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Old 06-05-2012, 05:22 AM
  #22151  
w8ye
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ORIGINAL: Cougar429

I took a diameter rod that fits into one of the lifter holes and tapered the end. This fits a hole Saito already has in one cam face and will hold the cam aligned when dropping it down on the motor. If you look from the rear with the end cap off and ensure the crank rod is pointed straight up while dropping on the cam housing it should fall in line.

p.s. I have not had a reply from Rv7garage on his 62. Anyone else have one spare in good condition?
This rod trick does not work on the engines with mushroom lifters like the 120S, 150S, 180, & 220 engines. On these engines you must use the shim stock or razor blade.

Old 06-05-2012, 05:28 AM
  #22152  
Hobbsy
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That's the trick I use but only twice so far.
Old 06-05-2012, 07:28 AM
  #22153  
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Thanks, w8ye. I have a 91, 100, a pair of 125a's and so far have only opened up the 91 and rebuilt a friends 56. I also have a 150, but that one never had a bolt turned or fired up yet.

On the 56, my friend had it quit in flight and when I opened it up one cam tooth was gone. It stopped there so consequently had no compression. Installed a new cam and lifters, crank gear, bearings and gasket set and once reassembled I found the cam would produce an audible click as it rolled forward once over each cam high point. Never really noticed this on any of my other Saitos and could not figure out why. He has since fired it up and it runs fine.

He bought the motor with very low time and the only thing I could think of regarding the cam is that motor had done a goat in the past, (ate dirt) or a lean run at high power had it do the sudden stop.

Anyone see this before or have any ideas?
Old 06-05-2012, 07:34 AM
  #22154  
w8ye
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It is rare to break a cam tooth but it does happen. Someone has it on here about once a year. It happens on all sizes of Saitos.

The click is normal
Old 06-05-2012, 10:00 AM
  #22155  
mike early
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My .91 broke the tooth on the crankshaft, somehow...
Old 06-05-2012, 02:50 PM
  #22156  
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With regards to locating and locking cams in place the RCM Saito red book (on repairs etc) shows a series of very simple tools to suit various series of Saitos that really work. And I am speaking from experience here.  I have mentioned this book before the only draw back / deficiency is it doesn't feature the more modern engines.  But is simple to adapt and the book is still available.
BTB they make a similar one for OS engines
Old 06-05-2012, 07:40 PM
  #22157  
zt1855
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that seems so cool!
Old 06-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #22158  
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FNQ that book sounds interesting re the tools.If you like shoot me an email@ [email protected] cheers mate
Old 06-06-2012, 08:43 AM
  #22159  
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Something I do not understand is why the manufacturers aren't taking advantage of one of the fundamental characteristics of man (male) and that is that we men (maybe women too - but I've never been one, so can't say) is that we love buying into modularized systems. Said red book, mentioned previously in this thread, would be a big seller here in the USA if it was well stocked and the price kept reasonable.

Harley Davidson motorcycles sells the Sportster with the 883cc engine as the baseline engine. You can buy kits to upgrade said Sportster to an engine of over 1200cc's, IIRC. Again, a modularized approach.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-06-2012, 09:32 AM
  #22160  
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ORIGINAL: NM2K
Something I do not understand is why the manufacturers aren't taking advantage of one of the fundamental characteristics of man (male) and that is that we men (maybe women too - but I've never been one, so can't say) is that we love buying into modularized systems. Said red book, mentioned previously in this thread, would be a big seller here in the USA if it was well stocked and the price kept reasonable.

Harley Davidson motorcycles sells the Sportster with the 882cc engine as the baseline engine. You can buy kits to upgrade said Sportster to an engine of over 1200cc's, IIRC. Again, a modularized approach.

Ed Cregger
The model engine companies have been evolving towards the disposable engine concept.Where if something goes wrong, you throw it away and get a new one. The marketing people get involved with the planned obsolescence of the engines by having the designers constantly change something, obstensively, to make it better than the older engine, so you'll be inticed to buy the new one. Some companies tend to "encourage" this too, by having very expensive parts and or lack of parts,.so you'll be "encouraged" to buy a new engine instead of repairing the old one. Of course Saito has been providing parts so they aren't one of those companies though.

But since it has been more or less proven already, everyone would want the bored out high perf version right off the bat. So the base model would not be selling very well at all. You can see that effect on people with a .20 engine versus the .25 engine. If yopu present the user with a choice betwen a .20 and a .25 engine, the buyer will invariably go for the .25 because of its perceived performance edge. A similar thing happens with the .28 which people bought over the .25. That led to the .32 which sold over the .28 and on to the .35 which sold over the .32's and on to the .36's which tend to sell better than the .35's do. So people would want the bored out high perf version and turn their noses up at the base version.

But then a Saito engine with extra high compression, a full race cam, larger carb, plus being bored out more too, would likely be almost unuseable to the average modeller as it won't be any fun to use, unless you were pylon racing. It is quite common to see someone, who doesn't know better, try to use a pylon racing engine for sport flying and then complain about how crappy the engine is and how poorly it runs and it doesn't develop any power.



Old 06-06-2012, 12:11 PM
  #22161  
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The trouble with all those books is that they are obsolete before you get it off the shelf. I never buy em.
Old 06-06-2012, 01:05 PM
  #22162  
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You can't get most guys to read the engine manual, which is a few pages at the most. How are you going to get them to read a whole book??? Maybe if they add some alluring pictures....
Old 06-06-2012, 01:37 PM
  #22163  
Ernie Misner
 
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We soon learn to look at the weight when considering a larger engine as well as any perceived power increase. Or we should be.

Ernie Misner
Old 06-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #22164  
NM2K
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ORIGINAL: earlwb

ORIGINAL: NM2K
Something I do not understand is why the manufacturers aren't taking advantage of one of the fundamental characteristics of man (male) and that is that we men (maybe women too - but I've never been one, so can't say) is that we love buying into modularized systems. Said red book, mentioned previously in this thread, would be a big seller here in the USA if it was well stocked and the price kept reasonable.

Harley Davidson motorcycles sells the Sportster with the 882cc engine as the baseline engine. You can buy kits to upgrade said Sportster to an engine of over 1200cc's, IIRC. Again, a modularized approach.

Ed Cregger
The model engine companies have been evolving towards the disposable engine concept. Where if something goes wrong, you throw it away and get a new one. The marketing people get involved with the planned obsolescence of the engines by having the designers constantly change something, obstensively, to make it better than the older engine, so you'll be inticed to buy the new one. Some companies tend to ''encourage'' this too, by having very expensive parts and or lack of parts,.so you'll be ''encouraged'' to buy a new engine instead of repairing the old one. Of course Saito has been providing parts so they aren't one of those companies though.

But since it has been more or less proven already, everyone would want the bored out high perf version right off the bat. So the base model would not be selling very well at all. You can see that effect on people with a .20 engine versus the .25 engine. If yopu present the user with a choice betwen a .20 and a .25 engine, the buyer will invariably go for the .25 because of its perceived performance edge. A similar thing happens with the .28 which people bought over the .25. That led to the .32 which sold over the .28 and on to the .35 which sold over the .32's and on to the .36's which tend to sell better than the .35's do. So people would want the bored out high perf version and turn their noses up at the base version.

But then a Saito engine with extra high compression, a full race cam, larger carb, plus being bored out more too, would likely be almost unuseable to the average modeller as it won't be any fun to use, unless you were pylon racing. It is quite common to see someone, who doesn't know better, try to use a pylon racing engine for sport flying and then complain about how crappy the engine is and how poorly it runs and it doesn't develop any power.





Ah, but think of the sales leap that Saito would experienced if they sold the basic engine and then offered the high perf stuff you mentioned as part of a modular block of optional gear.

Disposable engines won't sell for folks buying Saito engines. Granted, some of the cheaper brands sell just fine that way, but I just don't see Saito being considered disposable.


Ed Cregger
Old 06-06-2012, 03:23 PM
  #22165  
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ORIGINAL: NM2K


ORIGINAL: earlwb

ORIGINAL: NM2K
Something I do not understand is why the manufacturers aren't taking advantage of one of the fundamental characteristics of man (male) and that is that we men (maybe women too - but I've never been one, so can't say) is that we love buying into modularized systems. Said red book, mentioned previously in this thread, would be a big seller here in the USA if it was well stocked and the price kept reasonable.

Harley Davidson motorcycles sells the Sportster with the 882cc engine as the baseline engine. You can buy kits to upgrade said Sportster to an engine of over 1200cc's, IIRC. Again, a modularized approach.

Ed Cregger
The model engine companies have been evolving towards the disposable engine concept. Where if something goes wrong, you throw it away and get a new one. The marketing people get involved with the planned obsolescence of the engines by having the designers constantly change something, obstensively, to make it better than the older engine, so you'll be inticed to buy the new one. Some companies tend to ''encourage'' this too, by having very expensive parts and or lack of parts,.so you'll be ''encouraged'' to buy a new engine instead of repairing the old one. Of course Saito has been providing parts so they aren't one of those companies though.

But since it has been more or less proven already, everyone would want the bored out high perf version right off the bat. So the base model would not be selling very well at all. You can see that effect on people with a .20 engine versus the .25 engine. If yopu present the user with a choice betwen a .20 and a .25 engine, the buyer will invariably go for the .25 because of its perceived performance edge. A similar thing happens with the .28 which people bought over the .25. That led to the .32 which sold over the .28 and on to the .35 which sold over the .32's and on to the .36's which tend to sell better than the .35's do. So people would want the bored out high perf version and turn their noses up at the base version.

But then a Saito engine with extra high compression, a full race cam, larger carb, plus being bored out more too, would likely be almost unuseable to the average modeller as it won't be any fun to use, unless you were pylon racing. It is quite common to see someone, who doesn't know better, try to use a pylon racing engine for sport flying and then complain about how crappy the engine is and how poorly it runs and it doesn't develop any power.





Ah, but think of the sales leap that Saito would experienced if they sold the basic engine and then offered the high perf stuff you mentioned as part of a modular block of optional gear.

Disposable engines won't sell for folks buying Saito engines. Granted, some of the cheaper brands sell just fine that way, but I just don't see Saito being considered disposable.


Ed Cregger
Saitos are not disposable engines in my opinion either, but you gotta have some disposable income ($$$) to afford them.
Old 06-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #22166  
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With regards to the Saito red book.  As I have previously stated it was produced by the now departed Radio Control Modeller.  Regarding relavence, it is very applicable for all the models of engine listed most of which are still on sale around the world and of course it covers such types as the 65 and 50 to name 2 that are no longer produced.  I use mine a lot copy pages for others (I don't lend it already had one disappear) and it holds a very useful place in my workshop library.
Old 06-08-2012, 10:57 AM
  #22167  
mike early
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It would be so wonderful if you could share the pages of that book with the rest of us. The folks on this forum would love you.

If you could scan it I could host the pages on our club's website server space so you could send the link to whomever you like.
Old 06-08-2012, 01:06 PM
  #22168  
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Hey Mike and all, a spec. I would like to find in a book or elsewhere, is the exact size (probably metric) of the O-ring's that go into the head with the intake manifold. How can I find out the exact size for the Saito 82 or 125? Then I could just order a bunch of them without having to buy the whole gasket set. I realize I can take an old one and purchase something that looks about the same..... but it would be awesome to have the exact specs. The one that goes in the head I think is identical to the one at the carb end of the manifold except that it is a Viton or high temp type. The one in the head should be replaced each year, that's why I ask.

Thanks,

Ernie Misner
Old 06-08-2012, 01:07 PM
  #22169  
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I have a Saito 150 that is spiting fuel out of the needle valve area. Is there a seal there that can be replaced?
Old 06-08-2012, 01:10 PM
  #22170  
Ernie Misner
 
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Yes, should be an o-ring on the needle itself. You can buy the carb gasket set separately from the engine gasket set which is nice.

Ernie Misner
Old 06-08-2012, 03:52 PM
  #22171  
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I don't see a place for an O ring.
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Old 06-08-2012, 03:56 PM
  #22172  
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I found it down inside the bar assembly.
Old 06-08-2012, 05:05 PM
  #22173  
N1EDM
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If you are looking for the timing tool, here is a graphic of it (as well as the cover of the book). I made one up out of 2mm ID x 4mm OD tubing and a piece of 2mm steel wire. I've also heard of guys just using the pushrod (after the cam follower had been removed) for the same purpose but I can't speak to how reliable that trick is.

The book itself mostly refers to older model Saitos although there is a lot of good, general technical information in there.

Bob
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:45 PM
  #22174  
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Yep, it goes right here.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:33 PM
  #22175  
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I've replaced them with whatever the hardware had in the same size. Maybe i've just been lucky.


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