sawooten

My Feedback: (6)

I recently purchased a brand new spectrum DX6I from my local hobby store and installed it in my great planes cap 232 27% and lanier extra 330 94" ws and took to the skies with my brand new 2.4 spectrum system..... Horizon released a news bulitten a while back saying the stick potentiometers were malfunctioning in the DX6I models and were recalling certain date codes.... my radio didnt fall into this date code so I was confident in my new products and took to the air with no worries..... approx 5 min into flying my brand new lanier extra on her maiden flight on final approach she all the sudden full throtteled, inverted lost control and crashed into the air..... the radio completely lost control of the aircraft in mid air..... this destroyed my hightech 5985 servos, bent the crank on my 3w 75i motor and completely destroyed the airplane..... thinking that the plane was new and completely blown away at the sight that had just happened before my eyes we chalked the crash up to bad batteries or loose connection..... a little later in the afternoon Itook to the skies with my cap 232 (which I had flown a thousand times with a 72mhz radio with no problems at all and flown 3 other times with the dx6i) 15 sec after takeoff it did the same thing as the extra.... i had no control over the aircraft and it spun into the ground at full throttle also destorying everything..... both of these events were witnessed by multiple long time pilotswho were in shock that both planes did excatlythe same thing due to the faulty radioI contacted horizon hobbies this morning with hopes that they would do something about this horrible malfunction that could only have occured from their radio... which coincidently had been on recall a year earlier for the same problem..... But no I was told that I was just screwed.... they were not going to do anything about my planes and didnt care that I saved for a year and a half to buy these planes and spent 2 months building them and now have nothing due to their faulty equipment.... they just dont care about there customers and will sell you a piece of crap that will destroy your personal property and dont even care...... thanks horizon hobbies...... I guess I was just early retired from the hobby due to you destroying 3500 dollars if not more in my airplanes and refusing to do anything about it...... I will never buy another horizon product again and I am putting this on here and every other thread I can find to warn everyone not to purchase horizon products because your just another face in the crowd to them they dont stand behing there prodicts and refuse to take care of there customers......

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Flying a second airplane with a known bad radio was just a bit silly wasn't it?

Horizon has no way to know if you flew the airplane into the ground or the radio did it.

I hate that you lost the first one, the second one was on you.

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

no it really wasnt his fault at all ... I have flown both planes and I was at the sticks of the extra for her maiden, when she went in.. the preflight and range checks were perfect for both planes.. Im not an idiot, or a slouchy flier,, the tx has an intermentant problem..



RACE

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

Horizon has a very well deserved reputation for way above average customer service.
If you're looking for a radio manufacturer/distributor that would reimburse you for the financial loss you suffered because of what you said happened you should just have a yard sale, because not a one of them would consider it.
What would happen if everytime someone had a problem they were convinced was the radio's, the airplanes, whatever, if they just said 'Oh, okay, send us a bill for both destroyed airplanes. You now what would happen, they'd be out of business, WAY out of business.Or, it would cost us all l1500 bucks for every basic radio system.
Hey, you may have had a problem, though the radio had a recall once has in my opinion nothing to do with it.
What I would ask for Horizon to do is take the radio and check it out thoroughly on the bench until they get it to fail, they will gladly because they don't want anymore calls like this one.
The only other thing you can do is enlist the help of an independent electrical/radio whizz, like Pete Walters from Michigan if he's still doing it, he was a great guy who wrote for R/C Report. . This guy was GOOD, if fully retired maybe he'd give you a recommendation.
Asking him or any other technician to take your side, write you a letter, in other words getting them involved in between you and the ,all of it.
Say it'd been intermittent and see what happens.
Lastly- This sounds ominously to me like the receiver wasn't bound...or it was then it wasn't......Look over your manual and tell us if maybe that could've happened. You'll know the spot that warns of it when you read it . Note the part about fiberglass fuselages , which I'd gather to mean other composites as well. Did you just have a receiver in each plane or what ? Which model of receiver ?
They should replace or repair the radio IF a problem is found. Anything further they shouldn't, and they can't. Not because of they aren't a good. customer oriented company, they sure as heck are, because of the disreputable jerks who would take advantage of it.
And check that manual. Doug

sawooten

My Feedback: (6)

well first off Mastertech.... I put the second plane up as I explained in my first post because the first plane was its maiden flight so we werent sure what caused the crash.... could have been anything i.e.... bad battery, bad connection or wiring.... anything.... however when two airplanes one of which had been flown on a JR 72mhz radio perfectly for a couple months now..... when they both experience the same problem it seems the malfunction can only be attributed to the tx..... a tx which specktrum has coincidentaly had to recall in the past for the same issue..... so dont act like i am an idiot or a bad pilot..... I had multiple senior very experienced pilots standing next to me the entire time and everyone has the same conclusion..... its not pilot error its specktrums tx and naturally Horizon doesnt care that they sold me a faulty product that destroyed my only aircraft and that I spent a year and a half saving for them and building them...... Im just one of thousands of customers so I dont matter to them..... but this is one very very dissatisfied customer who isnt going to just roll over...... I for one and I know many others that are with me.... will never purchase another horizon product and I will be seeking legal counsel and reporting them to the BBB...... you cannot sell someone a faulty product that you know you have had problems with.... hence the "RECALL".....

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

So ?
You and they have no clue that the problem has a thing to do with the recall.
How many of them know that Spektrum requires a different receiver if used in a composite fuselage ?
The Lanier...not balsa or foam is it ? How about that Extra ? What IS that Extra fuselage made of ? Not fiberglass is it ?
These are just possibilities, but it's funny you didn't mention what receivers you used, whether you just swapped out the first one after the crash (certainly not, not with all those 'old hands' around) or what ?
Please, now you're just lashing out like a litigious brat. You're saying they'd do that on purpose ? Then you don't have two brain cells to rub together.
My sympathy has transformed to "tough feces". You have NO CLUE that was the problem so you're just throwing stones.but this is one very very dissatisfied customer who isnt going to just roll over
Yup...that's Horizon, all about dominance and submission. Hey, it probably doesn't hurt once you get used to it.
Let's hear about those receivers. And an opinion from an independent technician, because you have nothing but a guess, an uneducated one at that.
Not as many as are finding lights flashing on your theorizing. Doug

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

doug you sound like total moron.. both planes were fitted with AR6200 RX's both oriented on different planes in the aircraft.. and yeah, I know exactly how to mount,install,bind a spectrum RX..I have used them in my comp-arf planes (with zero problems).. and doug you should do your homework befor making stupid comments.. the LANIER EXTRA and GREAT PLANES CAP 232 are both built up planes, lite ply and balsa.. not fiber or composite...

and lets talk about the funtana's and the 35% extra 260 both planes were sold( in great numbers) with a known problem of glue joints being grossly overlooked some with maybe a few drop of glue in the entire wing ( yes I have owned and crashed both planes do to wing failures) so DOUG, another point proven by HH's great service......... yes they will sell a faulty product to a consumer and then blame the failure to a poorly built airframe(poorly built meaning that the owner of the arf didnt check every square inch of the plane during assembly so WHEN it fails its on our dime not HH) yeah ask me how I know that... HH will try to toss the blame on us for one reason or another..

just because it didnt have anything to do with the paticular recall on HH website.. whats not to say that his TX wasnt affected by something along those lines.. the pots failing... just like the first huge batch of failures..


doug I belive your the biggest keyboard warrior out there.. so dont post your stupid BS on this thread just because you think you'll look cool because you can one up a noob..

last but not least.. do searches on HH and H9 and JR and spektrum failures and major problems... yes there are a lot of them and there is alot of angry people becasue of what HH has told them "HEY TOUGH LUCK" because of there neat little clause that says "we are not responsible for collateral damages" when they should be 100% because of the crap they sell.. im sure it will only be a matter of time befor one of HH's faulty products end up killing someone


RACE

Doug47

My Feedback: (24)

Ahhh yes.
Nothing like being "schooled" by an idiot.
So, go on and buy another brand that will warranty crash damage because of what you think happened.
"Keyboard warrior ?". You don't even know me, if you met me you'd likely have a different take.If you were smart. But wait...you;re the one who "knew" you had a radio problem but you made the staggeringly stupid decision to try it again !
What I brought up were possibilities other than what you automatically knew...which you don't.
You were countered because you slandered an excellent company, the most customer responsive big company in our life time. Behind a monitor again, a classic characteristic of a *****.
See, kitty boy, evidence is required in court. You have conjecture and uneducated guesses, with a flat dumb move for a chaser. Horizon, like they'd bother with you (meow.meow.) has evidence of your slander right here.
So, siamese or whatever you are. Get a life. And...some glue . Doug aka-Keyboard warrior".

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

I never said you were an idiot or a bad pilot, I said you did a silly thing. We've all done silly things at the flying field. Like Flying a second airplane with a possibly faulty transmitter.

I'll give you a hint.

Never fly a new radio in an airplane you care about. Keep an old trainer/sport plane around for testing new radio equipment. Fly it like you stole it for 30 flights.

Given your adamant stance against Horizon I doubt they'll try to do anything to keep you as a customer.

If I had a customer at my front counter screaming at me like your post you'd be asked to leave and never come back on my property. Now if you'd come in and explained the problem in a rational calm manor I'd do whatever I could within reason to help you, I bet they will as well. I understand your frustration but blasting a company in a public forum then threatening legal action gets you one response from most any company.

"All further contact will go to our Lawyer"

I've no doubt you have a transmitter problem, given the cost of a new transmitter versus a new plane, I'd never fly that transmitter again.

Given the airplane went to full throttle and crashed tells me you possibly didn't have failsafe programed correctly.

N241MZ

I have a comment, first all buy a JR or Futaba, these in my opion the best computer radios manufactered, and secondly I sure would of checked out  the placement of the attennas in the aircraft you must make sure they are placed right or you will have a crash for sure

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

where did refering to cats come into play here.. and again you have nothing even remotely constructive to add.. kitty boy meow meow.. did one of your control line WARBIRDS or your msr/mcx hit you in your head????? probably..

I like mastertechs response.. very positive...

but sawooten is a good friend of mine and I may step on his toes a little bit here.. both planes were setup by me (just like I have many many times) and we had many many good flights on the cap 232 both planes blipped the throttle and went in at an idle the only RPM they gained was when they were on the way to the ground... after the planes were setup, I re-bound both RX's.. so the fail safes should have gone to a complete nuetral... the cap rotated went straight up, slight bank right and went out and literally slipped straight back to the ground....the extra was on final at a slight left bank with about a quater throttle or less.. and completely rolled over and went in inverted wing first (( it got so slow, after I had lost the plane.. it wing stalled and went in))


so please you big ole' kitty cat referrin to, huge, tuff tough guy.. I should shakin in boots over.. please retort to that and tell me what a dunce I am...

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

I agree 100% with you I fly with a JR 7202 and have had everything from the 12x, 10x, and futaba fg12 an now all I fly is simple JR 72mhz..

both rx satelites were oriented differently.. like main rx at 3 and 9 parralle to the ground.. and the second satelite on the canopy rail as far away from the rx as possible.. when I was very new to the 2.4g I actually placed both right next to each other with a flight logger and recorded over 800 fades no the way I set mine up on a bad day,, I may get.. 25-60

sawooten

My Feedback: (6)

First off doug..... you talk about get some experience..... your page says your just a rook yourself and I know race has been flying since you were still crapping your diapers.....


secound doug...... I talked to a rep of HH and they admit the TX was more than likely at fault for the crashes......Hence the RECALL on the same TX last year for the same problem


now to answer everyone else....


I nor anyone else I fly with are morons.... we didnt go pick up the RX from a crashed plane shove it in another and take off again..... The Extra crashed and no one knew why.... could have been bad batteries for all we knew.... had no clue...... UNTILTHE2ND PLANEWENTDOWNTHESAMEWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its interesting that the only thing the two planes had in common was the DX6I,,,,, ergo common sense says the TX had to be the cause of the crashes..... especially with the known problems with them in the past and them admitting that the problems I described sounds as if the TX failed and there was no way for me to know it was coming or prevent it......

And yes they should be responsible for collateral damage....... If they were making computers for 737's and one crashed due to there faulty equipment and took out a neighborhood..... u think the company could just say..... Sorry rebuild your own houses..... not my problem...... H*** No they couldnt so they are responsible for my planes one way or the other

sawooten

My Feedback: (6)

well matertech I did start off nice.... but when a rep tells me that its not there problem and they admit that there TX is more than likely at fault for the accident they are not going to replace my planes.....

which is horse crap.....

like I said before you cannot make a $200 product and not back it up...... especially when some people have 10's of thousands of dollars worth of aircraft on them....


and I know all of the legalities involved with this.... hence me contacting my attorney..... and if there TX is found to be the fault for the crash due to faulty wiring, factory defects, etc..... they are responsible for replacing everything it damages..... why else would anyone recall things..... they would just let it break on people and say oh well.....

this is not only unethical but it is also illegal..... and I am not slandering them at all


its called freedom of speech and all I am doing is warning others not to get screwed over by this company because they dont care about there customers enough to stand by there products..... alot of good it does to replace or repair the most inexpensive part of my completely destroyed airplanes......

if the shoe was on the other foot and you had been through what I had this weekend you wouldnt be making the comments you did..... so for the record I was very polite and respectful to the rep from HH I spoke to this morning until no matter what I said even with them admitting the TX was more than likely the problem it wasnt there problem and I am just S*** out of luck

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Good luck with your endeavor.

Oh and BTW, there is no freedom of speech here.

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

hahaha nice!! and your right 100% everyone has something to say weather right, wrong, stupid, or hateful... meow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sawooten

My Feedback: (6)

thanks


and I am pretty sure the constitution overrides anything you think you know....


good day sir

racelikustolit3k

My Feedback: (73)

[quote]ORIGINAL: sawooten

First off doug..... you talk about get some experience..... your page says your just a rook yourself and I know race has been flying since you were still crapping your diapers.....
[quote]ORIGINAL: Doug47

now I dont know about all of that..... doug seems to be one of our OLDER members.. but really likes small planes and even smaller heli's....that sr is handful isnt it [sm=thumbup.gif] oh yeah ""ooh-rah"" you old ""Teufel Hunden""

psb667

[&:]

GotSky

"final approach she all the sudden full throtteled, inverted lost control and crashed into the air.."

Couldn't have been that bad if it only crashed into the "air" LOL... I kid, I kid, sorry for your loss and I hope you get it all worked out. There is nothing worse then buying something new to replace something that worked fine only to have that new something cause problems.. Good Luck!

VKGT

You know, instead of offering up good advice or something of value, you come on to post insults? Have some sympathy for the guy, he lost two airplanes in one day and it sure sounds to me like the radio could be at fault. Of course due to the nature of the beast, it's difficult to prove it after the fact unless Horizon can find an issue with the radio, and in the case that they do, maybe provide some sort of compensation in the form of new ARFs or something...anything.

N241MZ has a point, I've only ever run JR or Futaba since that is what I have been using for years. Although it doesn't mean much, the Spektrum Radios have always felt cheap to me and I have stayed away from them for that reason. To a point, I believe that you get what you pay for.

Anyway, good luck with finding the radio bug and I hope that something good can come of this bad situation!

koastrc

Perhaps this is going to turn into one of those my stuff is better than your stuff. Out on the line, flight line that is. You see all kinds of radios. As one of those guys that help folks learn to fly. I now find myself learning about all sorts of new radios.
Advice on this and other forums is pretty cheap and at times not so good. Here is my advice. If you are a high dollar flyer. Get yourself a good trainer. Put all your high dollar equipment in said trainer and fly it. If you fly gas. Put a gas engine on the trainer, they make them. This old man has flown them all. They are the same and they are all different. For years we cried abiut the radio equipment not wokring with other brands. Well here we so once more.
Sorry for the lost of your planes. I fear there will be many more go down in our rush to the new 2.4. Like the old man said. There is two kind of radios. Ones that work and ones that don't. Good luk with HH.

telejojo

I have a DX7 I use for foamy's and my small cheap planes but my jet and big airplanes I use Futaba FG12.Never would I trust my good planes to a cheap 6 ch. radio.........

emt356

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry to hear about your loss sawooten. I have seen alot of folks at the field with 2.4 issues and I have been so reluctant to go to 2.4... I'll keep my good ole 72mhz futabas. Hope you get things worked out with Horizon

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

I had the same problem with my DX6i but it turned out it was a "brown out" in the battery area. 4 individual cells with 8 terminals is asking for a disaster (why do you think they finally went to a real plug in type battery pack on the DX7?). My DX6i (and DX5) acted fine on the bind, range check and taxi, but in the air, it cost me a F22, Cub, Low wing trainer and a P-51. (For all you critics, I also had two "more" experienced pilots help me with range check and bind before flight). The death of a few of those planes is on my photo gallery. The F22 buried itself so deep in the ground, all you can see is the BACK side of the firewall. That jet took a high altitude death spiral and then started drilling for oil.

I lost 4 planes (2 to a DX5 and 2 to a DX6i) from an issue where in flight if I was holding my radio like a 1/2 pounder hamburger, the pressure of my fingers on that back panel would move one of the cells just enough to where it would lose connectivity and then the bind. If you notice, the pressure to keep those cells in place isn't the best PLUS, depending on where you live, the humidity is a factor on those terminals. These is a high pitch beep when that happens but if you are in a landing or close pass, the noise from your plane will drown out that sound not to mention that I don't hear as well as I did years ago. I never heard it in flight (and crashes). Using a good magnifying glass, we finally could see minuscule build up (call it corrosion) on one of the terminals which I sanded off with an emery cloth. That actually didn't fully cure the problem because the trick was to leave the engine off, and then emulate flying while it was on the ground and then and ONLY then would the position of my hands on the radio, could I replicate the problem. I finally asked the LHS and a wise flying sage told me to try a product called Corrosive X and it worked like a charm.

This might not be the answer because my problem was somewhat intermittent and I had to force, if I may use that term, my problem and actually found it just by accident. Your crashes seem more of a complete loss of bind rather than the movement of a control stick. The "throttle up" you mentioned doesn't correlate much to losing bind UNLESS the plane is bound with WOT on cut off?

Anyway, I treated both my 4 cell Spektrum radios and never had the problem again. It DOESN'T hurt to take and "roll' those 4 cells 180 degrees or so every once in a while to freshen up their connection. (that shouldn't be a requirement but I'm speaking from experience, not professionalism). If you want to keep using your DX6i, treat the entire battery area with that Corrosive X. It's perfectly safe for the entire electronic area and it worked on my radios.

I also saved my sheckles and upgraded to a DX7 but my DX6i worked flawlessly after I took care of the battery area issues. I had two of them and after the "doctoring", they performed excellent.

Hope this helps. Sorry for you loss. Those planes look SOOOO sad when they eat dirt.