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Welcome to Club SAITO !

Old 05-13-2012, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

ORIGINAL: mudboger07


ORIGINAL: JohnB96041

Never heard of valve getting out of adjustment that quick. Describe the ''out of adjustment'' in more detail. I have 3 Saito 1.25 engines. Did the breakin according to the manual, ran about a gallon of fuel through the engines while flying, adjusted the valves and have not had to do it again, so far. Three years of flying. Are you sure that you are adjusting the valves according to the manual? Did you set the lock nut after adjusting? Was the gap still what is should be after locking the lock nut? The settings can slip when tightening the locknut and it will open the gap.
Hey John, This is the first one we have had do this, and we both have quite a few saitos, we made sure after sdjusting the valves they were still in adjustment, we set the lock nut and rechecked. The gap was the same after setting and after seting the lock nut, sometimes it will hold for one flight but most of the time after just a few minutes it comes loose the the point there is over a 60 thousand gap I dont have the manual in front of me but if i remember correctly they set at 4 thousants. also the lock nuts are not loose or any other part of the valve train is loose, Im starting to wonder if something liek the rocker arm is bending? I do know the push rod is straight.

Sounds more like accellerated cam lobe or tappet wear. Pull the cam housing & have a look see. Probably assembled dry.

BTW: I set mine @ .0015", that's .04mm not .004"
Old 05-13-2012, 04:32 PM
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My FG 36 died a horrible death when a valve came loose and ate the piston, Horizon says almost as much to rebuild as a new engine so I'm looking for a parts engine or two, does anyone have a good source for parts?
Old 05-13-2012, 09:22 PM
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This is too simplistic also, but .004? That is about twice as much clearance as they need for starters. Unlike many automotive 4-strokes, the valve clearance actually increases as the aluminum block gets hot. So they could be a bit noisy and shock loading with extra clearance rather than ramping up and down smoothly which could lead to more clearance, etc.

Thanks,

Ernie Misner
Old 05-15-2012, 03:40 AM
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ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

Saito 100 on the 40 size Twist??? Far out man! .... but will it balance? Watch out for that plastic spinner on a powerful 4-stroke. Don't stand near by and wear your safety equipment. Let us know what it's like with all that power.

Ernie Misner

flew the bird yesterday twice. what a sweet sound from the fa 100. love it.
plane took off in under 10 yards. great power. did rolls, loops, snap rolls, inverted flight.

on second flight, i then changed from low rates to high rates to see what she could do. major movement from the bird. in under 1 minute, i changed back to low rates. after this, i noticed she was flying slighly off and wanting to slightly roll right.

i landed her, and noticed the right aileron 3 out of 4 ca hinges came apart. close call.

need to put in the dubro hinges with epoxy


LOL

it was fun overall.
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Old 05-15-2012, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Learned my lesson the hard way also with hinges...I always pin them with toothpicks and glue in addition to epoxy...never had a problem since.
Glad all went well
Old 05-15-2012, 04:23 PM
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Dubro pinned hinges, water, and Gorilla Glue.
Old 05-15-2012, 10:57 PM
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The CA hinges pulled right out of their slots? Guess I've been lucky all these years.

Thanks,

Ernie Misner
Old 05-15-2012, 11:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: blw

Dubro pinned hinges, water, and Gorilla Glue.
What is the proceedure for replacing the CA hinges with the Debro pinned hinges? Never done that before.
Old 05-16-2012, 03:34 AM
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i pulled them out with pliers, then used a hinge slot machine to make slot slightly thicker, by removing just a tiny bit more wood. then i trialed tested the dubro pinned hinges.

then glued them in.


however, there is one disadvantage of using these hinges, and that is, that the control surfaces cannot be as close together as with CA hinges. that is, the aileron to wing gap is about 3 to 4 mm, whereas with CA hinges, the gap is about 1 mm.
Old 05-16-2012, 05:38 AM
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ORIGINAL: cshahrdar

i pulled them out with pliers, then used a hinge slot machine to make slot slightly thicker, by removing just a tiny bit more wood. then i trialed tested the dubro pinned hinges.

then glued them in.


however, there is one disadvantage of using these hinges, and that is, that the control surfaces cannot be as close together as with CA hinges. that is, the aileron to wing gap is about 3 to 4 mm, whereas with CA hinges, the gap is about 1 mm.
For the Du Bro hinges, I cut a small flat the width of the hinge across the slot on both the fixed and moving surfaces, and insert the hinge so that the surfaces almost touch, leaving minimal gap. Just my approach.
Old 05-16-2012, 06:09 AM
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When I install dubro or robart hinges I cut the slot or hole slightly smaller than the hinge glue surface. I then releave some wood so thatthe part of the hinge where the pin is will sit half way into both the control surface and flight surface. In this way the pin is sitting in line the the joining line of the two surfaces.Therefore, I have almost no gap. Of course one must lube the pin area so that the glue does not clog or glue the pin in one location with in the hing. apply glue to the hinges and control surface slots. Slide them together and work them back and forth to ensure the pins are alined the clamp them firmly together so the gap is tight and allow the glue to cure. After the glue is cured I inspect the joint to ensure it is correct then I drill a hole slightly smaller than my toothpick and inset them from the bottom and glue.
Old 05-16-2012, 09:40 AM
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I've used epoxy and Gorilla Glue on pinned hinges. I use a toothpick and put a small line of Vaseline along the hinge to keep the glue from getting into them. You have to do this with Gorilla Glue as it expands so much.

The other thing I now do is cover the hinges. I use a single piece of covering if I'm covering from scratch, and iron it down into the hinge line and over to the control surfaces. I use a strip of covering on the bottom side if it wasn't done originally.

Due to stupidity on my part, I had a 60 sized model with a Saito 125 on it have bad aileron flutter on the maiden flight. It ripped the hinges loose in both ailerons, and one elevator. The covering held everything tight and you couldn't tell anything from looking at it. BTW, that fluttering cracked loose the canopy glue, broke the stab loose from the fuselage, and cracked most of the balsa in the wing pan. I'm a big believer in covering the hinge lines.
Old 05-16-2012, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Amen to that.I usually fully deflect a control surface and run clear sellotape evenly along the underside.

Just bought a new saito fg57.Are there any threads or forums with info to read before i set it up and run it? tried the first thirty pages of the gas forum and no luck so far,cheers all.
Old 05-16-2012, 06:59 PM
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this one:<div>?</div><div>
</div><div><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; line-height: 16px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; display: block; position: relative; " class="prod_img"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; " class="info"><h3 style="margin-top: 0.5em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.3em; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 1.4em; font-weight: bold; ">57cc Gas Twin Engine 4-Stroke: BG</h3><p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; font-size: 1.2em; ">By: Saito Engines 
Item: SAIEG57T</p></div></span></div>
Old 05-16-2012, 07:01 PM
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if so, i have the fg 36<div>what a beauty.</div><div>
</div><div>i followed the directions for break in</div><div>with the 20 to 1 oil mix, and that is still what i used after break in</div><div>
</div><div>
</div><div>after several tanks of gas have gone thru, i had to regap the valves, which was straightforward and easy, if you follow directions on the manual.</div><div>
</div><div>
</div>
Old 05-16-2012, 08:10 PM
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ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Amen to that.I usually fully deflect a control surface and run clear sellotape evenly along the underside.

Just bought a new saito fg57.Are there any threads or forums with info to read before i set it up and run it? tried the first thirty pages of the gas forum and no luck so far,cheers all.
Howdy there old fart . Your getting a collection of nice engines . Did you finaly bump off that rich ol relitive ? Let us know how it goes when you fire her up . Good to see all the new gassers being released . Imagine the fuel bill if that thing ran on glow fuel. Cheers the pope
Old 05-16-2012, 08:22 PM
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I have a foolproof way of installing CA hinges if anyone's interested.... off topic I know.

Thanks,

Ernie Misner
Old 05-16-2012, 09:49 PM
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ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner

I have a foolproof way of installing CA hinges if anyone's interested.... off topic I know.

Thanks,

Ernie Misner
I would be very interested. Would like to compare your method with mine.
Old 05-16-2012, 10:20 PM
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First keep in mind that there are a couple of things that will make CA hinges fail. Overcome these and there will not be a failure. Sharp globs or crystals of CA on the hinge line will cut the hinge and make them break. A surface that is too tight and binding will cause a failure. If the CA did not wick down into the base of the hinge they can pull out.

Okay.... fold each hinge making a crease in the center, then go over that crease line with a color crayon. CA will not stick to that center line then.

Make a mark in the center of each hinge slot.

Drill a little 1/16th" hole where those marks are.

Optional - take a pencil type soldering iron with a sharp pointed tip and burn a tiny "funnel" opening on each hole that you just drilled. That works great with the excess covering material right there and when you are finished it gives it a look that makes everyone think you have used Robart hinges.

Put a tip on your CA bottle that has a short piece of spaghetti tubing OR use an eye dropper type of CA applicator with very fine tip on it and load with CA. With this setup you can actually count the drops as they go in and it doen't get away from you and run down the airplane.

Glue all the hinges into just the movable parts such as aileron, elevator, etc. by applying 7 or 8 drops of CA into just the holes you've drilled. (it goes down and wicks everywhere except on the hinge line)

Push these parts into the airplane half and use a small pin to set a tiny amount of gap as or if needed. Apply 7 or 8 drops of CA into the holes on the airplane half and you're done.

If you buy a plane used and it has sharp excess CA crystals on the hinge lines, take a toothbrush and acetone and scrub those center lines clean before they break.

Ernie Misner
Old 05-17-2012, 03:58 AM
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Ern, this is what I use on CA hinges, it is super strong and will pull the wood out before it gives up but is flexible enough to bend without breaking. Hobby-Lobby carries although they have a habit of dropping their best products just when you decide to order something. Can't post picture, it's called Superphatic.
Old 05-17-2012, 04:40 AM
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YUP will not get it for two weeks yet and shipping from the states is about a hundred bucks near as we can figure.Still only 900 bucks tho compared to heaps(1500)a couple of years back.Did'nt realize at first how good they swing big props,was always a horsepower freak and wanted to be really frightened by the 300 nitro engine
Old 05-17-2012, 04:46 AM
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ORIGINAL: the pope


ORIGINAL: Old Fart

Amen to that.I usually fully deflect a control surface and run clear sellotape evenly along the underside.

Just bought a new saito fg57.Are there any threads or forums with info to read before i set it up and run it? tried the first thirty pages of the gas forum and no luck so far,cheers all.
Howdy there old fart . Your getting a collection of nice engines . Did you finaly bump off that rich ol relitive ? Let us know how it goes when you fire her up . Good to see all the new gassers being released . Imagine the fuel bill if that thing ran on glow fuel. Cheers the pope
Hey good to hear from you mate,got any ideas what i can stick it in?and don't say bend over.Look at the you tube p47/fg57 link,piss ugly aeroplane but sure sounds good on the way past cheers mate
Old 05-19-2012, 04:34 AM
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Hello everyone. I'm already on the Fox forum, but did not realize there was one for my favorite 4-strokes.

Started with a 91 and a few weeks ago, after approx 300 flights the rod brinelled to the crank pin. It overheated the first flight with the cowl installed on the Skybolt and I developed a smaller version of cooling we use on full size aircraft. After polishing the bottom end that motor put 280 or more flights under the wheels before this happened again. I was a bit disappointed Saito did not bush this rod as IMO, it would have been much more durable and easy to fix. As it is I replaced the rod, along with a new ring, gasket set and Boca bearings.

During the fix I finally got round to moving the vent to under the cam housing. I shortened a metric set screw and glued it into the stock outlet in the rear cover and installed the vent fitting into a tapped hole in the casting. It seemed relatively thick, (compared to some of my 2-stroke pump installations) and that was glued in as well.

I fired it up last weekend and it was as well behaved as always. Am taking it to the club opener in a few minutes to get it back airborne.

Since that one I have accumulated a few OS Surpass 90 class motors, but my choices go to the 100, pair of 125a's and the 150 picked up along the way. The second 125 was quickly grabbed at a local swap meet, (for $60!!!!!!) since it had a cross threaded glow plug hole). The damned thing looked very low time and I figured worst case for that price it would still be good for spares if the plug hole is not repairable.

Right now I'm looking for a 56 for my next project and I expect that one to be just as strong and reliable as the others.
Old 05-19-2012, 04:37 AM
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Forgot to add that after 300 or so flights the 91 was starting to look a bit gobbed up. A few hours in the glycol filled crock pot and it came out like new. Even the heavily caked exhaust was shiny!
Old 05-19-2012, 05:31 PM
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Hi everyone,

Just a quick question. I need a close right-angle adapter for my Saito 56. I see some on the HH website, but none fit the 56 except for a right-angle manifold. I'm looking more for something like a close-machined manifold like I got for my Saito .82 if it exists... I'm having trouble uploading the picture of what I want... maybe you can read my mind

Keep getting an internal server error.... that's a first for me

Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Bob

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