Skymaster F-4E phantom
10-25-2006 | 07:48 AM
#151
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
True, but the amount of lift generated by the fuselage varys greatly on the design. The F-14 generates more than 50% of its lift with the fuselage. The F-15 still has about 30%, due to the wide flatish layout.
The F-4 has a fairly narrow and relatively high fuselage which is not very capable of generating lift....i don't have exact numbers, but judging from the layout i'd say 5%-10% max. Also when considering G-loads on the rod, is is important to figure fuselage weight only! Wings generate the lift needed to raise themselves, so no loads for this are induced into the rod.
I dimension my rods for +/-20Gs....true performance will probably be around 25-30, but i'm rather safe than sorry, especially if something should go wrong and a situation should arise in which i have to "slam the stick". 20Gs are still a turn radius of 500ft at 120mph....
The F-4 has a fairly narrow and relatively high fuselage which is not very capable of generating lift....i don't have exact numbers, but judging from the layout i'd say 5%-10% max. Also when considering G-loads on the rod, is is important to figure fuselage weight only! Wings generate the lift needed to raise themselves, so no loads for this are induced into the rod.
I dimension my rods for +/-20Gs....true performance will probably be around 25-30, but i'm rather safe than sorry, especially if something should go wrong and a situation should arise in which i have to "slam the stick". 20Gs are still a turn radius of 500ft at 120mph....
10-25-2006 | 08:10 AM
#152
Banned
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
All true.
But the most useful and valid testing is simply to take the first three or four PRODUCTION models and PUT THEM IN THE AIR. Give them to reps and have them fly the living heck out of them.
More problematic than folding spars is flutter, for one thing.
Also, it just gives feedback on a whole bunch of different things, like how different engines are installed, if the radio tray or servo mouting layout has problems, if there is consistency to the manufacturing, all that stuff.
Did Skymaster do that with this plane? Nope. Is it POSSIBLE that some will go in due to a problem...sure. Not likely, but possible. Skymaster has built a lot of planes before, and their non-mathematical best instincts ARE based on considerable experience, so it will all PROBABLY be fine. In a perfect world, they would send a handful of EVERY plane out to reps to be tested. But this is not a perfect world, right now, they are trying to make their way through a sea of very suddenly harsh new competition, with a new factory, and here they have guys like Adil perfectly willing to buy the plane at this stage, credit card already out, willing to buy direct from the factory. Would YOU say no? I'd say Adil knows his risks, so does skymaster.
But the most useful and valid testing is simply to take the first three or four PRODUCTION models and PUT THEM IN THE AIR. Give them to reps and have them fly the living heck out of them.
More problematic than folding spars is flutter, for one thing.
Also, it just gives feedback on a whole bunch of different things, like how different engines are installed, if the radio tray or servo mouting layout has problems, if there is consistency to the manufacturing, all that stuff.
Did Skymaster do that with this plane? Nope. Is it POSSIBLE that some will go in due to a problem...sure. Not likely, but possible. Skymaster has built a lot of planes before, and their non-mathematical best instincts ARE based on considerable experience, so it will all PROBABLY be fine. In a perfect world, they would send a handful of EVERY plane out to reps to be tested. But this is not a perfect world, right now, they are trying to make their way through a sea of very suddenly harsh new competition, with a new factory, and here they have guys like Adil perfectly willing to buy the plane at this stage, credit card already out, willing to buy direct from the factory. Would YOU say no? I'd say Adil knows his risks, so does skymaster.
10-25-2006 | 08:35 AM
#153
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
hey, you take a risk with everything .. you would think that something like a BVM bandit would be perfectly engineered and tested, and look at what happened to Adil's .. the wings just ripped off because of bad spars ... others have been fluttering apart for years now as well .. and this is a plane that goes through a ton of engineering and testing. ( im just using this as an example of a highly tested quality manufactured airframe representative of the upper standard of RC jet engineering )
Some issues with kits failing out there are with the actual manufacturing .. others ( like flutter) are typically user induced ....
I'll tell you what, the thing that stands out the most about this F4 is not even the detail and outline that is actually more scale than other popular F-4s on the market, but it is how beefy and rugged the constructions is. I can see this plane being flown hard without much of a problem. Though Adil is looking to fly this plane in a "scale" fashion, he is no pansy (at least not in the way he flies .. i can't comment otherwise
) and im sure it will be put through its paces [8D] .. and if the plane is to fail, at least it will be a spectacular crash considering its size
Voy
Some issues with kits failing out there are with the actual manufacturing .. others ( like flutter) are typically user induced ....
I'll tell you what, the thing that stands out the most about this F4 is not even the detail and outline that is actually more scale than other popular F-4s on the market, but it is how beefy and rugged the constructions is. I can see this plane being flown hard without much of a problem. Though Adil is looking to fly this plane in a "scale" fashion, he is no pansy (at least not in the way he flies .. i can't comment otherwise
) and im sure it will be put through its paces [8D] .. and if the plane is to fail, at least it will be a spectacular crash considering its size Voy
10-25-2006 | 08:54 AM
#155
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Go WoJo youDaMan
ORIGINAL: wojtek
hey, you take a risk with everything .. you would think that something like a BVM bandit would be perfectly engineered and tested, and look at what happened to Adil's .. the wings just ripped off because of bad spars ... others have been fluttering apart for years now as well .. and this is a plane that goes through a ton of engineering and testing. ( im just using this as an example of a highly tested quality manufactured airframe representative of the upper standard of RC jet engineering )
Some issues with kits failing out there are with the actual manufacturing .. others ( like flutter) are typically user induced ....
I'll tell you what, the thing that stands out the most about this F4 is not even the detail and outline that is actually more scale than other popular F-4s on the market, but it is how beefy and rugged the constructions is. I can see this plane being flown hard without much of a problem. Though Adil is looking to fly this plane in a "scale" fashion, he is no pansy (at least not in the way he flies .. i can't comment otherwise ) and im sure it will be put through its paces [8D] .. and if the plane is to fail, at least it will be a spectacular crash considering its size
Voy
hey, you take a risk with everything .. you would think that something like a BVM bandit would be perfectly engineered and tested, and look at what happened to Adil's .. the wings just ripped off because of bad spars ... others have been fluttering apart for years now as well .. and this is a plane that goes through a ton of engineering and testing. ( im just using this as an example of a highly tested quality manufactured airframe representative of the upper standard of RC jet engineering )
Some issues with kits failing out there are with the actual manufacturing .. others ( like flutter) are typically user induced ....
I'll tell you what, the thing that stands out the most about this F4 is not even the detail and outline that is actually more scale than other popular F-4s on the market, but it is how beefy and rugged the constructions is. I can see this plane being flown hard without much of a problem. Though Adil is looking to fly this plane in a "scale" fashion, he is no pansy (at least not in the way he flies .. i can't comment otherwise
) and im sure it will be put through its paces [8D] .. and if the plane is to fail, at least it will be a spectacular crash considering its size Voy
10-25-2006 | 08:58 AM
#156
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: wojtek
hey, you take a risk with everything .. you would think that something like a BVM bandit would be perfectly engineered and tested, and look at what happened to Adil's .. the wings just ripped off because of bad spars ...
hey, you take a risk with everything .. you would think that something like a BVM bandit would be perfectly engineered and tested, and look at what happened to Adil's .. the wings just ripped off because of bad spars ...
10-25-2006 | 09:02 AM
#157
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: bobber
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
I'm pretty sure. 120mph are about 200kmph, which is 55meters/second. G's are velocity (in m/s) squared divided by radius (in meters). So radius is velocity squared divided by G's.
55^2 /20 gives me 151,25 meters radius. A bit more than 3 feet per meter, so this is close to 500ft.
Regards
Hank
10-25-2006 | 09:05 AM
#158
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: bobber
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
http://www.rcpro.org/rccalc/GForce.aspx
correct, mistake was made somewhere ... i get right under 2 Gs .... at 200 mph, and 300 foot radius ( that’s some hard flying on a big phantom, and definitely beyond the "scale" flight envelope ) i get just under 10 Gs ..... I can tell you that this F4 will take significantly more based on the way its built ..
Voy
10-25-2006 | 09:10 AM
#159
Banned
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: wojtek
http://www.rcpro.org/rccalc/GForce.aspx
correct, mistake was made somewhere ... i get right under 2 Gs .... at 200 mph, and 300 foot radius ( that’s some hard flying on a big phantom, and definitely beyond the "scale" flight envelope ) i get just under 10 Gs ..... I can tell you that this F4 will take significantly more based on the way its built ..
Voy
ORIGINAL: bobber
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
http://www.rcpro.org/rccalc/GForce.aspx
correct, mistake was made somewhere ... i get right under 2 Gs .... at 200 mph, and 300 foot radius ( that’s some hard flying on a big phantom, and definitely beyond the "scale" flight envelope ) i get just under 10 Gs ..... I can tell you that this F4 will take significantly more based on the way its built ..
Voy
No real offense meant to Henk.
It's just that there is often such a big difference between theory and reality.
Ever seen that old cartoon of the pile of smoking wreckage on the runway, the pilot parachuting down, and the engineer walking away, saying "oh, well, back to the old drawing board!"
With these models, nobody is calculating the control linkages and all the rest. Spar failure is pretty rare. So the only real test that is worthwhile is to put a few models in the air and see what comes up.
By the way, great post from Wojy. Who wrote that for you?
10-25-2006 | 09:11 AM
#160
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Miniflyer
I'm pretty sure. 120mph are about 200kmph, which is 55meters/second. G's are velocity (in m/s) squared divided by radius (in meters). So radius is velocity squared divided by G's.
55^2 /20 gives me 151,25 meters radius. A bit more than 3 feet per meter, so this is close to 500ft.
Regards
Hank
ORIGINAL: bobber
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
Miniflyer - are you sure about 20 g at 120 mph and 500 foot radius? Looks like a decimal place slipped.
I'm pretty sure. 120mph are about 200kmph, which is 55meters/second. G's are velocity (in m/s) squared divided by radius (in meters). So radius is velocity squared divided by G's.
55^2 /20 gives me 151,25 meters radius. A bit more than 3 feet per meter, so this is close to 500ft.
Regards
Hank
120 mph = 176 fps (based on 1mph = 1.467 fps)
A = v*v/r
= 176 * 176 / 500
= 61.952
since 1 G = approx 32 fps, 61.952 / 32 = 1.9 G
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 09:15 AM
#161
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
I think I see what he did wrong ... forgot to divide by G in order to get the correct units - in this case, since he was using metres, need to divide his result by 9.81, then that brings us all into the same ballpark.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 09:36 AM
#162
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting? In fact and brother there are some serious facts going on here,,, How many people here are getting one? I am number 4 on the list
Dave
Are you getting? In fact and brother there are some serious facts going on here,,, How many people here are getting one? I am number 4 on the list
Dave
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
I think I see what he did wrong ... forgot to divide by G in order to get the correct units - in this case, since he was using metres, need to divide his result by 9.81, then that brings us all into the same ballpark.
Gordon
I think I see what he did wrong ... forgot to divide by G in order to get the correct units - in this case, since he was using metres, need to divide his result by 9.81, then that brings us all into the same ballpark.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 09:57 AM
#163
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Very interesting debates and extremely helpful.
I have not been building much lately (maybe due to the above) and going over the airframe with a magnifying glass. PERSONALLY, I believe the model will handle fine. I forgot to tell you guys that in addition to all the other improvements, few other things need to be mentioned and worth noting:
1) The roots of the fuselage have full 1/8 ply inside and additional 3-5" of 1/8 at the point of the spar openings. This is an update which I don't remember on any previous model - ususally its just FG.
2) on both sides of the fuse in the main hatch opening, there is a 12-14mm (can't measure as it is bonded) solid CF rod that runs from the fron to back between formers to stiffen the center section as well as the hatch.
3) the composite lay up on the entire fuse and wings is light but very strong - there is no flex at any point of the fuse etc.
i measured the fuel capacity last night by just filling the tanks and draning them out in measuring cup.
The front tank holds 94 ozs and EACH of the saddle tanks holds 64ozs. This is measured by not having the tanks full to the brim but rather close. Based on that, the fuel capacity (standard config) is 160+ ozs. I was able to easily slide a 32oz dubro tank on top of the front tank so that can be used for smoke (I will). There is still more room but as you can see, its PLENTY.
FYI the isuue with the SB spar failure was put to bed as it was not getting anywhere. The BVM speculation about the spar damage due to wheels up landing was the same as my speculation that the spar was defective (water under the bridge at this point)
If we want to talk about the SB issues, maybe we need to bring out some of the other ones that were lost recently due to rear end departures
I'm sure though that those as well are results of user mishandling or transportation techniques
Adil
I have not been building much lately (maybe due to the above) and going over the airframe with a magnifying glass. PERSONALLY, I believe the model will handle fine. I forgot to tell you guys that in addition to all the other improvements, few other things need to be mentioned and worth noting:
1) The roots of the fuselage have full 1/8 ply inside and additional 3-5" of 1/8 at the point of the spar openings. This is an update which I don't remember on any previous model - ususally its just FG.
2) on both sides of the fuse in the main hatch opening, there is a 12-14mm (can't measure as it is bonded) solid CF rod that runs from the fron to back between formers to stiffen the center section as well as the hatch.
3) the composite lay up on the entire fuse and wings is light but very strong - there is no flex at any point of the fuse etc.
i measured the fuel capacity last night by just filling the tanks and draning them out in measuring cup.
The front tank holds 94 ozs and EACH of the saddle tanks holds 64ozs. This is measured by not having the tanks full to the brim but rather close. Based on that, the fuel capacity (standard config) is 160+ ozs. I was able to easily slide a 32oz dubro tank on top of the front tank so that can be used for smoke (I will). There is still more room but as you can see, its PLENTY.
FYI the isuue with the SB spar failure was put to bed as it was not getting anywhere. The BVM speculation about the spar damage due to wheels up landing was the same as my speculation that the spar was defective (water under the bridge at this point)
If we want to talk about the SB issues, maybe we need to bring out some of the other ones that were lost recently due to rear end departures
I'm sure though that those as well are results of user mishandling or transportation techniques Adil
10-25-2006 | 10:18 AM
#164
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Very interesting debates and extremely helpful.
I have not been building much lately (maybe due to the above) and going over the airframe with a magnifying glass. PERSONALLY, I believe the model will handle fine. I forgot to tell you guys that in addition to all the other improvements, few other things need to be mentioned and worth noting:
1) The roots of the fuselage have full 1/8 ply inside and additional 3-5" of 1/8 at the point of the spar openings. This is an update which I don't remember on any previous model - ususally its just FG.
2) on both sides of the fuse in the main hatch opening, there is a 12-14mm (can't measure as it is bonded) solid CF rod that runs from the fron to back between formers to stiffen the center section as well as the hatch.
3) the composite lay up on the entire fuse and wings is light but very strong - there is no flex at any point of the fuse etc.
i measured the fuel capacity last night by just filling the tanks and draning them out in measuring cup.
The front tank holds 94 ozs and EACH of the saddle tanks holds 64ozs. This is measured by not having the tanks full to the brim but rather close. Based on that, the fuel capacity (standard config) is 160+ ozs. I was able to easily slide a 32oz dubro tank on top of the front tank so that can be used for smoke (I will). There is still more room but as you can see, its PLENTY.
FYI the isuue with the SB spar failure was put to bed as it was not getting anywhere. The BVM speculation about the spar damage due to wheels up landing was the same as my speculation that the spar was defective (water under the bridge at this point)
If we want to talk about the SB issues, maybe we need to bring out some of the other ones that were lost recently due to rear end departures I'm sure though that those as well are results of user mishandling or transportation techniques
Adil
Very interesting debates and extremely helpful.
I have not been building much lately (maybe due to the above) and going over the airframe with a magnifying glass. PERSONALLY, I believe the model will handle fine. I forgot to tell you guys that in addition to all the other improvements, few other things need to be mentioned and worth noting:
1) The roots of the fuselage have full 1/8 ply inside and additional 3-5" of 1/8 at the point of the spar openings. This is an update which I don't remember on any previous model - ususally its just FG.
2) on both sides of the fuse in the main hatch opening, there is a 12-14mm (can't measure as it is bonded) solid CF rod that runs from the fron to back between formers to stiffen the center section as well as the hatch.
3) the composite lay up on the entire fuse and wings is light but very strong - there is no flex at any point of the fuse etc.
i measured the fuel capacity last night by just filling the tanks and draning them out in measuring cup.
The front tank holds 94 ozs and EACH of the saddle tanks holds 64ozs. This is measured by not having the tanks full to the brim but rather close. Based on that, the fuel capacity (standard config) is 160+ ozs. I was able to easily slide a 32oz dubro tank on top of the front tank so that can be used for smoke (I will). There is still more room but as you can see, its PLENTY.
FYI the isuue with the SB spar failure was put to bed as it was not getting anywhere. The BVM speculation about the spar damage due to wheels up landing was the same as my speculation that the spar was defective (water under the bridge at this point)
If we want to talk about the SB issues, maybe we need to bring out some of the other ones that were lost recently due to rear end departures
I'm sure though that those as well are results of user mishandling or transportation techniques Adil
Hey, does this thing have recesses on the fuse for four sparrows? What scale is it again?
10-25-2006 | 10:21 AM
#165
Senior Member
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Adil - sorry ... thought you & BV had come to a mutual agreement on the spar thing.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 10:25 AM
#166
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
No - the only airframe I'm in the market for right now is a P70 sized one, and unfortunately this F4 needs a tad more than that. Pity - I wouldn't mind a big F4 ... since I did most of my RAF training at THE frontline F4 base in Britain, I rather got to like those big noisy suckers and I'd love to have one in 43 or 111 Sqn colors.
Adil - sorry ... thought you & BV had come to a mutual agreement on the spar thing.
Gordon
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Adil - sorry ... thought you & BV had come to a mutual agreement on the spar thing.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 10:26 AM
#167
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Well I did not know that,,,, but there's a lot I do not know. So you can do mine for me since I am back logged
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
No - the only airframe I'm in the market for right now is a P70 sized one, and unfortunately this F4 needs a tad more than that. Pity - I wouldn't mind a big F4 ... since I did most of my RAF training at THE frontline F4 base in Britain, I rather got to like those big noisy suckers and I'd love to have one in 43 or 111 Sqn colors.
Adil - sorry ... thought you & BV had come to a mutual agreement on the spar thing.
Gordon
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Hi Gordon:
Are you getting?
Adil - sorry ... thought you & BV had come to a mutual agreement on the spar thing.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 10:44 AM
#168
Senior Member
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
So you can do mine for me since I am back logged
So you can do mine for me since I am back logged
Seriously though - since you've bought a kit I think you should bring it down to the Willow for us all to oooh and aaahhhh over. Keeping it at home would be just plain selfish, and I know you're not that kind of guy !
10-25-2006 | 11:03 AM
#169
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From: glasgowScotland, UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Gordon
If anyone wishes to finish an F4 in 43 Squadron colours I can supply photographs from the F4 gate guardian at Leuchars. Unlike many it is kept in pristine condition as is the Tornado F3 alongside.
John
If anyone wishes to finish an F4 in 43 Squadron colours I can supply photographs from the F4 gate guardian at Leuchars. Unlike many it is kept in pristine condition as is the Tornado F3 alongside.
John
10-25-2006 | 11:04 AM
#170
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Ugh. Here we are, just having a nice conversation about a toy airplane on the internet, which Al Gore invented, and there you go with your muckraking about Super Bandit spars, smashed Kingcats and Bobcats, all this CARP we have to weed through! Lissen, son...if these guys had bought a proper VioTrailer and the Violett Edition Cadillac Escalade(TM) to PROPERLY transport their aircraft, as stated on pp. 308-319 of the Kingcat manual, they would not have these problems. End of story! Someone started this thread to talk about the Skymaster F-4, I think they probably don't appreciate your off-topic spit-stirring comments!
Hey, does this thing have recesses on the fuse for four sparrows? What scale is it again?
Ugh. Here we are, just having a nice conversation about a toy airplane on the internet, which Al Gore invented, and there you go with your muckraking about Super Bandit spars, smashed Kingcats and Bobcats, all this CARP we have to weed through! Lissen, son...if these guys had bought a proper VioTrailer and the Violett Edition Cadillac Escalade(TM) to PROPERLY transport their aircraft, as stated on pp. 308-319 of the Kingcat manual, they would not have these problems. End of story! Someone started this thread to talk about the Skymaster F-4, I think they probably don't appreciate your off-topic spit-stirring comments!
Hey, does this thing have recesses on the fuse for four sparrows? What scale is it again?
I have been recently subjected to a lot of "its a exact copy and a rip-off of our beloved manufacturer" yadda yadda and I "slipped".
It won't happen again. On to the topic at hand....
The fuse bottom does have the sclae recesses for the sparrows. I do hope that in near future, they will have available some external options as well as cockpit..
Adil
10-25-2006 | 11:15 AM
#171
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
I will do that for sure:
It seems this was the earlier version of the F-4 and not the same two models that SM is producing
It seems this was the earlier version of the F-4 and not the same two models that SM is producing
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
Would 2012 be an OK completion date ? In addition to my own projects, I may still need to finish Ehab's Mig 15 first, and that's just been sitting in the loft for the last 4 years or so [X(]
Seriously though - since you've bought a kit I think you should bring it down to the Willow for us all to oooh and aaahhhh over. Keeping it at home would be just plain selfish, and I know you're not that kind of guy !
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
So you can do mine for me since I am back logged
So you can do mine for me since I am back logged
Seriously though - since you've bought a kit I think you should bring it down to the Willow for us all to oooh and aaahhhh over. Keeping it at home would be just plain selfish, and I know you're not that kind of guy !
10-25-2006 | 11:26 AM
#172
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My Feedback: (119)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
As Usual ET, you are right
I have been recently subjected to a lot of "its a exact copy and a rip-off of our beloved manufacturer" yadda yadda and I "slipped".
It won't happen again. On to the topic at hand....
The fuse bottom does have the sclae recesses for the sparrows. I do hope that in near future, they will have available some external options as well as cockpit..
Adil
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Ugh. Here we are, just having a nice conversation about a toy airplane on the internet, which Al Gore invented, and there you go with your muckraking about Super Bandit spars, smashed Kingcats and Bobcats, all this CARP we have to weed through! Lissen, son...if these guys had bought a proper VioTrailer and the Violett Edition Cadillac Escalade(TM) to PROPERLY transport their aircraft, as stated on pp. 308-319 of the Kingcat manual, they would not have these problems. End of story! Someone started this thread to talk about the Skymaster F-4, I think they probably don't appreciate your off-topic spit-stirring comments!
Hey, does this thing have recesses on the fuse for four sparrows? What scale is it again?
Ugh. Here we are, just having a nice conversation about a toy airplane on the internet, which Al Gore invented, and there you go with your muckraking about Super Bandit spars, smashed Kingcats and Bobcats, all this CARP we have to weed through! Lissen, son...if these guys had bought a proper VioTrailer and the Violett Edition Cadillac Escalade(TM) to PROPERLY transport their aircraft, as stated on pp. 308-319 of the Kingcat manual, they would not have these problems. End of story! Someone started this thread to talk about the Skymaster F-4, I think they probably don't appreciate your off-topic spit-stirring comments!
Hey, does this thing have recesses on the fuse for four sparrows? What scale is it again?
I have been recently subjected to a lot of "its a exact copy and a rip-off of our beloved manufacturer" yadda yadda and I "slipped".
It won't happen again. On to the topic at hand....
The fuse bottom does have the sclae recesses for the sparrows. I do hope that in near future, they will have available some external options as well as cockpit..
Adil
As far as copying goes...I'd bet that SM would start with somebody else's mold if they could, so would anybody else with half a brain, but all the internal layout and all that, the surface detail, it's all Skymaster's own, certainly enough so for them to say it's theirs. And if there is anybody concerned about the injustice of it all, my best guess is that the original mold started by Skymaster is now going to be produced by Tamjets, so I guess it all evens out. I assume the F-4 that someone mentioned was coming from Tamjets is the mold at Feibao that recently dissapeared from their website, and that tooling was started by Skymaster. Oh, well! One thing is consistent...you will hear all these people talk loudly about right and wrong, who copied who, but when push comes to shove...if a distributor sees a good deal, or the customer sees a good deal, all those high-minded principles go right out the window, and they will go for the deal. Time and time again. They may RATIONALIZE their behavior, and say it's okay because of this small detail or that stretch of the soul, but the fact is, business is business, and they will do it every time. So, I don't get too worked up over it!
I saw this morning on another manufacturer's site(I won't name them, lest someone say I was shilling for them) a new armament set at 1/8 scale, looked to me to be both Sparrows and Sidewinders, plus tanks and pylons, for an F-16, I have not seen them up close, but they looked good, never saw anybody who had sparrows before, and to me, they are a real part of the "look" of the Phantom, and the fuselage ones, well, you can add armament without a lot of drag and storage and transport problems like the wing mounted ones.
10-25-2006 | 03:04 PM
#173
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Oh damn, you're right!!! Hope my professor's not reading along, or i'll be downgraded on my next exam ;-). Might also consider changing batteries in the sliderule....
By the way, what airfoil is used on skymaster? I spent about half a year getting the real airfoils, and i'd like to know if they match....
By the way, what airfoil is used on skymaster? I spent about half a year getting the real airfoils, and i'd like to know if they match....
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
I think I see what he did wrong ... forgot to divide by G in order to get the correct units - in this case, since he was using metres, need to divide his result by 9.81, then that brings us all into the same ballpark.
Gordon
I think I see what he did wrong ... forgot to divide by G in order to get the correct units - in this case, since he was using metres, need to divide his result by 9.81, then that brings us all into the same ballpark.
Gordon
10-25-2006 | 03:17 PM
#174
Senior Member
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Miniflyer
Oh damn, you're right!!! Hope my professor's not reading along, or i'll be downgraded on my next exam ;-). Might also consider changing batteries in the sliderule....
Oh damn, you're right!!! Hope my professor's not reading along, or i'll be downgraded on my next exam ;-). Might also consider changing batteries in the sliderule....
