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FUNSONIC FS52 / projet Help

Old 03-16-2014, 12:52 PM
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Tampaflyer
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Default FUNSONIC FS52 / projet Help

SO I got a turbine to play with. Not my first , but was a chance to play around with a smaller one.

On the bench it kicks off on the propane, AND then the pump would not come on. SO I fiddled with it some more.
I began to notice that I had no Rpm being displayed. So I messed with the connections some more and during one start up it showed some rpm. and it pumped fule and started into its run up... the rpm dropped... and it died . And the ecu did proceed to spin it for cool down,

SO I either have a loose connection or a bad Rpm sensor.

The board says PROJET.

SO since Robart does not sell these any more, Who can service it. Or where could I get another board?

hoping to put it on a Falcon 120..

Last edited by Tampaflyer; 03-16-2014 at 12:55 PM.
Old 03-16-2014, 02:00 PM
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sysiek
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I have 3 fun sonic turbines and one of have same problem it's two thinks you should try one the magnet inside the front nut is no good or weak ,,I did replaced my ,,with small earth magnet must be installed sideways or try to mauve the sensor closer possible to center ,try to place metal object to the front nut and see if the magnet is strong ,I think you should be able to order one from jetjoe if is to hard to replace for you and check the wires connection.and if you looking for parts I have some to.

Last edited by sysiek; 03-16-2014 at 02:16 PM.
Old 03-17-2014, 03:03 PM
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Did you fix the problem?
Old 03-17-2014, 03:33 PM
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I am getting some rpm now. Now I don't see were there is a magnet. Not even sure where the sensor is on the pc board. .

Now , when it starts up , it lights right off the propane. and starts to accelerate. then just shuts off.

on the tube that connects the two fuel lines under the cowl there is another filter like device, and in the tube is a piece that looks like a retrictor. it looks like it has always been there. but maybe I have a fuel delivery problem.

and I haven't had a chance to open it up further.

the ecu only shows 6-7hrs , so its strange its having this issue.


do you think it could be something in the fuel system? in the tubes of the chamber?

I at least know that I can explore on this turbine, since there is no warranty to be involved. but not sure who I would send it to have to fixed either.
Old 03-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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The restrictor is for lube the bearings only don't touch ,the magnet is inside the aluminum front skrew not visible ,I have extra board but I think is the magnet relate problem ,if you like send me the turbine for checkup I'm not the service mechanic but I have lot of experience with this type turbine nd I have extra new esc and fuel pumps .
Old 03-17-2014, 04:21 PM
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This is the front screw with the magnet.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:00 PM
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when you spin the wheel , does it see the rpm eaily, or does it take some high rpm before it reads. mine seems to have a delay reading it , then jumps to a high rpm. and is that the magnet in the hole. or is it inset similar to a heli?

so I will focus on this and not disassemble anything until the rpm is ruled out.

could I buy a new nut?
have you replaced the magnet yourself?


THANK YOU for the help.
Old 03-17-2014, 05:08 PM
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sysiek
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In one turbine I did instal brass tube to thread protection and drill the old magnet out than find similar size magnet and install with ca glue sideways ,my turbine started to work perfect after the ,check before with jetjoe if the have the nut I think jj-1400 have the same magnet nut let me check.
Old 03-17-2014, 05:11 PM
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This is the jj nut
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:18 PM
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whats the link. may order one any way.couldn't be that much. and if it makes it here before I can mess with it again. I will just swap.
Old 03-17-2014, 06:03 PM
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Google jetjoe and look fot prices it's $14 ,than go to ordering fill the info with the part number and wait for the PayPal recite and wait for the order ,the bearings from jj-1400 are the same if you planning tho replace ,before you remove the nut make mark om the compressor and nut for alignment and balance left thread only .
Old 03-19-2014, 08:38 PM
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You can buy a spinner nut with magnet for a Ram 500 (same as JJ1400) from Carlos, he is in Miami, his
service center is RTI. Do as the other poster said in marking the shaft and compressor wheel. You must hold the turbine
nut, with socket, heat compressor nut only, then twist clockwise to unscrew the nut(left hand threads).

Johnny
Old 03-20-2014, 03:35 AM
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thanks , to everyone for helping. I did contact Carlos at RTI. Great guy. He said it is likely that the fuel pump is not getting a signal to start running because of temperature.
while he doesn't work on this brand, he said at look at those areas.
I was also informed to look into loose connections as a possible reason for the cause. I do get some rpm readings once spinning. but just get nothing when spinning by hand.

I may set up a video on the next run up, try. it would help to see it, .
Old 03-20-2014, 05:46 AM
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Tampa,
A possible source Is Larry in Florida. Check out post #231:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...e#post26243141

There is another post I couldn't find from a guy in N.Y. who was advertising Jet Joe.

Sid

Last edited by sidgates; 03-20-2014 at 05:49 AM.
Old 03-20-2014, 06:07 AM
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Hey, Sid

I actually talked to him. He suggested RTI. And that most likely the magnet In the starter nut should be ok. And I either have a loose connection or an electronics failure that is erratic in the ecu or control board in the turbine.
so I am getting a few different diagnosis..

I need to get some more starting propane. and will adjust the temp for start up per carlos first.

mean while I have been researching while i can.

brian gafford former DRCE
Old 03-20-2014, 08:03 AM
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Brian,
Thanks for identifying. I went to the monthly club meeting last night. I still have my RAM 500 and use the WREN 54 manual for service ideas. I think the Funsonic is a similar engine. Once when I had problems with RPM read out RAM suggested I degauss the front of the engine. I don't remember the exact procedure but I remember it involved running a strong magnet near the front of the engine. Bob Price who designed the RAM ECU may have made that suggestion to me.

I think I am now using the compressor nut with magnet that I purchased from WREN on my RAM 500. I am sure you have to get a stable RPM reading before the ECU will work properly.

Sid
Old 03-20-2014, 04:36 PM
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so i played some more with it.
did the magnet over the sensor. and i seem to be reading rpms.
No i am getting a failure to accelerate.

As it seems to get going on the propane, i wait for the pump to take over and ..shut down..

I disconnected the filter and shut off. same effect.
i then disconnected the fuel line from the turbine and told it to start.
it lights then the kero pump pumps slowly.. but that may be enough , i mean it is expecting the at fuel to accelerate...

could this be a fuel delivery problem?

i will check fuel lines in the turbine this week end. see how much i can see with out removing the compressor from the shaft.
Old 03-20-2014, 05:04 PM
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Check fuel pump prime ,I think the pump is good could be the parameters ,if I have time I will check my and post for you ,ones I haved problem with mi fs-70 and that was the fuel value to low so I gain the fuel flow and go no problem ,when I haved problem with the magnet the rpm reading was good up to 50-65 thousand and 0000000 turbine stopped .
Old 03-20-2014, 05:07 PM
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sidgates
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Brian,
I would disconnect the Kero line from the engine, aim the disconnected line in a jar, attempt a start and when it starts ramping is it pumping Kero?

Sid
Old 03-21-2014, 04:36 PM
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ok, so I did the whipping of the rpm sensor with a magnet. the using an air gun, blew the fuel back through the pump, and then blew air through the fuel inlet on the turbine. now it is going further than before. but now getting , not reaching rpm. but it is going further than before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUG66...ature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUG66UxEk30&feature=youtu.be
Old 03-21-2014, 05:10 PM
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Brian,
I watched the run video and it looks like you are close to running. The temp looks a little high to me. Do you know if the thermocouple is the correct distance in the tail cone? If that looks right I would try to look up the tail cone while running and see if the flame is even all around the diameter of the engine. If you have any blocked injector tubes the flame won't be even.
Old 03-21-2014, 05:14 PM
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I am thinking the same. I didn't get video , but it looks like it is uneven and was spitting on one side. may also explain why it is closer after I blew air threw the fuel inlet.
Old 03-21-2014, 06:02 PM
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Brian,
I don't have any info on the ECU you have but I have had problems with my RAM ECU getting a wrong setting. If the temp parameter was set too low the engine would probably cut off fuel during the ramp to idle rpm. My problem with the RAM ECU was the time parameter for acceleration got set to "0" for my mid range. When I tried to accelerate to full power the engine would flame out at 80,000 rpm every time. This is not a parameter that is normally available to the end user. There are approx. 250 parameters in my ECU program. Only a very few are available to the end user. When I obtained the info in how to access all the parameters I found my mid range problem. When the time was set to "0" the ECU commanded the fuel pump to jump from 1/3 throttle to 2/3 throttle instantaneously, hence the flame out. I had notice that occasionally I got some strange bars on my data terminal. I found out that the bars were the indication it was in the programing mode. I found I had a bad connector on the cable that plugged into the data terminal. When I repaired the cable no more programming problems. The ECU designer said it was not possible that the bad cable put the ECU in the programming mode but I saw it happen more than once.
Old 03-21-2014, 06:19 PM
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Let me check the setting on my fs-52 I think you fuel start setting it's of ,the thermocouple it's in good position 55-65mm in the nozzle and the flames look ok to ,change the propane valve to 30% .
Old 03-21-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tampaflyer View Post
I am thinking the same. I didn't get video , but it looks like it is uneven and was spitting on one side. may also explain why it is closer after I blew air threw the fuel inlet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian,
I had plugged injectors on my RAM 500, I didn't know what was wrong at the time but engine popped a lot while running and would flame out a lot. My engine had run OK at lower altitude and the problems occurred at Denver altitude. I thought it was possibly an altitude problem with RAM 500 engines. After weighing my options I decided to take it apart and have a look. I found 4 out of 12 of the injector needles plugged up. I cleaned them and tested them per the WREN 54 manual. I also checked the balance per the WREN manual while I had it apart. I made a very small adjustment on the balance and it was smoother after my work than when new.

If you decide it is necessary to disassemble your engine I think I have some written instructions that may help to read before you start. Let me know. It would be helpful to have a fuel pump and ECU that are know are good to try before you disassemble your engine.

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