Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > M.A.A.C.
Reload this Page >

The MAAC Paradigm

Notices
M.A.A.C. Discuss Model Aeronautics Association of Canada policies, decisions & any other MAAC related topics here.

The MAAC Paradigm

Old 06-26-2005, 08:27 AM
  #1  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default The MAAC Paradigm

* the majority of MAAC members join MAAC for the insurance, "you have to have MAAC to fly here"
* the majority of MAAC members fly for fun, fly for recreation.
* the majority of MAAC members fly R/C.
* the majority of MAAC members do not participate in formal model airplane competitions or air sports.
* the majority of MAAC members are not concerned about model aviation records
* the majority of MAAC members do not go to zone meeetings.
* the majority of MAAC members are not concerned about the advancment of model aviation, they are flying for fun or out there to have fun, one simple thing, go out to the flying field and have fun, relax......shoot the breeze, may not even fly
* the majority of new MAAC members fly r/c, buy arfs.

Now the MAAC purpose and objects in the MAAC constitution:
[link=http://www.maac.ca/docs/doc_constitution_e.pdf]maac constitution[/link]

* act as a rep of the Aero Club of Canada to establish and maintain official regulations governing the condcut of model airplane records and contests and too issue sanctions for the same....
* to foster and enhance, assist, aid, engage in and develop scientific advancment in the sport of model aeronautics.....
* to provide a central organization to record and disseminate information relation to model aeronatutics
* to publish scientific journals and new bullitens relation to model aeronautics
* to guide and direct national model activites to the end that model aerounatutics may be advanced........
* to direct the technical organiztion of national and interantional model aircraft contests.........
* to license model aircraft and fliers thereof for competition in accordance.......
* to have recoginzed by the Aero Club of Canada all official model aircraft compeition and records which are sanctioned by MAC
* to enable the holding of model aircraft contests witht ehsanction of MAAC.

MAAC is directed by it's constitution, not in step with the activites of today's membership, the majority do not take an active role in maac, did not join MAAC becasue they wanted to but had to, do not attend zone meetings to effect change, the few that do attend zone meetings do so to keep maac the same.

MAAC has a large operationing budget, if no insurance, then a huge drop in membership...
an interesting case.




Old 06-27-2005, 07:22 AM
  #2  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Wow!

Thanks for letting us know what the majority of modellers are thinking Kenny... I had no idea you had interviewed "the majority" ... or maybe you're just psychic? (psychotic?)

Did you also know that the majority of Canadians think the Liberal government is doing a fine job? At least I have stats to prove my statement....

By all means, the majority must be right....
Old 06-27-2005, 08:56 AM
  #3  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

you're welcome Jim,
the Liberals do well, they are able to adapt their goals to what the majority wants, one may not agree with them but the Liberal string of wins must say something.

But Jim, the point is not what I think, it is what is happening at maac clubs and fields accross Canada.

As for the MAAC stuff, the trend where aeromodelling in Canada is going is quite clear, some in MAAC wish to stay in denial.

For instance the MAAC events listed in MB - NW Ont zone - are 100% fun fly types [link=http://www.maac.ca/events/events.php?zn=d]MB NW ONT MAAC events[/link]
.
In SK Zone, 9 out of 12 are fun fly type,

the numbers suggest this is where the majority aeromodelling is going, no?
Old 06-27-2005, 10:00 AM
  #4  
Sharpy01
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Posted in another thread, but relavant to discussion here. AMA facing similar issues.

It's worth discussing because it is reality whether it suits some or not.



Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Li20975.jpg
Views:	21
Size:	324.5 KB
ID:	290631  
Old 06-27-2005, 10:07 AM
  #5  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

yup, even Dave Brown is able to look at reality,
MAAC has to look at reality at some time,

and this is not about fun verses compeyition as Jim would like to start that debate again, this is about what is happening now and what the memberhsip is doing now and what maac should be into.


BC - 49 maac events listed - 15 have formal maac competition but one class repeats itself throught the summer on 8 occasions "VGMC C/L Record Trials, open to all types of CL competition, models and events. No entry fee. Contact: C.D. Martin Higgs at 604-786-3417 after 6:00pm"
so basically 8 formal maac competition events out of 49 in BC.



Perhaps this event listing says it best to where things appear to be going.

June 25, 2005 — Come and join in the comradery of R/C Scale Aviation and celebrate the memory of a good friend and fellow scale modeler. Anyone with a sport or true scale airplane, big or small, new or old, is welcome to join us for this friendly event. No contests, no scores, no stress, all fun. June 25th & 26th - CFB Comox - Gate open 9am-5pm (Air Force Beach Parking Lot) Pilot registration by donation to the Comox Air Force Museum - Pre-registration not required. Concession available - MAAC mandatory - Event Director - Mike Benoit, ph 250-890-0458
Old 06-27-2005, 10:34 AM
  #6  
Jigley3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: dryden, ON, CANADA
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Do I sense A poll perhaps??????

bert
Old 06-27-2005, 10:35 AM
  #7  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: kenair
you're welcome Jim,
the Liberals do well, they are able to adapt their goals to what the majority wants, one may not agree with them but the Liberal string of wins must say something.
So ... I take it you are in agreement with their strategy, which appears to be "adapt your policy to your audience/most recent fad".

ORIGINAL: kenair
But Jim, the point is not what I think, it is what is happening at maac clubs and fields accross Canada.
Hmmnnn... I managed to visit several clubs over the past couple years, the biggest (most attendance) events I've seen are the Kitchener Scale Rally, the Chatham Scale Rally and the Quinte Jet Rally (IMAC events ceratainly appear to be the next largest events, with pockets of Scale combat emerging).
Does this mean that most modellers are exclusively Scale or Jet flyers? No.
Does it meant that many have an interest in these events? yes.

You must be careful how you draw conclusions.
Funflies are the easiest event to organize, the easiest to perpare for, and have the least requirements to participate in.
Are they popular? Of course, I enjoy thaem and would be hard pressed to think of anyone who wouldn't. We even encourage students to participate (with an Instructor and on buddy-box of course).

It can take me several years to prepare for a scale competition, weeks to prepare for a Scale Rally, minutes to prepare for a Funfly. Which do you think I attend more often?
Which do you think I get more enjoyment from?
Does my participation in one negate my interest in another?

You may recall from stats classes that you can jiggle the numbers to show any conclusion you wish.
You may also recall from physics classes that stats manipulation has zero impact on reality.
Old 06-27-2005, 10:50 AM
  #8  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Polls - the hard thing about a poll is who does it and what questions they ask. Jim's favorite party the Liberal's are very good with polls. no?

The last MAAC pool was done about 10 years ago and was ambigious and biased, for instance one of the questions was?
Do you support competition? of course everyone would say yes, so MAAC says every one support sompetition so let's not change.

What are the flyers in Dryden doing - do you feel MAAC reflects what the members from Dryden are into?
Why do flyers in Dryden join MAAC, what are the top four most important MAAC items to flyers in Dryden?
-ken
Old 06-27-2005, 12:59 PM
  #9  
Jigley3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: dryden, ON, CANADA
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Can't speak for all but if I was a betting man I would place my money on

1 Insurance
2 Insurance
3 Insurance
4 Insurance


Been in the club 20 or so years and in that time I am not aware of any of our members competing in anything more than an egg drop. Ask any member why should I join MAAC? The answer will invariably be insurance. The other main concerns has to be preservation of our frequencies and safety

bert
Old 06-27-2005, 01:26 PM
  #10  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

I view insurance as a given, frequencies as well.

But ... if that's all MAAC were to offer, I suggest the hobby would be in serious jeapardy ...
Old 06-27-2005, 02:04 PM
  #11  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm


ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

I view insurance as a given, frequencies as well.

But ... if that's all MAAC were to offer, I suggest the hobby would be in serious jeapardy ...
We are in tentative agreement here. In addition to providing insurance and frequency protection, MAAC, or some sort of local or regional organization, forces a degree of discipline upon the modelling population. People being people, without a "governing" organization there would be an unsafe and chaotic morass of modelling behaviours. No frequency discipline, no regard for disturbance, or risk to the population at large and no reasonably structured training process would exist. There would also be no cohesive competition rules, although that probably wouldn't bother a large number of modellers.

Old 06-27-2005, 02:45 PM
  #12  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Pinch me ...

Although it's probably true that a majority of modellers would not be affected by the lack of "cohesive competition rules", it's surprising how quickly that can change.

I was a typical dyed-in-the-wool burn, holes in the sky sport flyer until I saw my first pattern contest. Aside from the fact that the aircraft were very unappealing to me, something about the skill required, and the camaraderie I saw in competition did appeal to me. Years later and I now find little pleasure (relatively speaking) in simply flitting about performing loops, snap rolls and low passes wherever the nose may point. I find immense pleasure in the discipline of attempting to recreate a realistic performance and tuning that performance. Sooner or later that competition bug does bite, and it bites hard. It's not about competing against others or showing off, it's about pushing yourself to improve and sharing that drive (and techniques) with other like minded people.[8D]

Ok, enough of the soapbox. I draw an analogy with most sports. For example, most golfers don't aspire to the pro circuit, but many look to it for inspiration and ideas....
Old 06-27-2005, 03:02 PM
  #13  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Oh dear --- where do we differ?

I've not had a "competitive bug bite" in 45 yrs, but obviously a significant number of modellers fly competitively, & common rules need to be there for comparative purposes & stability.

Maybe this is where we start to diverge -- I think that the "marketplace" (the modellers) should be the ones to create, develop & codify the rules. The governing body should only be there to say -- "OK guys you agree in large part that these are your rules -- so be it. We hereby decree that the xyz rule will be in force for a period of two years, whereupon we will accept new generally agreed-upon rules from you, or we will re-sanction the current rules until such new rules are presented for sanction".

I don't think that rules should be generated by the governing body's "Rules Committee", or you will end up with a godawfull catfight like the one that has recently mangled & divided the combat fliers in Canada. The governing body, however, must ensure absolute compliance of the discipline's Contest Directors to the sanctioned rules, as they are currently in force -- or again there will be a catfight. There should be no participation in rules formulation by the governing body --only rubber stamping & subsequent enforcement.

Rules is rules & everyone benefits from being able to trust the rules comming from the fliers themselves, otherwise the rules will be ignored, or the events will begin to lose attendance.


Well?
Old 06-27-2005, 03:59 PM
  #14  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: britbrat

Oh dear --- where do we differ?

I've not had a "competitive bug bite" in 45 yrs, but obviously a significant number of modellers fly competitively, & common rules need to be there for comparative purposes & stability.

Maybe this is where we start to diverge -- I think that the "marketplace" (the modellers) should be the ones to create, develop & codify the rules. The governing body should only be there to say -- "OK guys you agree in large part that these are your rules -- so be it. We hereby decree that the xyz rule will be in force for a period of two years, whereupon we will accept new generally agreed-upon rules from you, or we will re-sanction the current rules until such new rules are presented for sanction".

I don't think that rules should be generated by the governing body's "Rules Committee", or you will end up with a godawfull catfight like the one that has recently mangled & divided the combat fliers in Canada. The governing body, however, must ensure absolute compliance of the discipline's Contest Directors to the sanctioned rules, as they are currently in force -- or again there will be a catfight. There should be no participation in rules formulation by the governing body --only rubber stamping & subsequent enforcement.

Rules is rules & everyone benefits from being able to trust the rules comming from the fliers themselves, otherwise the rules will be ignored, or the events will begin to lose attendance.


Well?
The combat guys are doing something wrong then...in pattern our committee operates exactly as I understand that you would like it to operate. We set the rules, the CD decides how many of the rules he wishes to enforce at a particular contest (usually few if any).

As I understand the problem with combat (and this also somewhat exists in IMAC) is the alignment with the US guys. For pattern we have our own rules here and if you fly in the US then you need to learn a different set of sequences and rules.....this has never really been a problem as our committee is very democratic.....not all agree on every subject but majority rules.

Old 06-27-2005, 04:57 PM
  #15  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: britbrat


We are in tentative agreement here. In addition to providing insurance and frequency protection, MAAC, or some sort of local or regional organization, forces a degree of discipline upon the modelling population. People being people, without a "governing" organization there would be an unsafe and chaotic morass of modelling behaviours. No frequency discipline, no regard for disturbance, or risk to the population at large and no reasonably structured training process would exist. There would also be no cohesive competition rules, although that probably wouldn't bother a large number of modellers.

Necessity is the mother of invention (or survival)....MAAC was formed by competitors for competitors. If MAAC today were to cease its involvement in competition (or fold altogether), competitors would form another organization within Canada.....we do so because we would need to. MAAC would most likely cease to be the "official" model aviation body in Canada at that point as they have no affiliation with the international governing body of model aviation....what that would do to their relationship with insurance brokers and Industry Canada I have no idea.

MAAC priorities....

Frequencies - I see this today as semi-important today and of decreasing value in the years to come as tech improves. I beleive that JR's next high end radio will be of the spread spectrum variety and have little use for our 72 MHz we use today. Futaba's R149DP receiver has such high signal rejection that unless someone is standing right next to you with a fully extended antenna you have almost zero chance of being shot down (I have personally tested this).

Insurance - I can easily beleive that we will be on a second payer system as per the AMA in the near future as the costs continue to rise. What the fallout of that will be I dont know, the AMA seems to have had little issue with it. Personally I beleive this is a good thing as it places more onus on the individual to be smart about safety as its their personal insurance on the line first.

Fields - I dont think much can be done on this within our geographical/demographical size range without significant time and resources spent....comparing us to other countries is apples to oranges in most cases.

Those are commonly the most referred to things that MAAC should be focusing on.....
What else...?
Old 06-27-2005, 07:59 PM
  #16  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

MAAC was formed by competitors for competitors
I just love reading that, it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling just to be a MAAC member!

[sm=sunsmiley.gif]
Old 06-27-2005, 10:28 PM
  #17  
Sharpy01
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: can773

Necessity is the mother of invention (or survival)....MAAC was formed by competitors for competitors. If MAAC today were to cease its involvement in competition (or fold altogether), competitors would form another organization within Canada.....we do so because we would need to. MAAC would most likely cease to be the "official" model aviation body in Canada at that point as they have no affiliation with the international governing body of model aviation....what that would do to their relationship with insurance brokers and Industry Canada I have no idea.
Nobody is suggesting any of this, nor is it likely for any of the above to come true. For one thing, it's transport Canada we need to keep on side. They ultimately govern what we do and really don't care about the different interests within. They only want someone to look after the toys so they don't have to.

You know as well as I that the very few FAI competitors that you allude to need the numbers to make things work and pay the bills. If MAAC folded, so does the ACC because they need us ................. and then what?

ORIGINAL: can773

MAAC priorities....

Frequencies - I see this today as semi-important today and of decreasing value in the years to come as tech improves. I beleive that JR's next high end radio will be of the spread spectrum variety and have little use for our 72 MHz we use today. Futaba's R149DP receiver has such high signal rejection that unless someone is standing right next to you with a fully extended antenna you have almost zero chance of being shot down (I have personally tested this).
good, the sooner the better, but we ain't there yet and just try and force everyone to discard their old systems quickly. We are still seeing wide-band stuff out there.............you must be realistic.

ORIGINAL: can773

Insurance - I can easily beleive that we will be on a second payer system as per the AMA in the near future as the costs continue to rise. What the fallout of that will be I dont know, the AMA seems to have had little issue with it. Personally I beleive this is a good thing as it places more onus on the individual to be smart about safety as its their personal insurance on the line first.
maybe some day, but hopefully not soon. The absolute VAST majority do fly safe already or we would have had more accidents. The second payer will only add another layer of complication in the event of an accident.

ORIGINAL: can773

Fields - I dont think much can be done on this within our geographical/demographical size range without significant time and resources spent....comparing us to other countries is apples to oranges in most cases.
Fields essentially come down to each individual club. It would be nice to have some major program for assistance, but it's not likely. That's one I have to conceed. However, that does not mean you ignore those clubs and create unecessary restrictive rules that make it difficult to keep or get a new field. It goes back to insurance because most depend on on it to keep what they have.

ORIGINAL: can773

Those are commonly the most referred to things that MAAC should be focusing on.....
What else...?
-Maintaining Insurance

-Maintaining close Government contact (RABC, Transport Can.)

-Assisting with National communication. (Mag/Internet)

What more do you want??
Face Facts;

MAAC, "the Administrative/Board Animal", that is, is not going to get more members interested in any particular interest area. It's not going to get you more pattern or scale flyers. That is YOUR job. If you cannot attract more interest in your specialty areas, don't look to the "government"(aka MAAC) to do it for you. If your area of interst dies out, look to evolution of the hobby or at yourself for not bringing more interest in. THe AMA prez also speaks a similar line.........but a little more politically correct.

What do you Expect from MAAC?

None of that politically correct bites about "foster and enhance", "formed by competitors for competitors".. bla, bla.... that means zip. It may sound very nice and official, but it means zip to most.
Old 06-28-2005, 07:49 AM
  #18  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: britbrat
I don't think that rules should be generated by the governing body's "Rules Committee"...
That's not where we diverge. I don't know how the other disciplines work but, in my timeon the scale committee, rule changes come from the field (usually as a result of a best practices observed at a large event), and are sent through the committee to vote on.

I understand that certain individuals may attempt to circumvent this, or some groups may attempt to stack committees (hence the new limits on # of members by zone rule) but, this is not, nor should it be, business as usual.
Old 06-28-2005, 09:32 AM
  #19  
britbrat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

It's beginning to look like we really don't diverge much on policy -- perhaps it's the practice part that gives the problems. Lets keep going.
Old 06-28-2005, 10:42 AM
  #20  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Nobody is suggesting any of this, nor is it likely for any of the above to come true. For one thing, it's transport Canada we need to keep on side. They ultimately govern what we do and really don't care about the different interests within. They only want someone to look after the toys so they don't have to.

You know as well as I that the very few FAI competitors that you allude to need the numbers to make things work and pay the bills. If MAAC folded, so does the ACC because they need us ................. and then what?
Transport Canada.....you really think they will have anything to do with an organization that is not affiliated with the international governing body of model aviation? This is the government we speak of....lobby them as an unofficialy non-affiliated entity and I am sure you can imagine the results you will get.

As for the ACC folding, again it will not as its required. Thats the one thing about necessity, it keeps things operating....the analogy can apply to MAAC...insurance is a necessity so MAAC survives....well for some (not just modellers) Canada's affiliation with the FAI is a necessity...it will continue in some form or another.

The ACC does not need MAAC, the ACC (or whatever its name would become) needs people who want to compete internationally.....of which there will always be.

good, the sooner the better, but we ain't there yet and just try and force everyone to discard their old systems quickly. We are still seeing wide-band stuff out there.............you must be realistic.
No you cant force people to do anything, yes there is still wide band stuff around which is pre 1991 (thats 14 years old) which is sad. However to spend time and energy protecting something that doesnt need protecting is pointless. Will we be there tomorrow...no, next year, no....in 5 years probably closer...

Eventually frequencies will be a non-issue....

maybe some day, but hopefully not soon. The absolute VAST majority do fly safe already or we would have had more accidents. The second payer will only add another layer of complication in the event of an accident.
Indeed, but I would bet a couple bucks that it will happen to keep costs reasonable.

Fields essentially come down to each individual club. It would be nice to have some major program for assistance, but it's not likely. That's one I have to conceed. However, that does not mean you ignore those clubs and create unecessary restrictive rules that make it difficult to keep or get a new field. It goes back to insurance because most depend on on it to keep what they have.
Agreement...how odd

-Maintaining close Government contact (RABC, Transport Can.)
I have still never really heard a good reason why this is nescessary? If I recall correctly you were against giving TC an updated definition of "model airplane" or some such?

MAAC, "the Administrative/Board Animal", that is, is not going to get more members interested in any particular interest area. It's not going to get you more pattern or scale flyers. That is YOUR job. If you cannot attract more interest in your specialty areas, don't look to the "government"(aka MAAC) to do it for you. If your area of interst dies out, look to evolution of the hobby or at yourself for not bringing more interest in.
Your losing me here....how are the SIG's asking MAAC to feed their SIG?

I dont recall my SIG (pattern) asking anything of MAAC.....in fact we ran a number of SIG Nats with nothing but our own effort. I think you are painting the many with the crimes of a few.

None of that politically correct bites about "foster and enhance", "formed by competitors for competitors".. bla, bla.... that means zip. It may sound very nice and official, but it means zip to most.
Regardless, it is the history of the organization and is why it was formed....the statements are fact and cannot be disputed. My point was that in history competitors created an organization for themselves...if the MAAC of today were to "turn its back to competition" then competitors would almost certainly form an organization for their own interests.
Old 06-28-2005, 10:52 AM
  #21  
Jim_McIntyre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Claremont, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: britbrat
Lets keep going.
Where from here?
It sounds like you have issues with certain individuals, not with MAAC?

That's always the case with large organizations, especially ones that rely heavily on volunteers ... 'personalities' appear. You have to weigh the good with the bad, this is similar to my experience with local clubs. Some put up with the 'personalities' simply because the benefits outweigh the liabilities. I have more time/patience for the 'opinionated grouch' that shows up to field cleanup day than I do for the 'bright idea guy' who appears with his plane after the work is done and the doughnuts and coffee are being served.....
Old 06-28-2005, 04:33 PM
  #22  
Sharpy01
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

ORIGINAL: can773

Transport Canada.....you really think they will have anything to do with an organization that is not affiliated with the international governing body of model aviation?
Transport Can. didn't even know we existed due to a lack of communication 2+ years back. Bransfield chanced upon a complaint lodged to Transport Can. about a model airplane. That is what began the whole, "what is a model debate". I'm afraid you think we are more than we actually are.

ORIGINAL: can773
I have still never really heard a good reason why this is nescessary? If I recall correctly you were against giving TC an updated definition of "model airplane" or some such?
You recall incorrectly.(a habit of late) I was on the other side of that one.

It is necessary because TC governs everything that flies, including our toys and we want to be in their back pocket when complaints or legislation is pointed in our direction. It wasn't that long ago the US "Homeland SEcurity" was considering banning/limiting RC aircraft in the States. The AMA, assisted by MAAC helped to educate the US senate to put the brakes on before things progressed too far. We need to know if anything like that is in the works. Those are real issues.........not wether or not a dozen modelers get their FAI licences.

ORIGINAL: can773
Your losing me here....how are the SIG's asking MAAC to feed their SIG?

I dont recall my SIG (pattern) asking anything of MAAC.....in fact we ran a number of SIG Nats with nothing but our own effort. I think you are painting the many with the crimes of a few.
Good job looking after yourselves, but many more out their expect things to be done for them and want, want, want....... My point is, if your area of interest flounders, don't look to the board for blame.

Old 06-28-2005, 04:55 PM
  #23  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

I'm afraid you think we are more than we actually are.
How could you possibly know what I am thinking....wow man you must have some powerful mind.....

You recall incorrectly.(a habit of late) I was on the other side of that one.
Please demonstrate how many incorrect recalls of late I have made...get off the personal crap and stick to the facts (I guess when you have none attacking the messenger is your only alternative).

I was unsure hence the question mark at the end of the statement....



Good job looking after yourselves, but many more out their expect things to be done for them and want, want, want....... My point is, if your area of interest flounders, don't look to the board for blame.
Who, when???? You make such claims but then leave them unsubstantiated....if you have a SIG in mind who did this lay it out (the facts and not your personal opinions)....if you have no facts dont make the statements.

You speak of contructive discussions yet you continually leave your comments with personal innuendo and with generic statements without facts.

For instance...

It is necessary because TC governs everything that flies, including our toys and we want to be in their back pocket when complaints or legislation is pointed in our direction. It wasn't that long ago the US "Homeland SEcurity" was considering banning/limiting RC aircraft in the States. The AMA, assisted by MAAC helped to educate the US senate to put the brakes on before things progressed too far. We need to know if anything like that is in the works.
I NEVER heard of this issue in this manner....and I did know about it. So if it was so serious as you claim please provide the necessary backing.....
Old 06-28-2005, 05:27 PM
  #24  
kenair
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (10)
 
kenair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: winnipeg, MB, CANADA
Posts: 884
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm

Transport Canada.....you really think they will have anything to do with an organization that is not affiliated with the international governing body of model aviation?
a correction required in one of the previous posts. - FAI only govern air sports, sets rsporting rules and colects the records - FAI has no regulatory position in aviation like the DOT, FAA, MOT or ICOA.

Many associations have much to do their government even though thy are not associated with FAI,
THE LARGEST AVIATION GROUP IN CANADA...COPA.... IS NOT A MEMBER OF ACC OR THE FAI BUT HAS MANY DEALINGS WITH
CDN DOT.
Old 06-28-2005, 06:02 PM
  #25  
Sharpy01
My Feedback: (12)
 
Sharpy01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Posts: 626
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: The MAAC Paradigm


ORIGINAL: can773


You recall incorrectly.(a habit of late) I was on the other side of that one.
Please demonstrate how many incorrect recalls of late I have made...get off the personal crap and stick to the facts (I guess when you have none attacking the messenger is your only alternative).
It's quite simple Chad, your dumping stuff out as fact, when it's simply been made up to stir argument, not discussion.

ORIGINAL: can773

It is necessary because TC governs everything that flies, including our toys and we want to be in their back pocket when complaints or legislation is pointed in our direction. It wasn't that long ago the US "Homeland SEcurity" was considering banning/limiting RC aircraft in the States. The AMA, assisted by MAAC helped to educate the US senate to put the brakes on before things progressed too far. We need to know if anything like that is in the works.
I NEVER heard of this issue in this manner....and I did know about it. So if it was so serious as you claim please provide the necessary backing.....
Yep, young fella, there is much you don't know and I'm not in the habit of "making things up".

If you suspect my credibility, then don't believe it. You have that choice. If you don't think it's necessary to maintain close government contact where it counts, I suggest you are wrong, but that is your choice. THe examples are real if that helps in your decision.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.