If you have a spektrum you can use the throttle cut switch to cut the throttle but leave the pitch in the blades.

Is there a battry can I can use the stock charger for or do I need anouther charger?

Justin,

I had the same problem a few weeks ago, thought the battery was going dead. It wasn't the battery, the motor was going bad.. Replaced motor, now everything back to normal.. If you motor is real hot after another run at it, you motor is probably shot.
Before doing that, make sure that your gear mesh isn't to tight, that can put an extra load on the motor also. Just spin the blade by hand, it should move easy and free of any binding. You shouldn't hear any grinding at all.

Dave / Choppersrule

OK im alive again. 1st Ill see if my newb way of explaining tuning helps you some more commander bob.... but it is essentially what copperdudes said.
Ok So for anyone who isnt aware this is my first heli and I have come a long way from my first week now in understanding the very basics.... My heli has been through many crashes, mostly minor while practicing hovering. And even though I had been checking blade balances after each crash and watching for bends in my flybars and spindles. I had felt like I mastered tail in hovering with a completly stock setup, After many crashes the bird just seemed to get more and more difficult to fly. I was beginning to get very flustered and was becomming to think this heli was a very bad choice for a 1st timer.
Well my opinion has changed some now... I dont know if I would completely agree with copperdudes but it can be learner.

Ill try explain my trip through dialing in this thing with a little ramling as possible:

First a trip to the LHS for parts, and a complete teardown(not eletronics)
I first checked for vibs by just spining up the motor and mainshaft, No head/swash/blades & tail motor was unplugged.
I had a new mainshaft in and checked it for vibration by spinning it up and feeling the skids and chassy for vibs...there was some very high freq vibs but Im sure they are normal for such small components that are molded (not the very most precise stuff) More importantly I pinched the top of the shaft and slowly incresed the throt to make sure I could not feel and bend in the Mshaft.

Then I went on to checking out my center hub and rotor head. The ones I had been flying since new I found out were hammered. The key on the hub and the keyway on the rotorhead were worn from too many bladestrikes/crashes. This caused the hub to be able to twist inside the rotor head too much. I pulled out some new ones from the LHS and they had much less play in this aspect to on went the new ones. I then placed these pieces on the shaft(swash too) and spun up to see if they would cause in change in level of vibs. Everything seemed as before when spinning up the shaft only[8D]

Next I added the paddle control frame and pushrods, also the feathering/spindle shaft, blade grips, mixing arms and pushrods. Did a spin up check here and everything seemed the same as when doing a shaft only spin up... [8D]
note:I added 1 shim to each side betweeen the oring and the step washer on the spindle shaft, allowing less lateral play in the blade grips and beter centering it.

Next I removed the hub&rotor head, and the paddle control frame and inserted a new flybar (the old one had a very slight bend in it that I was not able to detect when fully installed) I centered the flybar perfectly by using the depth gauge part of my digital calipers based on the lock nut part of the paddle control frame to the tip of the flybar. i then attempted to try to check the balance by teetering the setup on the outer ball links of the control frame carefully between my fingers. this didnt seem to work too well so I just tightened the bar down in the current dead ceter position and threw everything back on the shaft.....Did another spin up check and every thing was super smooth...
note: with this little wieght on the shaft and a new center hub everything would spin up fine without installing the shear pin...saving time since I just was looking for vibs along the way.

Next I again removed the head and added the flybar weights and paddles (ensure the are all the way on) and set them perfectly parrallel to the paddle control frame (something I had previously not paid close enough attention to, it is importand to use the paddle control frame as your refference when setting paddle pitch to 0). tried my crappy little balance by the link balls method again and it seemed pretty well in balance so on the bird everything went. Another spin up test. I now needed the sheer pin to get everything to spin up and there was an ever so slight difference in the smoothness of the spin up but I decided it was negligable and went with it.

Onto the blades...This was the first time I hade balanced the blades off the head. Hopefully some experts will chime in on this matter as to if this is a much preffered method or not. Previously I had been using the meathod listed here: http://www.bladecprepair.com./man_mr...stment#balance.
On the blades went and another spin up....everything seemed super smooth. I dont know if I would claim that the heli had no vibs at ALL, like uncle sir has obtained, but there was no visible vibs. The only detectable vibration anywhere in spin up was only found by feeling the bird by hand (im pretty sure that it is totally impossible to get it feel like its not even running at all).
I tracked my blades and decided everything was acceptable and pluged in the tail for a test hover.

I had also just installed a telebee/zoom HH gyro (followed the instruction in the blade CPP manual exactly). I did some ground test to make sure my reverse setting were correct and then popped her in the air and I WOW! after a little triming and tuning the gyro gain this thing would hover rock solid. I could dead stick the controls 2-3 times longer than ever before. The HH gyro, another WOW, holds the tail wherever I leave it (only hovering so far). I gave some jabs of throttle and the tail does not swing as it did before with heavy jabs of throttle...Love the HH, glad I followed your advice jelly.

I dont know if much of this will be technically helpful to most, but it will hopefully help some other newbs like me in realizing the importance of maintinance and not try to fly a beatup machine. Also I hope it offers some encouragement to anyone who is starting to feel like this little bcpp is a piece of unstable junk. It certianatly is not. Now if im hovering and give forward stick it goes strait forward and when i bring it to a gradual stop it stays right where I stopped it. It almost seems toe easy now.

I feel that it is time for me to get out and do some FF. I have been trying to master all orientations of hover first but I am hearing more and more that people are doing FF before they can noseIn hover.

Copperdudes
(and anyone else who can help),
how did you move out of hover into FF. I have heard of slow ff to one side the a half piro and back and forth progressing farther, faster and wider until your fly big fig 8's....alternatively I have heard to fly in a circle around yourself in one direction and then the other before doing fig 8's....I have flow pretty far and fast forward and backwards away and twords myself, but i am nervious about incorporating turns into FF. How did all of you start out with FF...any advice would be gfreatly appriciated.

Thank everyone, Noah

My heli used to fly great with little to no visible vibes. (well now it won't lift off)

I think I'll buy a new motor. My gear mesh is good and the motor is pretty warm on just a spin up.

Also noguy, the shims you put on the spindle are just washers right? There the realy thin ones.

I have not ballanced my blades or head yet. I was going to do that today.

Thanks guys,
Justin

I just ballanced my blades with the same idea of the blacecpreapair. Here are some pictures. The blades were already ballanced (there are new) and seem fine.

I used a guitar stand with two alligator clips to hold paper clips onto the blades.

I just spun it up w/o the head and the gear made it wierd sound so it moved the motor a little and now it is clean sounding. Smooth.

justin, yep, you might better try another motor first, especially if it goes hot on spoolups.

i started ff by flying circles around myself, more or less tail in at first, then turn the tail to follow the nose. then i actually started turning by doing a semi-stall turn. it'll fly from left to right in front of me (master side in first), then pull up to about 30~45 degree, and swing the tail around, no collective change, no aileron control, much easier, since a turn needs all 4 controls.

I'm off to my LHS to ask them about the problem and to probably buy a new brushed motor (don't have enough $$$ for BL yet (I have a small job now $15 a week))

K guys i need more help. I Love rc heli's havent been doing it long but love it. My problem is though that i cant get this thing even close to a hover. i could hover fairly well with a cx (which i know is a completely different bird) So is this thing just that much harder to fly???? I almost think that maybe there is something wrong with my heli. any advice please help me get this bird in the air at least to a hover that is somewhat controllable. also how high does it need to be to hover well without being in its wash????? ANother thing is that when i stand over it up till about 1/4 stick it has a wobble looks like the mainshaft may be bent or something not bad but just a little. will this affect the bird to bad to fly it?? or will it damage it if i continue to fly it??? Please help me guys i love this but cant stand sucking at it so bad!

Regards,

B_Dub!


P.S. WIll getting the dd tail rotor help me very much?

Commander bob,
yes the paper thin washers...shims.
I just installed 1 per side and it seemed that there would be room for 2 per side before it would really start to affect the dampening. I decided to just try 1 and havent attempted to run it with 2 per side yet.

B_Dub, you say it wobbles under 1/4throttle. sometimes that is normal, and it goes away when the blades find their lead/lag positions. check to make sure your blades are equally tight and see if the wobble happens during spindown also. go above 1/4 first till it smoothens, then drop below 1/4 to see if it's as bad as it was during the initial spin up. if it's smoother, during spindown, it's just lead/lag, which is not a problem in flight.

yes the dd tail will help keep the tail straighter when you are learning to hover, however it is much more prone to breakage during a crash. so i'd recommend staying with the stock tail until you can hover a few packs without a crash.

as you mentioned, the cp can be much harder to fly than the cx. just stay patient and stick to RADDs. you'll get there soon enough.

Thanks for the reply trug. Also how high should i be trying to hover? How high is it best to hover i should say. It seems like it always wants to immediatly hover straight sideways is that from being in its wash?

B duub
Yes...the cx can be flown in no time by someone with no experiance. it is by design self correcting in hover. the bcpp requires you to keep it upright at all times.
You can learn on this thing if your determined and patient though.


2 foot should be high enough to be well clear of the wash. however it behaves progressivley better from lift off to 2 footish...hovering with the skids only couple of inches off the ground will reveal the most ground effect, 5 inches up is better, at ~10 inches its not really that noticable and so on.....

Often, the center hub that has that little button on top with the srew holding it on just makes it apear that the main shaft is bent. AND often it is pretty easy to bend a main shaft.
Does the whole heli shake from this?
Are you you pulling your blades out nice and strait before you wind it up through 1/4 throt.?, are they too loose?
have you checked the blade balance?
Does the whole rotor head system seem to wobble around in a circle when it first start spinning slowly, or does just that little button appear to be moving out of round?

Yes if the main shaft is bent its no good, it will fly but it will fly better/correctly with one that is not bent.

flight school to get you hovering:
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

can anyone tell me the part numbers for DD tail and motor. And does any one know where i can get any main shafts....i was going to go with the one way bearing and gear, but i can't find it any where on the internet that has it in stock.


I am also thinking about going to carbon blades...i have mastered the hover and am now flying around pretty good. the only mishaps i have now are very light blade scuff and such but the woodies are getting expensive and i don't want the JCS blades.....i was just wondering what every ones experience was with the carbon blades....thanks all, this is an awsome thread!!!!

np B_Dub. i'd say try staying as close to the ground as possible at first. getting it 3 feet high will get you into smoother air, but the heli will still react the same to cyclic and you'll have 3 feet to drop out of an emergency situation, which means you need way more room. the heli will slide to the left naturally due to the tail rotor force. i'd be repeating what has already be written very well if i continue to comment. check out RADDs for a well written intro to piloting helis:

[link=http://www.dream-models.com/eco/pre-Flight.html]RADD's R/C Heli Flight Training[/link]

i taught myself how to fly with RADDs in a relatively short period of time. it really works if you are religious about punishing yourself. remember, it's all about keeping the heli under your control 100% of the time. literally, you have to constantly asses what the heli is doing or about to do. if you take your concentration away for a millisecond, you're going to have to recover or crash. when you get good, flying helis is almost a zen feeling. you can feel the heli hearing obstacles without having to take your eyes off the heli to see.

OK I have to share my glee
and I promise I wont keep filling this thread with chubby post for a while....sorry all.

I took my heli outside today cause I had to have some room to start movin around with new found level of stability and confidence. I think it was too breezy for my skill level 3-5 mph.
I went for it though.

Thanks a ton copperdudes,
Today I decided with the wind I would just stay tail in and nose to the wind... Well it handled very stable and I got a taste for the added lift from the breeze and a good feel for the required throttle to compensate when moving into the wind and with it. I flew a hundred feet upwind in front of myself forward into the wind and backwards twords myself... I even went well to my side and behind myself(both myself and the heli still facing the wind) I even tryed some pretty fast forward flight until I would get around a hundred feet away and then came backwards back to myself...
Second batt I tryed some S-turns flying straight away from myself and felt good and comfy with leaning into the turn and bringing my rudder along wtih it all.
I didnt dare try a circle or fig 8 as I was afraid that my side in skills may not be up to par for the strong breeze as it was requiring a good deal of correction to compensate for.
I felt very good about going through two whole batt in soo much breeze with no crashing so I called it a day and think I gonna start to like all this stuff a whole bunch more from here on out.

THANK YOU TONS everyone who has helped me get this thing dialed in.... I dont know if I would have kept with this whole heli thing much longer if I had never got my bird to fly nicely as you all helped it to fly....
Thank again, Noah

you can get the dd tail parts from helifever.com.
[link=http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=191]here's the tail mount[/link]
[link=http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=93]here's the motor with props[/link]
[link=http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=192]here's the big prop & adapter if you don't mind overheating the motor for better performance[/link]
[link=http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=195]here's the heatsink, which i'd use with any prop[/link]

i have tipped over on cement with eflight symmetrical cf blades and barely scuffed them. they are light and fly very well. i'd recommend them if you are done hovering. just be very careful how you're flying, broken cf is very sharp and dangerous. they are also hard to see if you are the type that relies on looking at the disc during flight.

spuratic,

there are links here to each part: http://www.bladecprepair.com./man_tr_dd_conversion.html

However that motor mount is very weak mine broke from a fairly slight bump into the carpet.
I found the gws ones much stronger(no built in fin though)....you'll have to search the web alittle or ask your lhs. its the tail motor mount for gws's micro heli which that motor is for.

Sorry no iput about the carbon blades...havent tried em...but can say I dont like the plastic ones compared to the woodies. they're way too heavy....
I found woodies for $8 here: http://www.helidirect.com/product_in...roducts_id=779 but they havent arrived yet... I'll let ya know if they are any good when they come and I check em out. they have flat bottoms too but they were sold out.

Ok just came back from my LHS and when I told the guy what it was doing he imediatly said new motor. He said he replaces brushed motors every month...Wow
It was too late to fly when I got home so I'll try tomarrow. The new motor has a 10t pinion on it but my old has a 9T. Does this matter? How will it affect motor wair and performance?

For DD I just used my old (stock) mount. Much stronger than the others. All you have to do is cut out the flat part and there you go a new DD mount.

Thanks,
Justin

there are 2 kinds of stock chargers. one that connects to the 4 wire balancing connector, and the other has 2 wires that hook up to the jcs connector on the battery. if you have the 4 wire balancing type, you can safely charge whatever 3S lipo you like as long as you have an adapter to plug in to it's balancing port (i made an adaptor to charge my thunder power lipos with my stock charger, and i've been problem free for months. well, free of battery problems anyway.). if you have the 2 wire style, i'd recommend getting a balance charger instead. charging a 3S lipo with 2 wires is pretty sketchy, especially if you aren't checking balance somehow.

Justin,
I have heard that the 10t with the lipo will strain the motor since it is not strong enough to run headspeed gearing that high without overworking itself....
I would try to get the 9 on it....go with stock since you have already been having so much trouble...imho

i hear the main motors are supposed to be good for ~25hrs of use. not sure if you got that much, but once a month sounds good. a 10T pinion is meant for symmetrical blades, 9T is for flat bottoms. 10T with flat bottoms will overheat and have short flight times, 9T with symmetricals will have inadequate rpm/lift.

justin is also right about the dd mount (brain fart). the stock tail works best, you just have to install it as a pusher instead (prop on rhs pushing on the motor instead of pulling it). instead of grinding the mount to fit, all i did was slot the screw holes a little with an x-acto knife to get it to fit.

Truglodite,

My bcp pro (and I think all) came out of the box with a 9t and sym woodies... I have been flying flats lately but just ordered some more syms...

Should I run a 10t with those?

thanks noah