so i finaly talked to horizon, and i guess i'll be out of a helicopter for a few days/weeks. is there any laws regarding the shipment of lipo batterys, i hope not, b/c i just taped it back in the box. lol

I think that you can't send them out of the US or in the air... If you did ground shipping I think you'll be fine.

Hi Justin
Sorry to be so snippy earlier, I am up against a wall of my own right now, I apologise.

So we have eliminated excessive draw caused by the gyro. Now we need to eliminate the gyro weight.
Too bad you changed something else in the meantime, if we go about this in an orderly way we can track down the exact cause and perhaps help others (like me!) avoid the same thing.

So I would suggest putting the pitch back where it was and physically removing the gyro to see if the weight difference is causing the lack of performance. But as I said earlier, I doubt if the weight will matter that much.

Normally having the motors swapped around doesn't hurt anything. I think the board actually uses the same dual mosfet type for both output circuits.

As long as you didn't stall the tail motor while it was plugged into the main esc, it is probably OK.

when the tail was in the main esc it had a few blade striks...
I'll go change the pitch and remove the gyro... I'll report back

OK just flew it w/o gyro on it and it went up to 3-4ft. and slowly came down and after around 20 seconds was on the ground. Could the main motor be bad? When the motors were switched it had some random jumps of power but noting that would kill it...

HELP [X(][:@][:'(][]
Justin

Have you tried a different battery? Thats the way mine acted when I had a bad battery (one of those $20.00 ones that helidirect sells) I don't thing that the weight of the gyro would prevent it from getting airborne.

As I said I tried it with out the gyro and same thing. I have two battries and they do the same thing. I dought both died at the exact same time. I'll go try the other again.

Justin if the tail motor stalled, that is if it stopped turning while under power, while it was plugged into the main esc, it may indeed have damaged the esc. Usually they fail completely but it is possible for it to fail in a way to still give partial power.

I would suggest getting ahold of another 3-in-1 or a separate esc to try. It is very unlikely that your batteries are both bad, especially if you are geting the full voltage on charge.

The tail blade only nicked the ground it was not stopped for very long. I'll see if my LHS can help me out and see if that is what it is.

If I use an amp meter (it just shorts the circut and measures the max current) than would I be able to tell if the motor was lacking power?
I could put the motor in the circut with the amp meter and see what I get.

I'll of corse take the motors off the heli so it has no blades to hit me with.

Thanks,
Justin

OK I was wondering what kind of aproximate vert. climb rate people are getting with their bcpp?
I had mostly flew indoors prior to DD tail mod and was always too nervious to ever give FT.
outside on my first few flights with DD I was feeling very comfortable and the thinng was flying very stable so I gave it FT stabs for the first time. Maybe I am just seeing too many vids online with people flying brushless setups and was just thiking my bird was doggin.
With the plastic syms it would climb only about 10 feet at full throt for 2-3 seconds...
with balsa's maybe 10 feet in 1-2 seconds
I deffinatly noticed having a wider range on the throttle without ant agressive climb/fall action.
And it deffinatley is taking a bit more throttle to lift off.
what kind of climb rates aprox. do you get?

Also much thanks to Jellyson & robmoney for the PMs. You guys rock. with all your help I'll be flying some nice fast circuts real soon. Thanks again.

We asked the same question on here once upon a short time ago.... Heli's are truley live and learn.....

You are welcome!

When my BCPP was flying It did not climb very well ether. Probably same rate as you.

I tested the amp draw from the main motor and at full throtle it toped out at 0.49 amps. When I put my finger on the motor as resistance (simulate the blade) it went up to around .85 amps.

I just tested the tail and it draw .13 amps at full throtle and .25 with my finger...
From what I see the ESC looks ok but that does not explane why the main motor slows down durring flight. [:@]

Thanks a lot,
Justin

Could the esc in the 3in1 be one esc with a split output that is varied by the revo pot?
or is it two serparate esc's
If its one it mak perfect sene to lose some power on the main motor (at a given throttle input) if the draw at the tail has increased...

noguy, thanks for the flowers, just like rob said, we were newbies like, just last week, wasn't it? Seems like it anyway.
And that's a good theory about the escs in the 3-in-1. I think you are almost right. But not totally--because the tail esc still will work even with the proportional pot turned all the way off. I think the coaxial helis like the BCX probably work like you said.

Cmdr Bob, the drain measured by an ordinary meter can be deceptive when measuring the motor/esc combo. The esc is technically a "pulse-width modulated motor controller" and actually gives short little pulses of voltage to the motor to spin it. You can even hear this--that high pitched whine when first starting--that's the PWM pulses you are hearing. Sometimes regular digital ammeters get confused with this kind of thing.
Folks who put fuses in the tail circuit generally are using 2 or 2 1/2 amp fuses I believe, and these do blow on occasion. So the tail motor can draw that much if it is stalled under power.
But this usually simply blows the 3-in-1, so it stops working totally.

I don't know if any of this information will solve your power problems--we may need to go back to the beginning:
Check your main gear backlash and the shaft end play. Binding here can cause power problems.

What do you mean "main gear backlash and the shaft end play"? I am useing a paper clip so there is extra play but it flew fine before with it so that can't be it.

Tomarrow I am going to my LHS and getting the DD mod and I'm going to ask them about this problem and see what they have to say.

Could it be the tail motor buring out and drawing excesive current to keep it going?

Thanks for all your help,
Justin

ok justin, let me try. first off, are you using stock tx? ok, tell me these things, you climb up to 5~10 ft, do you raise the throttle or do you not move it? so before it starts to drop, the headspeed really dies off? right? and it'll sink to ground effect and can only stay aloft in ground effect? so try these first:

eyeball the pitch of the main blades, make sure 0 or -1 pitch at 0 throttle lowest trim in normal mode. adjust with pitch control links.
if you are using a computer radio, reduce the pitch travel.
what capacity batts are you using? (i'd recommend not over 1000mah especially with that overweight gyro of yours and the dd tail) (best are tp910's)
no, i doubt that the few stock tail strikes will kill the 3 in 1. and the amp draws seems to be ok.
your main motor may be going, but not a high chance.

so, i'd strongly suggest you trying out this first, to elaborate on the first point. reduce the pitch so that you CAN'T get out of ground effect even with full throttle, but have the headspeed maxed out. i don't suggest moving the throttle trim up, as that will increase the pitch range while not the throttle range. so when your hovering in ground effect and screaming headspeed, increase the pitch until your compromisation between motor bogging and climb rate.

just to clear the throttle trim and why i don't suggest using it (with stock tx and motor anyways):
all in NORMAL condition:

low stick low trim, pitch = 0.
low stick high trim, pitch =0.
high stick (motor unplugged) low trim, pitch = approx. 10.
high stick (motor unplugged) high trim, pitch = approx. 11~12.

low stick low trim, throttle = 0.
low stick high trim, throttle = approx 5~10%.
high stick (motor unplugged) low trim, throttle = max (red led from 3 in 1)
high stick (motor unplugged) high trim, throttle = max (red led from 3 in 1)

thus throttle can't be increase when there's increase in pitch.

too much pitch will make lift off difficult too, as you'll always have more pitch than the motor can handle at that specific rpm.

That could very well be the problem and I'll try it tomarrow with more light but it did this even before I messed with the pitch. Maby the weight of the gyro needed higher head speed...

Tomarrow my new DX6 should arrive but for now I am useing the stock Tx Rx and tail. Also I am useing the stock lipos. I bought the E-flite pitch gadge but the plasti blades are too small for it.[&o]

Thanks I bet this is it. I thought it might be...

Thank you I'll post how it goes tomarrow,
Justin

another culprit... gyro, way heavy than usual, which should be ok on it's own. then you've got dd, heavier than stock, THEN you've got plasti blades... THEN stock e-flight sucky batts. best to try out the previous method first. but if that don't work, i'd STRONGLY suggest you getting a set of woodies. and try it that way.

I don't have the DD tail. yet[>:]

maybe your pitch was already 'not right' from the start? just wondering, cuz you've just added the dd and the gyro, you really don't need that good a gyro anyways, and that does add some weight to it. may i ask you where you are in the learnign curve? did you ever punch full throttle collective before, if you did, i'd say 99% of the time it'll do what it's doing now, sinking.

oh, my bad, typing the same time, then disregard the dd tail. for now...

With full trottle it used to climb but not like you see in videos. It had a hard time comming out of a decent (even a pretty slow one)...