I have lost my AFPD cable. (I'm an idiot, I know)

I'm aware that, quite rightfully, you guys don't sell just the cable, as this would allow rather easy duplication of the software. However, I would presume there is SOME way for a valid owner of the software to obtain a replacement cable in the event of loss or damage.

What do I need to do to accomplish this?

TIA,

On the same note my cable is broken at one of the Ends that connect to the TX. A wire is busted inside of one of the Plugs. Wasn't it mentioned that their is a life time cable warrenty. How do I get my Cable Plugs replaced? Thanks.

david

My cable has been bad from day one. If you even blow on the plugs while playing, It gets all jittery. You have to hold the control at a certain angle and you can move it at all. I love the game but my cable is TERRIBLE! I would love to have it replaced, But I dont wanna have a 2 week turn around time for replacement.

*deleted*

Well,

After receiving no answer here for more than 24 hours (one must wonder, at this point, what the value of having a direct support forum is) I called Ikarus USA.

I was told by Frank there that there is "100% absolutely no way to get another cable".

So...what we've got here is a product that, with the loss of a single small component, is rendered useless. There is NO WAY, DESPITE being willing and able to provide any documentation of original purchase they may require, for me to obtain a single component. My money is wasted.

Certainly, Ikarus is not responsible for REPLACING my cable free of charge....it is my responsibility for having lost it. I'm more than willing to pay a replacement fee.

However, I am told that the only way I can do this is to purchase the entire software package again. (I must, at this point, wonder if the argument could be made that, in fact, the software is free, and they're charging you ~ $175 for a cable...but I digress)

I'm a developer by trade. i understand the desire to protect your work and intellectual property.

But come ON. This is ridiculous.

Anyone have any other suggestions at this point?

STLPilot Help us out here Please.

Gboulton where did you buy AFPD?

If your cables is defective or broken call Ikarus at 239.690.0003. If it's just a simple solder break you can easily fix it if you don't want to wait to replace yours. Either way, they will replace it or help you fix it if that's what you want to do.

If the cable acts jittery or gets hot it can be reaplaced as well under warranty. Call 239.690.0003 and get an RMA to return it and have it replaced.

As far as losing it, sorry but they will only replace defective, not replace something that you have misplaced.

Thanks for the Reply STLPilot. I'm going to call to have mine replace.

Gboulton your best bet is to find your proof of purchase or contact the place you bought AFPD from and see if the can find the sales history for you.

I have my proof of purchase, my original CD and CD case with serial number, all the original packaging, and the original receipt.

It is Ikarus themselves (Ikarus USA specifically) that have advised me that, despite these things, they REFUSE to provide a replacement cable, EVEN if I am willing to purchase same.

I'm really not being unreasonable here...as I've said in another post, as a software developer, I understand their desire and right to protect their work.

I'm not even arguing that what they're doing is "wrong". They have every right to say "this component is critical to our system, and we won't replace it if lost."

It's just really lousy business is all.

why not give a call to ikarus.....germany

How can you be a developer and not know this then. Just go into any Comp USA or Best Buy. Now buy some software, doesn't matter any label. Take it home and lose it. Now go back to the Best Buy or Comp USA and say you lost your software and try to get a replacement. These are mulit billion dollar companies and I can already tell you what they are going to tell you ... sorry but we cannot replace something that you lost, only that is defective.

I too am a software developer and have been selling software many years before I started distributing AFPD. There is a difference between replacing software that is broken or defective and something that is lost.

Listen, I'm sorry that you lost your software, I really am. We've replaced lots of software and cables over the last 2 years and I've had this discussion many times before. Losing your product is not the responsibility of Ikarus, IPACS or OMP. You are responsible for things that you own.

And if you say that Ikarus does not take care of their customers, that's a load of crap. I've sent them customers to have their cables replaced because that have their dogs chew their cables, broken in vaccuum cleaners and other reasons. But in each case their cable was replaced because they had something to show that there really was an accident and had their cables replaced. They didn't have to replace any of the accidental damaged cables, but they did. It's just not their policy to replace what was lost.

Ja! (At least you don't know what their saying!)

Where did you last see it?

STLPilot, you should re-read gboulton's posts. He lost his cable, not the software. I can see both sides of this. The software is not copy protected, so if they sell a new cable to someone, and the person isn't being honest, they now how a free copy of the sim. STLPilot's analogy of buying a piece of software, losing it and asking for a replacement is a bad one, as most companies will do exactly that. CD's and DVD's get damaged all the time, and any major software company has a replacement policy for this common issue. A better analogy would be if someone bought a high-end piece of software that comes with a dongle, and you call tech support of that company and ask if they will sell you a new dongle to replace the one you lost, my guess is the answer will be either no, or they will sell you one for a cost near the price of the original software. I think in this case that a significant fee for the cable, that is also a lot less than the price of the full product, say $50-$75, would be in both the customer's and Ikarus' best interest. It's better to look at the big picture rather than to focus on the minutia. How many potential customers are they losing by not taking care of gboulton...I wager more than the one customer they might be losing if he is being dishonest and trying to get a cheap extra copy, which I doubt very much is the case. The large fee for the cable will cover their cost completey no matter what the truth is.

Ikarus will do the EXACT same thing, you are confusing DAMAGE with LOSS. They are 2 different monsters. I mean you even said it yourself REPLACEMENT policy. Replacement means taking old and damaged and replacing it with new. I don't know any company that has a "loss" policy unless it's a cell phone and you have to pay a monthly fee for that. The reason that Ikarus needs their product back for replacement is because they will not get credit from their manufacturer IPACS. This means that Ikarus will be paying for the product he lost at the field. This is the same reason Best Buy and Comp USA have REPLACEMENT policies. If they don't have something to return to the vendor, they wind up paying the bill. Do you understand this now?

Also this cable is not just a dongle. There is software and hardware inside the cable. This is why these cables just can't be easily made, because they are not just simple dongles like you say. That's why nobody posted after GBoulton asked how he could make his own cable.

You also mentioned that Gboulton was being an "honest" customer. This is the same person who posted in these forums that he wanted information to manufacture his own cable knowing that RCU would give him a warning for posting what he said (which they did). I knew he was upset, but it still shows the integrity he had as an "honest" customer. The post was deleted from this forum by the moderators because it's against RCU policy to discuss cracking software which he knew was not allowed if you read the post. As far as I can see he made 1 post on RCU (sorry I missed the post), one phone call to Ikarus then decided to take matters into his own hands by trying to find out how to steal his own copy. Personally I would have done things just a tad differently, but that's just me.

In any case I have no control over it. If that's Ikarus' policy, then that's what I have to stand by and support. They get the policy handed to them from their headquarters. Once again I'm sorry he lost his cable, I really am, but losing something and something defective/damaged are very different.

How do you lose your AFPD interface?

Let's see here....at this point, I've been discussing this in about 3 threads, and forgotten where we are and who's answered what when. *heh* As i said elsewhere, this is (except in this thread) probably a pointless back and forth anywhere else, and doesn't serve the needs of other posters.

In THIS thread, it's probably appropriate (and, imo, important) that it continue being discussed, provided we can all do so in a reasonable fashion. (And I'm as guilty of becoming hot-headed as the next guy, so I'll try to watch it )

Now, let's see:

Spacey:

I took the cable, along with my laptop, to the airfield one afternoon, to demonstrate the software to some fellow hobbyists. I mistakenly did not return it to my laptop bag, and upon my return, it was gone.

Dion,

I think where we're missing connections here is this:

You're suggesting I've lost software. You've said it several times. "I'm sorry you lost your software." You draw an analogy to going back in to BestBuy and "say [ I ] lost my software".

I don't see it as having lost "software". However, if you wish to insist that's what this situation is, let's run with that, using YOUR analogy.

Approximately 2 years ago, several folks at my company had software stolen by a dishonest contractor. All of us kept various software (both software we bought personally, as well as software purchased for us by the company) titles in CD cases in our offices and/or cubicles. The thief in question obtained access to a master key, and over the course of an evening, made off with the CD cases of some 5-6 developers.

Every single one of us were able to successfully obtain (in some cases with a fee, in others free of charge) duplicate copies of the CD's we had lost in ANY case where we could demonstrate proof of purchase. Some companies wanted a simple receipt, others wanted to know our CD keys, still others wanted photocopies of the original jewel cases showing serial numbers or cd's.

Point being, in each case where we could demonstrate that we had, indeed, purchased the software legitamately, we were able to replace a missing component that had been lost through no fault of the vendor/author.

Now, really, while you see this as losing software, I don't...this is NOT software, it is a COMPONENT of an overall SYSTEM. A system I can prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that I have purchased.

I suggested elsewhere (in one case after YOU drew the analogy Dion) that the situation was like any other total system...components are made available for a price. Frankly, I don't see a real difference between this system, which comprises 2 components, and any other system that may comprise anywhere from 2 to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 components.

From this line of thinking (I know you disagree with this, but we've examined your point of view above) the cable IS a dongle. Yes, it has software AND hardware, though i'm not sure why you suggest that that fact makes it "not a dongle" since every dongle I've ever used is precisely that...a piece of hardware with software to make it do its job...but in either case it is fulfilling the ROLE of a dongle. It is a tangible security mechanism to ensure a piece of software functions only at an authorized location. AGAIN, from this point of view, countless examples can be shown (and I have personal experience here as well) where companies will replace lost dongles with appropriate verification of the legitamacy of the request. Again, some do so for free, others charge.

Finally, you suggest nobody responded when i asked for help making my own. You really oughta see my inbox, Dion.

Now, why do i bring THAT up?

To demonstrate a point.

We're BOTH software developers, Dion. We BOTH understand how utterly downright massively MADDENING it is to know that our work and effort gets stolen by worthless sacks of *&^*. It's even more aggrivating that most of these losers argue that what they're doing...common, simple THEFT...is somehow "ok" because it's software.

None of this changes the fact that, no matter how hard we try, or what solution we come up with, somebody somewhere WILL find a way to break it. It's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN. You're a developer, you know this as well as I do.

Such is the case with AFPD's cable...it's already "broken", and copies, while difficult to find, are out there. If a fellow happens to have a bit of electronics knowledge, and maybe some experience playing with old basic stamp processors, they're not, as it turns out, all that hard to duplicate. Takes about 2 hours, actually.

So here's the thing...

Certainly, the makers of the software have every right to protect their work. But in an environment where NOTHING they do is going to be 100%, why not choose a method (or multiple methods) that doesn't/don't expose them to the possibility that a customer will feel 'poorly served' when he/she makes a simple human mistake?

BTW, one other comment.

Please understand, Dion, that I completely respect the fact that you are a VENDOR of this software, not a representative of its maker. I fully understand that you are merely enforcing the policy handed to you by the software's author. So please don't take anything here as an "attack" on your business.

For the record, I HAVE done a small amount of business with OMP, and found your company to offer a quality product at a reasonable price, which was shipped rapidly.

In short, were I say a local customer who did all my shopping there I'd probably work to get you to stop carrying this particular company's products. However, I certainly wouldn't (and won't, in future) stop doing business with you based on this issue alone.

Humm I'm on the fence about this one guys. You both have valid points.

With my situation I'm just going to attempt to solder the broken wire myself before request a new cable.

Best of Luck.

Some good points Gordon, but then again it doesn't really matter. Policy is policy to the vendor, it does not matter who does what elsewhere. One thing I don't know is whom was the vendor when you initially purchased? Ikarus? OMP?

Also Gordon, I know exactly who you are and know that you've done business with OMP in the past. I hate to lose any customers for any reasons.

Now when I came into these threads I read your first post, then another post asking how to make your own cable, I was not exactly thrilled. As a programmer you should know that you don't need to ask the RCU community how to make your own cable, you were doing it for 2 reasons, spite and attention. You know there are lots of places on the web you can find this information like hitting up Google or some of the Warez discussion groups. Instead you decided to use my support forum to get this information and it appears you got what you were looking for probably from a couple users that I already know the names of as I've dealt with this type of thing before.

So now I'm kind of stuck in a dilema here. It just seems that you got a little inpatient, understandably.

Dion,

*heh* Ya know, to be honest, it really wasn't for spite OR attention. I was simply doing what I always do in similar situations...using the web to its fullest extent, seeking information from every resource I could think of.

You're right, though...putting the post in your support forum was inappropriate, and I appologize. Heck, i KNEW it was inappropriate when i did it, else I wouldn't have asked for PM's knowing the mods might whack the thread. So yes, a bit of anger and impatience got in the way there. Again, I appologize.

And no worries...as I said, I recognize that you are simply enforcing the authors' policy, not making policy yourself. I get the feeling that, were this YOUR product, we could probably have resolved the issue in a satisfactory manner with a couple of phone calls.

FTR, btw, I purchased the software through my LHS, not OMP (though who THEY purchased it from I don't know...i don't BELIEVE it was OMP however). I DID purchase a JR adapter from you guys (which, humorously enough, I still have. Go fig...the EASY to duplicate inexpensive cable I kept my hands on *heh*).

Ah well...I think, the bottom line here, is this:

1) IPAC received appropriate payment for one copy of the software.

2) I can still use my one copy on my one laptop.

3) You haven't lost any business

While you and/or IPAC probably aren't happy thinking someone can/did duplicate their cable, in this PARTICULAR case, I suggest the "no harm no foul" rule applies.

=============================

On a COMPLETELY different subject...i just HAVE to ask. Does the STL in STLPilot represent St Louis by any chance?

Well Gordon in any case you have not burned your bridges. Your right about one thing if you were my customer I would do things my way. In any case your chain of order for getting what you want (customer satisfaction) resolved is the Hobby Shop, then Ikarus USA, then Ikarus Germany then IPACS.

I can assure you that if you act patiently and professionally and request one of these vendors/distributors/manufacturers to take care of you the way you would want to be taken care of ... then I can assume that one of them will want to continue to do business with you.

If all else fails, then come look me up. But I would at least like to see you made an effort in a professional manner to have one of these companies break policy to give you what you think you deserve. Personally if it was me ... it wouldn't go past the Hobby Shop. Just do it the right way, aggresively and patiently.

Yes STL pilot used to be St. Louis where I was living for a few years. I since moved back to the northeast where I am orginally from. I'm stuck with the name I guess.

Thanks for the advice. As it is:

LHS, of course, could not obtain another cable.
The next step was to try here (operating, at the time, on the presumption that this forum was monitored by the folks who made the software, not OMP)
Next was a call to Ikarus USA, with the results I mentioned elsewhere.

I suppose, as you suggest, a call to Ikarus Germany is now in order, though, to be honest, i'm not sure why that would produce different results (other than perhaps not being able to communicate, as I don't speak german *heh*...though it wouldn't surprise me if SOMEONE there spoke English) but I'll give it a try as you suggest.

On the other subject, what part of St Louis were you in? I was born and raised (until age 12 anyway) up there, in the Chesterfield area.

You don't have to just make phone calls, send emails and a letter if you have too, raise some hell, just the right way. They guys at Ikarus Germany do speak English, I know a few of them. Your goal is to get IPACS asking Ikarus Germany asking Ikarus USA why they are not taking care of a customer issue.

I lived across the street from Forest Park. I used to keep my airplane out at Spirit airport in Chesterfield. I really miss living by the park ... spent 1/2 my time in there. Flew RC planes on every inch of that park, even giant scale.

thanks again for the insight on the IPACS "chain of command". I'll keep at them. (I'll just tell them Dion told me to raise some hell )

Man...i loved Spirit airport. heck...who am i kidding...I love airports. Dad was an aero eng. for McDD for 25 years...helped design the Phantom and Eagle among other work, so I kinda had it in my blood. Shoot, our back yard now looks something like this:

yardyardyardTREELINErunwaywunwayrunway.

Makes watching the annual Smyrna airshow a REAL blast...especially on the preceeding Thursday's when everyone's practicing. In fact, if you're at all curious, http://www.tnreefer.com/stuff/airshow/ has some shots from this year's event. Roughly half those photos (anything with trees, one with a chimney, and the one of the F-15 with gear down) were taken in my back yard.