BANNED: Fly Eagle Jets from Florida Jets
#176
Just because someone is following the flight rules doesn't mean that the airframe cannot become uncontrollable and be directed toward the crowd. The odds of this happing are greatly increased by allowing a known defective product to participate verses letting them alone and simply hoping nothing will happen. The purpose of the ban is to REDUCE the risk by disallowing a manufacturer with known defects in construction and design to participate. Any time we have good information that can significantly reduce the risk that we all take and are exposed to at every event has to be a positive.
#177
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Len...
What your missing is the fact that the FEJ aircraft have serious structural flaws that cause them to self destruct in flight. Once the failure begins, you no longer have directional control of the aircraft. With the speed these aircraft travel, there is plenty of energy remaining to plant one well behind the flight-line; "Operational Rules" go out the window when you no longer have control.....
What your missing is the fact that the FEJ aircraft have serious structural flaws that cause them to self destruct in flight. Once the failure begins, you no longer have directional control of the aircraft. With the speed these aircraft travel, there is plenty of energy remaining to plant one well behind the flight-line; "Operational Rules" go out the window when you no longer have control.....
#180
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......
If we do not field test new technology, the current technology will never advance. Without field testing new technology (e.g. honeycombed components, DSMX, telemetry, etc., etc.) the components made available to us will never get better and/or become less challenging. Without the challenge the aspect of the hobby, the hobby may even die. For me trying new tech is fun. W/o new tech to try, the challenge of flying jets seem somewhat boring. And,.. companies that provide new technology take risks. Sometimes the risks do not payoff. Sometimes the consequences spell demise for an unresponsive company. But, they may just figure as long as we keep buying the riskier stuff, why should they change?
..........
In the highlighted paragraph above lies the fatal flaw in your reasoning in this case. Although true, pushing the limits and implementing new technologies is not only wanted, but necessary to improve our hobby, indeed, the very world we live in.
FEJ introduced a new way to produce and market RC jets. The "new" and "challenging" way they decided to produce them was in new ways for RC jets to disintegrate in flight.
And successful they have been. Overwhelmingly so.
A reasonable approach would be not to fly a product that has a very high likely hood of destroying it self, onboard electronics and fuel and, certainly around crowds, other people.
A jet rally is certainly a place to show off new tech (new tech that should've been tried elsewhere first) but is not a place to show of new tech that shows off the aforementioned magic disintegrating R/C jet.
And lastly, the CD is THE BOSS. What he/she says is law at their jet meet. Although I have my own thoughts on the good ole boy which is FT, when a guy is right, he's right and you have to give it to him. Good for you FT.
DubD took us to Jurassic park on that one! LOL!
#181
Ultimately Frank's decision to ban these airframes is the right thing to do. It is the CD's responsibly to make sure the event is safe. Allowing a well known unsafe (prone to failure) airframe to participate in the event is just plain negligent. Good thinking on this one.
Tim Johnson
AMA District X AVP
Tim Johnson
AMA District X AVP
Last edited by TimJ; 08-26-2014 at 02:55 PM.
#184
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http://youtu.be/aWjckvlCy40?t=13m43s
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
Last edited by rcpete347; 08-26-2014 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Popcorn
#186
http://youtu.be/aWjckvlCy40?t=13m43s
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
#187
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I'm curious, what attracts you to the Jet forums if you don't own a jet nor plan to own one? Has this debate gone outside the Jet Forums on the prop forums? Just curious.
Andy
Oh, and I agree whole heartedly with your post. If this were a "toys R Us" toy the government would ban them.
Andy
Oh, and I agree whole heartedly with your post. If this were a "toys R Us" toy the government would ban them.
I've come back because I've been interested in building techniques, some of the adhesives, radio equipment, etc.
And my entire life has been about model aircraft. Pretty much everything I've chosen to do has revolved around model aircraft from education choices to everything else. The reason I learned about photography was so I could get construction articles published in model magazines. The reason I bought my first computer was so I could learn to use CAD so I could draw model airplanes. The reason I choose where I live is so there is a space to put a workshop. You get the point.
#188
What brought me here in the first place were thread titles on the front page of RCU that I didn't know were in the Jet forum because the title didn't indicate it was a jet topic. The title itself interested me. Likewise I've gone into buggy, tank and boat threads as well.
I've come back because I've been interested in building techniques, some of the adhesives, radio equipment, etc.
And my entire life has been about model aircraft. Pretty much everything I've chosen to do has revolved around model aircraft from education choices to everything else. The reason I learned about photography was so I could get construction articles published in model magazines. The reason I bought my first computer was so I could learn to use CAD so I could draw model airplanes. The reason I choose where I live is so there is a space to put a workshop. You get the point.
I've come back because I've been interested in building techniques, some of the adhesives, radio equipment, etc.
And my entire life has been about model aircraft. Pretty much everything I've chosen to do has revolved around model aircraft from education choices to everything else. The reason I learned about photography was so I could get construction articles published in model magazines. The reason I bought my first computer was so I could learn to use CAD so I could draw model airplanes. The reason I choose where I live is so there is a space to put a workshop. You get the point.
#189
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http://youtu.be/aWjckvlCy40?t=13m43s
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
http://youtu.be/tgLlt2ziHIQ
http://youtu.be/dMZwYHJFDe0
Get out the popcorn.
Rcpete
I come across threads on the forums every once in while that indicate people think space age materials are magic. That just putting them in the airframe will be enough to make it survive anything.
In particular folks want to add carbon fiber to spars just because. it cracks me up when a guy wants to add carbon fiber to the spars of a .40 size plane. Sure it will make the spar stronger but it will make the plane heavier and the balsa spar was already more than strong enough. He didn't gain anything but a heavier, more expensive airplane. But at least he didn't weaken it.
Maybe FEJ should try that instead of whatever it is they're doing.
#190
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#191
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Caf,
Here is the thread about the F-18.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...perhornet.html
Cheers,
Beave
Here is the thread about the F-18.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-j...perhornet.html
Cheers,
Beave
I've seen the F14 crash several times but not the F18 or the Hawk. How that guy got the F18 back I have no idea. That elevator is just flopping around. No flight video to go with it but he's right that it's nothing short of a miracle that he managed to land the plane.
I come across threads on the forums every once in while that indicate people think space age materials are magic. That just putting them in the airframe will be enough to make it survive anything.
In particular folks want to add carbon fiber to spars just because. it cracks me up when a guy wants to add carbon fiber to the spars of a .40 size plane. Sure it will make the spar stronger but it will make the plane heavier and the balsa spar was already more than strong enough. He didn't gain anything but a heavier, more expensive airplane. But at least he didn't weaken it.
Maybe FEJ should try that instead of whatever it is they're doing.
I come across threads on the forums every once in while that indicate people think space age materials are magic. That just putting them in the airframe will be enough to make it survive anything.
In particular folks want to add carbon fiber to spars just because. it cracks me up when a guy wants to add carbon fiber to the spars of a .40 size plane. Sure it will make the spar stronger but it will make the plane heavier and the balsa spar was already more than strong enough. He didn't gain anything but a heavier, more expensive airplane. But at least he didn't weaken it.
Maybe FEJ should try that instead of whatever it is they're doing.
#194
After running our first West MI Jet Rally, several other plane events and emceeing MI Jets as well as working as a MI Jets Flight Line crew member, and as a relative newbie, I am wondering what I am missing here? It seems to me that:
No matter what plane you fly and radio you use, etc. there is a risk of catastrophic failure. The consequence of this risk is drastically reduced by never allowing the energy of the aircraft to be directed toward persons attending and running the event. Maybe some of you recall this from our Turbine Pilot's Operational Rules? I have watched Lewis fly the Hawk, and he is one of the better pilots to consistently practice this requirement.
The Turbine Pilot is supposed to ensure all the Operational Rules are followed, not just particular ones. The effective flight-line crew also ensures that all pilots follow the rules (e.g. do not allow the energy of the plane be directed toward people.) If organizers and their flight line crew can not ensure that the rules are being met, what are they doing trying to run the show or allowing a show to go on at a site where this can not be effectively achieved?
That being said, other than the pilot who is losing the investment, who cares if a plane disintegrates and/or crashes. For us, it is apparently an acceptable risk or we would not fly. Different people have different risk tolerance. So, .. some us fly riskier planes, at riskier speeds, into riskier maneuvers, etc. etc. As unfortunate as it is for the pilot's pocketbook, a crash makes for a good spectator show. Everybody remembers the crashes! But, if the event organizers are allowing the energy of any plane to be directed at the people on-site, they need to be looking at themselves or the site versus banning specific planes or radios, ... because sooner or later all brands will have a crash. From an event perspective, follow the rules and who cares which plane crashes or not?
However, I do agree with forcing implementation of newer technology once it has proven to effectively and significantly reduce significant risks. I think the move to 2.4 Mhz from 72 Mhz was good. I think using DSMX versus DSM is good for high density events. But trashing the older or newer unproven technology because a particular event prefers to avoid or minimize certain risks at certain events seems to go over the line.
If we do not field test new technology, the current technology will never advance. Without field testing new technology (e.g. honeycombed components, DSMX, telemetry, etc., etc.) the components made available to us will never get better and/or become less challenging. Without the challenge the aspect of the hobby, the hobby may even die. For me trying new tech is fun. W/o new tech to try, the challenge of flying jets seem somewhat boring. And,.. companies that provide new technology take risks. Sometimes the risks do not payoff. Sometimes the consequences spell demise for an unresponsive company. But, they may just figure as long as we keep buying the riskier stuff, why should they change?
In summary: I do not agree with banning a manufacturer's product. I do feel that effectively implementing our Operational Rules and using a flightline crew as a second level of defense to ensure the Operational Rules are being effectively followed reduces the involved risks to an acceptable level. I do agree with grounding a particular pilot who does not practice safe flying techniques (i.e. at a minimum IAW with the Operational Rules.)
Just my thoughts, as I mulled this banning issue over for application at our next Jet Rally.
No matter what plane you fly and radio you use, etc. there is a risk of catastrophic failure. The consequence of this risk is drastically reduced by never allowing the energy of the aircraft to be directed toward persons attending and running the event. Maybe some of you recall this from our Turbine Pilot's Operational Rules? I have watched Lewis fly the Hawk, and he is one of the better pilots to consistently practice this requirement.
The Turbine Pilot is supposed to ensure all the Operational Rules are followed, not just particular ones. The effective flight-line crew also ensures that all pilots follow the rules (e.g. do not allow the energy of the plane be directed toward people.) If organizers and their flight line crew can not ensure that the rules are being met, what are they doing trying to run the show or allowing a show to go on at a site where this can not be effectively achieved?
That being said, other than the pilot who is losing the investment, who cares if a plane disintegrates and/or crashes. For us, it is apparently an acceptable risk or we would not fly. Different people have different risk tolerance. So, .. some us fly riskier planes, at riskier speeds, into riskier maneuvers, etc. etc. As unfortunate as it is for the pilot's pocketbook, a crash makes for a good spectator show. Everybody remembers the crashes! But, if the event organizers are allowing the energy of any plane to be directed at the people on-site, they need to be looking at themselves or the site versus banning specific planes or radios, ... because sooner or later all brands will have a crash. From an event perspective, follow the rules and who cares which plane crashes or not?
However, I do agree with forcing implementation of newer technology once it has proven to effectively and significantly reduce significant risks. I think the move to 2.4 Mhz from 72 Mhz was good. I think using DSMX versus DSM is good for high density events. But trashing the older or newer unproven technology because a particular event prefers to avoid or minimize certain risks at certain events seems to go over the line.
If we do not field test new technology, the current technology will never advance. Without field testing new technology (e.g. honeycombed components, DSMX, telemetry, etc., etc.) the components made available to us will never get better and/or become less challenging. Without the challenge the aspect of the hobby, the hobby may even die. For me trying new tech is fun. W/o new tech to try, the challenge of flying jets seem somewhat boring. And,.. companies that provide new technology take risks. Sometimes the risks do not payoff. Sometimes the consequences spell demise for an unresponsive company. But, they may just figure as long as we keep buying the riskier stuff, why should they change?
In summary: I do not agree with banning a manufacturer's product. I do feel that effectively implementing our Operational Rules and using a flightline crew as a second level of defense to ensure the Operational Rules are being effectively followed reduces the involved risks to an acceptable level. I do agree with grounding a particular pilot who does not practice safe flying techniques (i.e. at a minimum IAW with the Operational Rules.)
Just my thoughts, as I mulled this banning issue over for application at our next Jet Rally.
#195
My Feedback: (67)
No kidding, it's laughable at this point! One thing is for certain, as long as discowingnut is enlightening us with his ideas and burning up his keyboard on RCU he isnt touching or flying his FEJ models...thus ensuring their longevity...and proving how long they can last. Perhaps a good strategy.
#196
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This video I found to be very interesting. Not trying to be alarmist but rather just food for thought. It's long but has some interesting findings by the NTSB regarding flying something that is untested, overstressing an airframe to the point of deformation, flutter(starting to sound familiar?) and improper fastener replacement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMmh...s_digest-vrecs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMmh...s_digest-vrecs
Last edited by dbsonic; 08-27-2014 at 11:03 AM.
#198
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FEJ Should be Banned from this hobby !!!
Guys...
I am really trying to open a new post but due to that i am new to the page I am not used to it so therefore I will make my comments on FEJ already opened posts!
This is really a shame to our hobby and they should not even exist!
Before I even placed my order, I did some homework reading on the forums for the FEJ Company.
There were many that criticized this company and talked against it but despite those posts I decided to proceed with my order on the 24 of December 2013 due to a guy called Johnny Whong that said that all those comments in the forums are lies!
Guys...I can confirm with proof and evidence of emails that the liar in this case is only one !!!! JOHNY WHONG !
And i will tell you why !
I ordered my F18 1/7 SCALE model on the 24 of December 2013 with prowork done, lighting system, cockpit, tip missiles pre-installed JR Servos and Kevlar fuel tanks.
All was confirmed and the delivery was going to be from 4-7 weeks.
Well to cut a long story short, all those stories and lies complaints by other modellers are very true as i was just told that..... “your model is ready and will be shipped next week" for three months without receiving anything.
I did not like it at all and I started to be suspicious and afraid that all the money paid for was gone..... By thieves from FEJ !!!!
After several emails and complains (10/1) meaning that for every 10 emails i sent i received one.......i finally received my model almost 8 months later but............ ONLY Frame and landing gears!!!!!
This F****** did not install the lighting system, servos which should be pre-installed, cockpit, thrust pipe, fuel tanks.....NOTHING and everything was paid for including one engine P180 which was cancelled and money never returned!!!!!
Johnny Wong will not slip away with this and i challenge anyone who knows this guys to contact me....!
I will continue and post with detailed information if i don't get what i paid for and demand that this liars and thief's are definitely banned from every event and from this hobby.
Guys.....Be very careful with this and DO NOT ORDER......They trick all customers and just leave you with words and no actions!
Shame on them!!!
I am really trying to open a new post but due to that i am new to the page I am not used to it so therefore I will make my comments on FEJ already opened posts!
This is really a shame to our hobby and they should not even exist!
Before I even placed my order, I did some homework reading on the forums for the FEJ Company.
There were many that criticized this company and talked against it but despite those posts I decided to proceed with my order on the 24 of December 2013 due to a guy called Johnny Whong that said that all those comments in the forums are lies!
Guys...I can confirm with proof and evidence of emails that the liar in this case is only one !!!! JOHNY WHONG !
And i will tell you why !
I ordered my F18 1/7 SCALE model on the 24 of December 2013 with prowork done, lighting system, cockpit, tip missiles pre-installed JR Servos and Kevlar fuel tanks.
All was confirmed and the delivery was going to be from 4-7 weeks.
Well to cut a long story short, all those stories and lies complaints by other modellers are very true as i was just told that..... “your model is ready and will be shipped next week" for three months without receiving anything.
I did not like it at all and I started to be suspicious and afraid that all the money paid for was gone..... By thieves from FEJ !!!!
After several emails and complains (10/1) meaning that for every 10 emails i sent i received one.......i finally received my model almost 8 months later but............ ONLY Frame and landing gears!!!!!
This F****** did not install the lighting system, servos which should be pre-installed, cockpit, thrust pipe, fuel tanks.....NOTHING and everything was paid for including one engine P180 which was cancelled and money never returned!!!!!
Johnny Wong will not slip away with this and i challenge anyone who knows this guys to contact me....!
I will continue and post with detailed information if i don't get what i paid for and demand that this liars and thief's are definitely banned from every event and from this hobby.
Guys.....Be very careful with this and DO NOT ORDER......They trick all customers and just leave you with words and no actions!
Shame on them!!!
#199
My Feedback: (6)
Guys...
Before I even placed my order, I did some homework reading on the forums for the FEJ Company.
There were many that criticized this company and talked against it but despite those posts I decided to proceed with my order on the 24 of December 2013 due to a guy called Johnny Whong that said that all those comments in the forums are lies!
Guys...I can confirm with proof and evidence of emails that the liar in this case is only one !!!! JOHNY WHONG !
Before I even placed my order, I did some homework reading on the forums for the FEJ Company.
There were many that criticized this company and talked against it but despite those posts I decided to proceed with my order on the 24 of December 2013 due to a guy called Johnny Whong that said that all those comments in the forums are lies!
Guys...I can confirm with proof and evidence of emails that the liar in this case is only one !!!! JOHNY WHONG !
Mike
#200
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Mike
Very good question !
i was not worried about the quality of the product since the issues they had was not on the latest production models and not on the 1/7 scale F18, this was also proofed by many including Steven Bishop.
However the rest was true calling him for a thief and liar stealing peoples money..... did not sound like it though before the purchase was made.
Its pretty much like looking on a blond girl from behind and thinking " waow what a beauty" ....until you realized that its not when you standing in front of her... if you know what i mean.
All that chit chat **** talk without knowing the reality behind the promises and stories he is selling, ripped off many more including me!
Someone needs to act to void further more modelers ending up in the same position !
GV
Very good question !
i was not worried about the quality of the product since the issues they had was not on the latest production models and not on the 1/7 scale F18, this was also proofed by many including Steven Bishop.
However the rest was true calling him for a thief and liar stealing peoples money..... did not sound like it though before the purchase was made.
Its pretty much like looking on a blond girl from behind and thinking " waow what a beauty" ....until you realized that its not when you standing in front of her... if you know what i mean.
All that chit chat **** talk without knowing the reality behind the promises and stories he is selling, ripped off many more including me!
Someone needs to act to void further more modelers ending up in the same position !
GV