donnspadbauer

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Hey Dave, Have you ever scaled up the PBF for Gassers? I did a CIggy Pack and now I am going to try a PBF for a DLE 30. I am thinking aluminum square tube for the spine and 6mm Coro, 5/32 wire landing gear and a stearable tail wheel. Any thoughts from the PBF guru?

Dave McDonald

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Never tried scaling a PBF up to gasser size.

My nephew made a foam 36x36 PBF with a .61. Flew like a kite.

A buddy made a 42x42 PBF out of 10mm coro with a .91. A bigger engine wouldn't have hurt.

Gordo made a really light foam 48x48 PBF with a .45. Flew like a kite filled with helium.

So I'm guessing somewhere between 48x48 and 60x60 would work OK for a 30cc engine. But this is just a guess.

Hint: It's much easier to cut down a too big PBF than it is to make a too small PBF bigger.

Bundubasher

Donnspadbauer....hey are you going to get into the airline bussiness with that big PBF?
What are you planning to use for servo's on those large elevons?12V wiper motors from a truck?,

Go for it, It will definitely be a crowd puller....

donnspadbauer

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Hey Bundubasher, I am either going to use Hitec 5645s or 945s with a 945 for the rudder. 48" square 6mm coro and 6mm coro rudder. An all up weight of 10.5lbs 1.7 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. Hey Dave, have you ever tried a PBF that is wider than it is long? I was thinking maybe 4 X 5 to start.

Dave McDonald

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I've never tried an out-of-square PBF, but several others on here have. They seemed to work just fine, especially if they were longer than wider.

Bundubasher

Don, I've only build a 35" x 35" PBF (built it light - balsa). I was amazed at how little it took to keep it flying. Mine is battery powered and is flying with a 450 E-Flite motor - I'm going to upgrade it as it is underpowered, but flying....

I have no experience with rectangular flying objects, but I have built a lot of flying wings i.e Horten III, Nietoperz, Geier etc. - these needs a bit of washout to keep them stable. Both the Nietoperz and Horten have about 10 degrees washout on a 3m wing. I've also build variousstyrofoam "flying saucer (gliders) up to 1.2m diam.

But fromwhat I've seen with my 35" x 35" PBF and how wellshe handles, you should probably not have any problems. The plastic Correx may prove a bit heavy on that size PBF. A few years ago we had the "mugi craze" - those Delta slope soarers made from Correx. I've tried to build a 1.2m wingspan one but it was too heavy and because I've tried to build it light, it folded on launch.
Why not build a trial version out of styrofoam first? Lighter, easier to build, cheaper? But I like your concept, it sure is interesting. At the size you're looking at, one can almost make a towplane for gliders out of it....

Cheers

donnspadbauer

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Well....... HEEEEEERRREEEEEES PIZZA! I went with a 4' long wooden stake 3/4 by 1 1/2, 4'X4' 6mm Coro and a 14" X 12" vertical stab. Servos are 200oz airtronics on the elevons and a HS 925 on the rudder. Power is a DLE 30, bateries are 2300mah 4 cell for IGN and 2500mah 6 cell for receiver. Balance was tough to get right because I wanted the engine close to the fuse and she was tail heavy. Next time I would extend the engine 3 or 4 inches and mount the control servos closer to the surfaces.

Bundubasher

Hey, this is one serious PBF!!!... What is the AUW of it? let us know how it flies.

Goinstraightup

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That would be for an Extra Extra Large Pizza

donnspadbauer

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Yes Sir, I need to get a new prop and then she is gonna maiden. I will have my videographer shoot the first flight and post it ASAP. Below are a couple of pictures of Bauer Field where I fly. If there are any flyers in the Puget Sound who want to fly, just let me know.

donnspadbauer

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I'm going to name her "PRECIOUS"

Dave McDonald

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The Precious PBF looks good!

Waiting for a flight report.

RC MANIAC119

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OH BABY......I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THIS

donnspadbauer

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Thanks Dave, and the rest of you too, I have to get down to Valley View RC and pick my Xoar props and then she will dance!

donnspadbauer

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Well here is the maiden. 5 minute camera timer ran out before the pogo sticking and flat spins but I will get them up soon. She flys great and has too much power........ I'm kidding... there is no such thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJgi52PdyPA

RC MANIAC119

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That's pretty awesome........NICE JOB!! Looks like you're about ready to re-balance that beast..( a tad too nose heavy)..and have some real fun!!

Goinstraightup

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Cool! [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

Disarray

Thats right, I have made a proper Pizza Box Flyer:

My new pride and joy:

donnspadbauer

My Feedback: (26)

Love it Man, can you get some longer axles?

Goinstraightup

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Classic!!

Bundubasher

Magnificent flying machine... hey I like that casual flick of the prop to start it...........

Enjoy

Bundu

Clean

Well I've finally succumbed Dave and built another PBF, the bane of every newbie that ever figured a 5 minute build to an almost indestructable airplane HAD to be the answer they were looking for. Sure, they don't have the dexterity required to use their garage door remote control but by golly they're going to fly RC airplanes if it costs them every car panel, window and neighbors dog in the area, then come ask us questions in the beginners section of every forum.

The last one, the first one, I had was back in 2002. It had a Norvel25 on mouse can. It had two throttle settings, not enough and Mach3. It wasn't much fun. This one has a TT42 and mouse with full size gear. Flew it for about an hour yesterday, got off light with only one broken prop and one replaced pull pull thread.

So, is there a 'how to fly' thread on here as indicated on your webpage or is this the combination thread which means 63 pages of reading?

As is, I'm just flying figure 8's and slowly working into higher and higher AoA with momentary hovers. Drug the tail a couple times so I'm working it down in altitude though with the limited 3D that I've flown with tuits and that GeeBeeqhor, I don't have problems figuring out it's not an airplane. Still, first flight was about 40 feet high for parts. Last flight I don't think I went over 20.

Gonna take some driveway markers out to the field to fly around instead of just figure 8's anywhere.

Required photos

Dave McDonald

My Feedback: (19)

Glad to see you got another PBF going! It sounds like you were more successful this time around.

You're right, there isn't a "How To Fly A PBF" section on my web page, even though needs one. The info you're looking for is buried in the 63 pages somewhere. In the mean time, here's a few pointers about learning to fly a PBF.

1.) Don't fly too fast!

2.) Keep the nose up at a positve angle of attack. Anything less than about 15 degrees risks going too fast, and causing the nose to suddenly tuck under.

3.) Don't fly too fast!

4.) Control the airspeed with the elevator position......the altitude with the throttle......and steer it around with the rudder. If you're able to control the direction with just the aileron control, then you're probably flying too fast. (see rules 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11)

5.) Don't fly too fast!

6.) The goal is to learn to coordinate the elevator and throttle to maintain a constant altitude regardless of how high the nose is aimed up.

7.) Don't fly too fast!

8.) The secondary goal is to learn to steer the PBF primarily with the rudder stick, while the aileron stick is simply used to control the wing bank angle, regardless of the rate of turn.

9.) Don't fly too fast!

10.) Read and memorize the spin recovery techniques on the web page. You're going to need them sooner or later.

11.) Don't fly too fast!

Clean

Actually recovered using the outside technique twice today, then promptly DIDN'T recover from the next two inverted spins I fell into. I need to adjust the expo's on the rudder I think. I have been pretty good about just using the ailerons to hold the wings level while steering with the rudder, which is pretty much where I got into the spins. I was pretty smooth with the rons and then all of a sudden would be dipping, upping the expo took care of most of that. I think I need to do the same with the Rudder as I'm going full rudder just a little too soon when I really just need a teensy bit more rudder but I'm getting full bang.

Most off, I just need practice. The most speed I've had on it is usually just after it flips over on it's back and jams into the dirt. I did find one error. I was having a bunch of trouble adding throttle and then having it tip over on it's back. I had trimmed the silly thing for slow, level flight with the nose up. Well naturally now I have to push down in just to keep it from pitching up, or in this case back. I think I've got it pretty level now as I'm able to add quite a bit of power at neutral elevator and it doesn't pitch back. The TT 42 is really performing quite well in the throttle response, it's kinda cool to slowly come up on the power as the plane is settling and watching it slow, hold and then start climbing. Just haven't gotten to the hold it at one altitude point yet. Was a lot closer then the first flights on Wednesday though those flights were pretty much all slow speed, high Alpha level flying.

Clean

Kay, nother question there Boss Man Dave.

Qhor with a 40fp and mouse. Would you put it on the original size one or the 40 size one?