Just as an aside, I'd be very careful mentioning to anyone that you may intend using 'their' parts in a JetJoe (I'm assuming here that the combustion chamber is to go into a JJ – if not, kindly disregard the following rant).

There seems to be such a rabid hatred of anything to do with JJ's out there - if the many threads I've been to that even mention the word 'JetJoe' are anything to go by.

There's people out there who simply can not and will not accept that anyone in this world would even contemplate buying a JetJoe - let alone ever get it started or, Heaven Forbid, have one running reliably.

They seem to find great pleasure in trying to turn you inside-out and belittle you because you bought a "cheap Chinese copy" - as if you have to justify your right of freedom of choice and how you spend you hard-earned $.

They know no boundaries when it comes to trying to humiliate you or trying to shame you for having purchased a JJ. They will lie through their teeth and demand proof that can start your JJ more than once – if at all. They will create challenges that not even the best-of-the-best Turbines have a snowball's chance in Hell of scoring a 10 out of 10.

Sadly, there are those who have made it their mission in life to try to dissuade anyone and everyone from ever purchasing anything from Joe. And they will stop at nothing to try to prove their point.

I have given up on trying to hold any logical, rational adult discussion with such people. They are beyond reproach. They live in the past - it was crap 10 years ago, so it must still be crap today. Ostriches.

But be very, very wary - while they're quite content to mendaciously bag this product without any coherent proof, they will immediately try to sell you theirs. That in itself loses respect with me. And I won't deal with anyone whom I don't respect. I'd rather go without than have anything to do with people like that.

Wankers. Need I say more?

BJ

Hey BJ , For your reference its not for a jetjoe, its a KJ66 upgrade ..

Awesome, his tirade was for nought!

BTW, I have a fake copy of Microsoft Office 2007 that was directly copied from a Microsoft original, but then re-labelled Office Joe. I guess by BJ's logic, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with me selling that (hundreds of copies even) for half of the genuine Office price. And anyone buying it would be in their rights to do so and could, in fact, be VERY proud that they are a smart shopper!!! Or would they too be a thief?

Wow, what a twisted world some live in....

Uh guys he wasnt ranting against JJs he was telling you what others may have to say about them. That said good luck with your 66 and getting a can for it.

Now on to a question that I have about my JJ1400. how much flame is acceptable coming out of the tail pipe? i only get it during acceleration but dont want to creat issues. as for temps im only getting about 600 degrees with my probe being close to 2mm inside the pipe. just wanna make sure im not creating a problem.

You shouldnt get any flame during acceleration ..

Does you JJ always do that , since you bought it ?

Woket man, you never heard of open office. The open source freely offered "office" alternative fully compatible with "other" office suites..

It does happen in the IT and gaming world all the time... Ideas are easily copied and changed enough to avoid copyright..

Maybe its some "other" perfect world that you live in...

I quit using chewing tobacco so I could use that 5 grand a year to get into jets. I'll be starting out with a JJ for sure. Especially for the reason of the only turbine guys who constantly bash JJ are trying to sell something else. Another thing. Why do I want to spend 5 grand on the same thing I can get for $1500 at JJ to learn on? I bet I don't have any more problems than I would with one of the other peoples.

Just like FEJ and anyone else who is new. How about we all try to improve every manufacturer regardless of who they are so all of our prices go down.

If you don't like JJ or FEJ, trying being part of the solution, not just bash them.

After all, regardless of what the current administration and the people who support them thinks, competition is the best for lowering costs.

More competition equals lower prices, or are we trying to purposefully keep prices high?

Can't wait to place my order.

For the simple reason that you will not get the same thing. You will get junk. Worse yet, junk that was copied, poorly, off of someone elses hard work (and the Wrens do run and run VERY well). And I'll bet you have WAY more problems, WAY more!!!

And yes, I tend to bash JJ cause they are copied junk that have caused many newbies to spend $$$ that they could have used for a good running used motor instead of throwing it in the trash with a JJ. And I am not selling anything. The last time I was a rep was 2003 for TJT.

Jetbono,

it did when i first started running it however i made a few adjustments and its better now. i slowed down the acceleration a tad and that took care of it.



Woketman i usually tend to agree with your sentiments however i bought my JJ for the same reason as stated above. aside from just getting things adjusted right i have not had any trouble with mine at all. its pretty new though and i will say that i held off for a long time due to the problems they had. i wont flame you for your opinion as we all have them. if you want to buy the more expensive engines thats great but please dont look down your nose and disrespect me for my decisions.

I have been involved sales for many many years.. And the worst kind of salesmen use these basic tactics.. Its called FUD.. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.. Preys on the basic human need for security..

The sad thing is they tend to be sucessful just based on poor sales tactics..

The other thing as bad as this is sales by stealth.. people who bash competitors products while not making it clear they sell an alternative..
Makes them seem like an unbiased expert where, though they maybe an expert.. their bias is palpable..

What sort or flame are you getting Pulsar?

Is it birght orange/red, or a blueish kind of 'smudge'?

BJ

Are all your injectors clean and running equal ? Thats where I would look first if you ve already reduced acceleration from ECU ..

I too have gone the way of the jj1400 to get into jets. There seems to be alot of guys running them without problems so I hope to be there too. Cost was my biggest factor, if I'm going to plant my jet into the ground I'd rather not spend over twice the price to do it. I know some would comment that if I plan on crashing maybe I shouldn't be flying jets. I started with cheap nitro engine and kits too for the same reason.

The argument about JetJoe turbine being "copies", and that implies some cheating or copyright infringment, implies that all the "higher end" turbines (JetCat, Wren, etc) are all different from each other. Seems to me they are all "copies" of the same basic design.

But to each his own, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

I understand your position. It is just that it burns my a_s that everyone who pays JJ is stealing from those who innovate. And the less reason the innovators have to innovate, the worse off we all are. And let's not kid ourselves: the MOST innovation Jet Joe has ever shown is when he innovates by choosing the wrong/innadequate materials!

Been a bit since I have posted to a JJ thread. Seems like time again. You guy just dont get it. The basic turbine design that you call "copies" of the Kamps, KJ66 etc is true, they all use a wheel, compressor, same basic burner and needles. But you cant but a Jetcat burner in an Artes or SImJet-none of those engines have interchangeable parts. THey are copies in the same way that a Ford 351 is a copy of GM 350-crankshaft, pistons, connecting rods OH valves etc. Here is where you guys jump off the rails The JJ 1200 and 1400 were not "copies" in the aforementioned cite- They were MADE DIRECTLY FROM WREN PLANS that "Joe" bought from Wren. The parts were interchangeable with Wren (with the exception that the quality and materials caused JJs to freeze, melt and you name it ) Jeez-Joe even had the gonads to call up Wren when he was copying the motor and ask questions regarding construction. Do you have any idea of the thousands of hours that the Wren team put into design of the CC for that engine?? SO you think it is right for Joe to steal all those thousands of hours of work??? Thank goodness that Joe uses what ever metal he can find in the recycle bin to make his motors-else they might have put Wren out of business and then who would innovate, design, dream and construct out toys-Not you all, certainly not Joe. Scotty

Yea I see you are in no rush to be part of the solution.

If you think about it they are all copied off of one original idea. They are all centrifugal flow turbines. Maybe some different electronics, material blends is about all. So in a sense the "they copied" crap is an excuse.

Show me the company that makes a true axial flow and I'll be the first to say they didn't copy anyone else, until they they all have copied the first one no matter who made it.

I've heard 5 positive JJ stories to every one negative.

BB64 its just a blueish smudge now. i had a little red/orange before just intermittenly tho. the blueish smudge isnt there much now either. i looked up the tail with it at an idle and didnt see any blanks in the flame pattern inside so im confident that its ok there. the red/orange was just during accelleration once it was up to where i put the throttle it would clear up.

about what timeframe should i expect from idle to full throttle?

Let's not forget also that many of the major players also paid a fee for the KJ-66 basic design, then innovater from there. Jet Joe? Nothing but a rip-off...... Direct copy of Wren blood sweat and tears. Thanks for once again pointing that out GSR.

Hope you guys can sleep at night knowing that you are complicent in theft....

I read somewhere that it should be in the vicinity of around 3 seconds from idle to full power - but that was on a JJ-3000 from memory.

I too get a blueish smudge coming out of the lower exhaust area of my first JJ-3000. You can see it do it quite clearly here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUli0n2KhME

The newer JJ-3000 is the one on the starboard side and it doesn't seem to do it at all. Though I just noticed on watching the vid again that there is a pronounced blow-back out of the propane Festo fitting on the port side Turbine around the time when the flame starts. Maybe that has something to do with it in my case. This was the first dual spool-up I'd tried, and I got lazy - instead of each Turbine having it's own propane bottle, I used just the the one can and disconnected it after the port Turbine had spooled-up and plugged it into the starboard Turbine for its start-up sequence. Maybe it was just sucking some fresh air through the open Festo and into the Propane jet/s, thus causing an air/fuel imbalance in that part of the Turbine? Dunno - but I'll keep my eyes on it in future test-runs.

BJ

PS - I've only ever gotten the orange/red flame during a wet start, and that's probably due to the overdose of Kero.

If you're getting it during runs, maybe you have your Kero parm in the FADEC wicked up a tad too much? Brett could probably diagnose this a lot better than myself - I'm still in the 'learning' phase... LoL

BJ

You can get a really good idea of your flame pattern if you start your Turbine up in the late evening/night time, Pulsar.

Here's a vid we made a while back of a night-burn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh0xpEQlAK4

It's not the best quality vid, as the only Cam I had available was my little Samsung ES15 stills camera, but you get the general idea.

BJ

PS - make sure that you're in really good with your neighbours before you try something like this - chances are you won't be after you do. LoL. And they're even LOUDER at night...

Has anyone had any luck with the jetjoe 3000 or is the same old JetJoe story?

BJ64 thats pretty much what mine is like now when i run it. its slower on the accelleration a bit but thats about how it is.

From Artes site directly.. one of the original makers of the KJ-66

As a result of the quality of the engine, RAM adopted and manufactured it in USA, Simjet in Denmark and Jet-Cat in Germany (instead they are actually using their own components), in Austria, Switzerland, S. Africa, New Zealand, Australia, etc. other manufacturers are using the same design and sometimes original components. Nowadays the only turbine of proven quality with his own design is AMT that builds in Holland and also in USA.

No mention of license fee's or being authorised to do so...

So do you own an AMT then, given it seem to be the only original? Or perhaps Jet Central.. artes original creations..

And what if a US based company did the same thing?

I have two (see the first vid a couple of posts back).

I had a few issues with the first one - all down to my lack of experience and knowledge, and a not-so-good set-up. Brett helped me enormously, and with his advice and feedback, I got it all sorted and she starts first pop every time now.

My second JJ-3000 arrived just on Xmas. I set it up using the knowledge I'd gained from my first Turbine, and it started first time out of the box, and went straight to idle. Smooth as silk and no issues whatsoever

Hope this helps...

BJ