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Kit or RTF????

Old 05-22-2010, 06:40 AM
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formula87
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Default Kit or RTF????

What would you recomend a Kit or RTF, this is my first Helo and would like to go electric and spend $100-150.00 If I get a kit I would think I get more for my money right?. and I don't want a micro or mini maybe 1/18 to 1/8 scale? What would you guys suggest? Am I being resonable?
Old 05-22-2010, 08:41 AM
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Solman
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

For the price you are talking about, for kit, you are definitely not reasonable. If you haven't flown before, I would suggest getting something like a coaxial helicopter or a Blade MSR(ultra micro). I would also suggest buying a sim as well.
Old 05-22-2010, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

ORIGINAL: formula87

I don't want a micro or mini maybe 1/18 to 1/8 scale?
You are an RC car racer, are you? Do your homework, helicopters are not measured by "scale". There are several "classes" of helicopters, and they are:

Micros ( I don't have much experience with these, but they include some hobby quality, like the 200 and 250 size helis and a variety of toy helis as sold on department stores)
minis: these include the 400 and 450 class of electric helis
500 electric
550 same as .30 if flying nitro
600 same as .50 if nitro
60 size nitro
700 same as .90 size nitro
gasser (as in gasoline engine)
turbine


Am I being resonable?
No, go back to your car racing days. When you bought something cheap, how did it perform?

And to answer yor question, that also comes from RC car mentality..... It is better to get a kit. That way you know how to take it apart and re-assemble for when you have to repair it after you crash. And you WILL crash.

Rafael
Old 05-22-2010, 07:20 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Thanks for the comments I want to try it out, I may not the hang of it and it may be a watse of money that was just a budget I wanted to be around.  Just getting my feet wet instead of going to walmart and getting a $25 air hog
Old 05-22-2010, 07:41 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

second vote here for a coaxial helicopter or a Blade MSR. I think the MSR comes with radio and everything for 200. Almost every hobby store has parts support for them too.

im sure you are aware of the 20 dollars FMS sims too. To help you out.
Old 05-22-2010, 11:24 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

No, go back to your car racing days. When you bought something cheap, how did it perform?

And to answer yor question, that also comes from RC car mentality..... It is better to get a kit. That way you know how to take it apart and re-assemble for when you have to repair it after you crash. And you WILL crash.
First of all, he obviously doesn't know what the going rate on heli's are, so take an easy on him. As far as the kit, once again he doesn't know the going rate. When someone doesn't know the hobby and they ask questions, try to look at it from their view. I didn't go on a forum before I bought my first heli and I know I would've asked what would seem strange questions.
Old 05-23-2010, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????


ORIGINAL: Solman

First of all, he obviously doesn't know what the going rate on heli's are, so take an easy on him. As far as the kit, once again he doesn't know the going rate. When someone doesn't know the hobby and they ask questions, try to look at it from their view. I didn't go on a forum before I bought my first heli and I know I would've asked what would seem strange questions.
Don't waste your time correcting me. Please provide reasons that back up your suggestions. He is experienced in car racing. I just turned my potential suggestion into something that he is familiar with.

As for the going rate for helis, anybody with enough logic to find this website, should have enough reasoning to find several rc hobby outlets and do some research.

That is the reason why I NEVER suggest specific models.

Rafael
Old 05-23-2010, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????


ORIGINAL: Rafael23cc


ORIGINAL: Solman

First of all, he obviously doesn't know what the going rate on heli's are, so take an easy on him. As far as the kit, once again he doesn't know the going rate. When someone doesn't know the hobby and they ask questions, try to look at it from their view. I didn't go on a forum before I bought my first heli and I know I would've asked what would seem strange questions.
Don't waste your time correcting me. Please provide reasons that back up your suggestions. He is experienced in car racing. I just turned my potential suggestion into something that he is familiar with.

As for the going rate for helis, anybody with enough logic to find this website, should have enough reasoning to find several rc hobby outlets and do some research.

That is the reason why I NEVER suggest specific models.

Rafael

Hey guys this is supposed to be the beginners forum right?? I am no expert in RC Helos or RC cars for that matter I just know it does not matter how much you spend you will always crash and always break somthing so as with RC you get what you pay payfor I am not expecting much for $150.00 there seemed like some good buys out there for "beginners" and that was my budget.
Old 05-23-2010, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Don't waste your time correcting me. Please provide reasons that back up your suggestions. He is experienced in car racing. I just turned my potential suggestion into something that he is familiar with.
Hey guys this is supposed to be the beginners forum right?? I am no expert in RC Helos or RC cars for that matter I just know it does not matter how much you spend you will always crash and always break somthing so as with RC you get what you pay payfor I am not expecting much for $150.00 there seemed like some good buys out there for "beginners" and that was my budget.
First of all, I am feeling obliged to correct you. You obviously are not paying attention to what he is asking or what his skill level is. As he said, this is the beginners forum and you sir are being too harsh in your judgement and not reading what he is saying. You assumed that he knows more than he knows. How is he suppose to know that heli's aren't in scale. This is why he is in the beginners forum. To learn and to share information is what this forum is about. Beginners forum is not a place for more experienced people to bash the newbies.
Negative way: Do your homework,helicoptersare not measured by "scale".

Positive way: Hey, just to let you know, helicopters don't go by scale like cars do. Here are some examples of the sizes....
Those are the reasons to back me up, so read what is asking and don't be so harsh.
Old 05-23-2010, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Back to the original question. My personal feeling is to get a kit. That way you will know how to fix it when something breaks. Depending on how much time you want to put in the hobby is the question on what to get. A coaxial helicopter is easier to fly but people tend to get bored with them. A cp helicopter has a steeper learning curve. But you can grow with them as you get better.If you have a hobby shop near you, you should see what they carry.And they would have parts as you need them.Otherwise, you have to go on line and see what is in your price range. I have a trex 450 and a copterx450 and I like them both. The cypher is another good one. Some people may steer you away from the cp helis but I started with them and made out ok.
Old 05-23-2010, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

To be honest, what kit is he going to get for $150? He could get a bare bone HK, but he won't have any money for anything else. It isn't that I disagree with you, but you have to read the whole thing and work within his means.


What would you recomend a Kit or RTF, this is my first Helo and would like to go electric and spend $100-$150
Old 05-24-2010, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

I am thinking fixed pitch RTF there are many for what I want to spend to get me started.I like the full fuselage but a simple one like the Honey beeor like that may work.as forthe coaxial type just looks to strange...... maybe easier to learn on but I would think I would get bored with that quickly.
Old 05-24-2010, 09:23 AM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????


ORIGINAL: Solman

First of all, I am feeling obliged to correct you. You obviously are not paying attention to what he is asking or what his skill level is. As he said, this is the beginners forum and you sir are being too harsh in your judgement and not reading what he is saying. You assumed that he knows more than he knows. How is he suppose to know that heli's aren't in scale. This is why he is in the beginners forum. To learn and to share information is what this forum is about. Beginners forum is not a place for more experienced people to bash the newbies.

Negative way: Do your homework, helicopters are not measured by ''scale''.
Positive way: Hey, just to let you know, helicopters don't go by scale like cars do. Here are some examples of the sizes....
Those are the reasons to back me up, so read what is asking and don't be so harsh.

Oh, I did not know I had to sugar coat my statements. It seems to me that you are the one that is not reading MY posts. Did you see that I went ahead and listed the different "classes" of helis? What else am I supposed to do? Tell him which one to buy? I will NEVER do that, as stated on my previous post. People that suggest a specific model do so most liklely because they have no experiece with anything else. I point out the facts and let the person make the final decision.

formula87:
Good luck finding your helicopter. Since people here seem obliged to correct me, I will go somehwere else where my knowledge is accpeted without personal attacks. And thin skinned people accept my statements without the need for the sugar coat.

I suggest that you visit the profile of the people offering you suggestions before accepting them as potential options.

Rafael
Old 05-24-2010, 10:25 AM
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karlik
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

I'm very hesitant to post anything myself, but what the hell. You're asking for thoughts and input and since I actually fly an FP I'll share what little I can.

Coax are fun at first but for a lot of us they get boring real quick. I still use mine for orientation practice but I'm using it less and less for even that. But some guys enjoy them and never get bored, so it kind of depends on the individual.

I started with and am still flying the falcon 40 fp for the same basic reasons you are listing (mostly not sure how far I'd go and didn't want to make a huge initial investment). The honeybee/walkera 4/falcon 40 (all of 'em are the same heli) are in your budget and great little starter helis, with a few qualifications.
The upsides are they are very durable and repairs are cheap, and they are still small enough to fly in a garage or even a living room (not my living room, but I know some guys do).
Downside is they are small and lightweight - less stable than a cp and don't like wind. Depending on your skill level I'd say 3 mph wind is where it starts to get real interesting and the most I've tried is around 10 mph. At 10 mph I needed lots of room cause it was all over the place. I have no regrets about getting the falcon, it's been a pretty reliable little heli and I've made great progress. But there are guys here who say they are crap and don't waste your money. Then again, some people like Fords and some like Chevys, some are democrats and some are republicans. What works for me may not work for you. Regardless of what you get it takes time and patience.
Old 05-24-2010, 10:51 AM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????


ORIGINAL: karlik

I'm very hesitant to post anything myself, but what the hell. You're asking for thoughts and input and since I actually fly an FP I'll share what little I can.

Coax are fun at first but for a lot of us they get boring real quick. I still use mine for orientation practice but I'm using it less and less for even that. But some guys enjoy them and never get bored, so it kind of depends on the individual.

I started with and am still flying the falcon 40 fp for the same basic reasons you are listing (mostly not sure how far I'd go and didn't want to make a huge initial investment). The honeybee/walkera 4/falcon 40 (all of 'em are the same heli) are in your budget and great little starter helis, with a few qualifications.
The upsides are they are very durable and repairs are cheap, and they are still small enough to fly in a garage or even a living room (not my living room, but I know some guys do).
Downside is they are small and lightweight - less stable than a cp and don't like wind. Depending on your skill level I'd say 3 mph wind is where it starts to get real interesting and the most I've tried is around 10 mph. At 10 mph I needed lots of room cause it was all over the place. I have no regrets about getting the falcon, it's been a pretty reliable little heli and I've made great progress. But there are guys here who say they are crap and don't waste your money. Then again, some people like Fords and some like Chevys, some are democrats and some are republicans. What works for me may not work for you. Regardless of what you get it takes time and patience.

Okay I know Coaxial and Fixed Pitch what is CP?

andRafael23cc If I did not want someones opinion I wouldn't have posted that is what a forum is for. Thanks for the info. Unfortunatly itwill all come down to budget and whatIlike the looks of.

Old 05-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Collective Pitch like the blade msr. Most hobby shops will test fly one for you to see. Let us know what you end up with and good luck on your hunt.
Old 05-24-2010, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

FP is fixed pitch - the pitch of the blades doesn't change so to go higher you make them spin faster. There's a slight delay for the motor to speed up so the heli is a little slow to react.

CP is collective pitch. The blade speed stays pretty much the same and to go higher you just increase the pitch of the blades. Blade pitch can change much faster than an FP can increase motor speed so a cp heli will react faster and smoother. It's a better system but there are more moving parts which means more expensive. The blades spin faster so in a crash you'll probably break more parts. An fp can use a cheap 4 channel radio while a cp will need a 6 channel and better/more expensive electronics all around The honeybee, falcon etc come with a radio, you'd need to buy a radio for most cp helis.

If you ignore the cost collective pitch is a better way to go. But like I said before, I don't regret starting with a fixed pitch. At some point in the near future I'll get a collective and the falcon will sit on a shelf, but I've already gotten my moneys worth out of it and then some. For me, it was a very good investment. Your milage may vary.
Old 05-24-2010, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Collective Pitch like the blade msr. Most hobby shops will test fly one for you to see. Let us know what you end up with and good luck on your hunt.
Wrong answer, the MSR is a fixed pitch heli.
[quote] Since people here seem obliged to correct me, I will go somehwere else where my knowledge is accpeted without personal attacks.[/quote]
Bye bye. BTW, wasn't trying to personally attack you. Just saying that you came across disrespectful.
CP is collective pitch. The blade speed stays pretty much the same and to go higher you just increase the pitch of the blades.
You did good explaining, but your a bit off. CP has the same throttle range, but you can program pitch curve and throttle curve depending on what you want. So basically as you increase your throttle, your pitch is changing with your throttle. When you are in 3D mode, your throttle stays really high and changes very little. 3D mode is more based on your pitch than your throttle and you typically have +/- 12 degrees of pitch. It is very difficult to pull off any aerobatics with a fixed pitch heli. Here is a cool video of what you can't do with a fixed pitch.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l08sONIYaFs[/youtube]
Old 05-24-2010, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Now that was cool!!!!!!!!!!! I was going oh HOLY !$%# don't crash............ this guy can fly okay. LOL!!  That is a CPor Collective pitch?
Thanks
Old 05-24-2010, 03:56 PM
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ORIGINAL: Solman

You did good explaining, but your a bit off. CP has the same throttle range, but you can program pitch curve and throttle curve depending on what you want. So basically as you increase your throttle, your pitch is changing with your throttle. When you are in 3D mode, your throttle stays really high and changes very little. 3D mode is more based on your pitch than your throttle and you typically have +/- 12 degrees of pitch. It is very difficult to pull off any aerobatics with a fixed pitch heli.


No - actually I'm not a bit off. This is the beginner forum and I intentionally gave a beginner explanation, no need to bury him in information. Simplifying the answer and leaving out info is not the same as being wrong.

You need to lighten up a bit. It's beginning to look less like you want to help people and more like you just want to impress people.

Sigh - looks like my first instinct about not posting was probably correct.



Old 05-24-2010, 04:36 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

ORIGINAL: karlik

No - actually I'm not a bit off. This is the beginner forum and I intentionally gave a beginner explanation, no need to bury him in information. Simplifying the answer and leaving out info is not the same as being wrong.

You need to lighten up a bit. It's beginning to look less like you want to help people and more like you just want to impress people.

Sigh - looks like my first instinct about not posting was probably correct.
Thank you for that statement. maybe now we can continue with a discussion without the urge to correct people.

i'm going to bury solman with information now...... On a Collective Pitch helicopter, with a properly set-up pitch curve or a properly set-up governor, the rotor RPM STAYS relatively the same. You change the angle of the blades to raise or lower the helicopter. but you knew that already, right? Oh, wait, you did not. cause you corrected karlik on his statement.

But then we are in the beginners forum, you want to give information to the newbie, but ....
1. you don't want to bury them in information,
2. you don't want to give them the wrong information...

Rafael
Old 05-24-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????


ORIGINAL: karlik


ORIGINAL: Solman

You did good explaining, but your a bit off. CP has the same throttle range, but you can program pitch curve and throttle curve depending on what you want. So basically as you increase your throttle, your pitch is changing with your throttle. When you are in 3D mode, your throttle stays really high and changes very little. 3D mode is more based on your pitch than your throttle and you typically have +/- 12 degrees of pitch. It is very difficult to pull off any aerobatics with a fixed pitch heli.


No - actually I'm not a bit off. This is the beginner forum and I intentionally gave a beginner explanation, no need to bury him in information. Simplifying the answer and leaving out info is not the same as being wrong.

You need to lighten up a bit. It's beginning to look less like you want to help people and more like you just want to impress people.

Sigh - looks like my first instinct about not posting was probably correct.
CP is collective pitch. The blade speed stays pretty much the same and to go higher you just increase the pitch of the blades.
I am lighten up, but when you tell someone that a cp heli throttle only moves a little, that is incorrect. BTW, I am not here to impress. Think that if you like, but that is not why I am here. As far as feeding too much info, that may be a possibility and I will keep that in consideration.

Old 05-24-2010, 09:21 PM
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Default RE: Kit or RTF????

Everyone will **** on me for this..but who cares.........buy a phoenix sim......and the an blade SR
Old 05-24-2010, 09:38 PM
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ORIGINAL: Drumheller Dave

Everyone will **** on me for this..but who cares.........buy a phoenix sim......and the an blade SR

Why? A simulator would be a great investment. But why are you suggesting those particular items?

Rafael

Old 05-25-2010, 09:46 PM
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Drumheller Dave
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Hey.....Raf.......started out with a Blade mcx...father bought it for me..gawd..I,m 55 yrs old......dad...was and still is a big rc plane guy........flew the damn thing and loved it..out grew it quick....figured..aha B400 watch me fly this puppy.......wrong.......$100 worth of parts later( and lots of new information and learing etc)...saw an advertisement for the MSR.......well...sure fun..but broke the s__t out of that as well........saw the new SR...figured..will help me to do the 400...sure bought it.........crashed once.....getting po'ed.....saw the phoenix flight sim.......bought it...now I fly both the SR and the 400......not well, but havn't spent a cent for parts for overa month...now I am having fun..

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