider removal as a mandated issue.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-03-2023 at 04:49 PM.
02-03-2023, 06:39 PM
My Feedback: (1)
Yeee Haaw! Ordered Saturday night from DuBro. Delivered today, Friday afternoon. Will be ready to fly by next weekend.....
Dave,
Thanks for the link. Very informative I had no problem reading the R/C related portion only.
Chokes?
I remove them, or not. Didn't consider removal as a mandated issue.
Dave,
Thanks for the link. Very informative I had no problem reading the R/C related portion only.
Chokes?
I remove them, or not. Didn't consider removal as a mandated issue.
Jim
02-04-2023, 03:40 AM
Senior Member
This one is a 50.
for Saito's above 50.
Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 02-04-2023 at 03:41 AM. Reason: Add content.
02-04-2023, 04:07 AM
Senior Member
Wow Gary, nice buy, you didn't have to wait for Mark to cut.it: https://www.dubro.com/collections/ai...ol-model-works
Lonnie, thanks for the Boca hat, I've been so busy catching up on cutting firewood and getting Geri ready for her hand operation, that went off without a hitch yesterday. My 78 y-o brother Paul in Columbia, Mo. is down with a blood clot in one of his upper ventricles.
Lonnie, thanks for the Boca hat, I've been so busy catching up on cutting firewood and getting Geri ready for her hand operation, that went off without a hitch yesterday. My 78 y-o brother Paul in Columbia, Mo. is down with a blood clot in one of his upper ventricles.
02-04-2023, 04:19 AM
Senior Member
I have two LT 25's, two LT 40's, an unfinished MidStar, a 110 sized Rascal, a FourStar 54. I am in good shape Sig wise.
Message at Sig:
Message at Sig:
Last edited by 1200SportsterRider; 02-04-2023 at 04:27 AM. Reason: Add image
02-04-2023, 09:27 AM
Dave,
While I ordered from DuBro, the kit was drop-shipped direct from the kit maker. I plan to order the 80 version next week.
Thanks for the more official Sig update. Pretty much what I was told by the lady at Sig. Hope it is true!
Only one LT-25 left, built the first one in 1997, first one that arrived at the hobby shop. Looking to pick up another kit for "insurance". Have a very old LT-40 that spent it's first 15 years as a float plane, now a lamd plane and loving it.
Two older, kit-built Four Star 60 planes and a Kadet Sr nearly ready to cover, this one will be another three channel tail dragger. Got a Kadet Mk 2 that will also be converted to Mk1 and tail dragger gear. Cleared the unfinished projects from the boards to push the RH-25 ahead. Traded off a Saito 30 to get a fresh OS FS26 for the RH.
I use been using those Saito clips on both my machined aluminum stacks and the brass tube stacks. I prefer to use brass when fitting the oil recirc connection as it solders a lot more easily. The two piece, pass thru stacks get a swedged, telescopic hub to spigot joint .
When Saito clips run out I just fabricate my own from anealed blue spring steel sheet.
Also been making those 90 degree elbows ever since we started moving the rear vent forward around 1979! Originally made them from one piece of brass but that was rather fussy machine work so now I just make the barb end and sweat solder that into a drilled hole.
The OS Gemini vent elbow is machined, one piece from brass bar stock. 100% in a metal lathe.
Machined stack, held in place by roll-formed flange
Oil recirc via intake stack.
From 1999, another Sig favorite. Somethin Extra . Powered by a real sweet powerhouse, the Mighty YS-53.
While I ordered from DuBro, the kit was drop-shipped direct from the kit maker. I plan to order the 80 version next week.
Thanks for the more official Sig update. Pretty much what I was told by the lady at Sig. Hope it is true!
Only one LT-25 left, built the first one in 1997, first one that arrived at the hobby shop. Looking to pick up another kit for "insurance". Have a very old LT-40 that spent it's first 15 years as a float plane, now a lamd plane and loving it.
Two older, kit-built Four Star 60 planes and a Kadet Sr nearly ready to cover, this one will be another three channel tail dragger. Got a Kadet Mk 2 that will also be converted to Mk1 and tail dragger gear. Cleared the unfinished projects from the boards to push the RH-25 ahead. Traded off a Saito 30 to get a fresh OS FS26 for the RH.
I use been using those Saito clips on both my machined aluminum stacks and the brass tube stacks. I prefer to use brass when fitting the oil recirc connection as it solders a lot more easily. The two piece, pass thru stacks get a swedged, telescopic hub to spigot joint .
When Saito clips run out I just fabricate my own from anealed blue spring steel sheet.
Also been making those 90 degree elbows ever since we started moving the rear vent forward around 1979! Originally made them from one piece of brass but that was rather fussy machine work so now I just make the barb end and sweat solder that into a drilled hole.
The OS Gemini vent elbow is machined, one piece from brass bar stock. 100% in a metal lathe.
Machined stack, held in place by roll-formed flange
Oil recirc via intake stack.
From 1999, another Sig favorite. Somethin Extra . Powered by a real sweet powerhouse, the Mighty YS-53.
Last edited by Jesse Open; 02-04-2023 at 10:59 AM.