Skymaster F-4E phantom
10-26-2006 | 01:36 AM
#176
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
Maybe you used a METRIC sliderule? They won't work on a plane built here in the USA.
Maybe you used a METRIC sliderule? They won't work on a plane built here in the USA.
I used a sliderule made in china....they break apart at numbers exceeding 10Gs *g*
OK, back to topic :-)
10-26-2006 | 10:53 AM
#177
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From: Oshkosh,
WI
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Good catch, Bobber! The corrected figure by Gordon Mc might give a false impression of lower G load. Trying a more realistic 200mph at 300ft turn radius which gives almost 9G[&o], which is very attainable for many jet models. Also want to clarify that I'm not advocating extensive calculations or testing of kits before going to market. For a $7000 to 10k+ kits, some delligence seem not too much to ask for, besides the usual test flights. I recall seeing a picture of Peter Michel's large airliner model having to pass a static sandbag loading test. Haven't check the AMA experimental class requirements, but I'm guessing it might be there.
BTW, my simple 10-G static test was not intended as a destructive test; but just a pre maiden flight check for the simple calcs of the extensive spar carry-through redesign in converting the JHH F-4 to EDF. I can assure all it was an inexpensive & not at all time consuming excercise; although it sure gave me the warm & fuzzies. Just my 2-cents
Phil
BTW, my simple 10-G static test was not intended as a destructive test; but just a pre maiden flight check for the simple calcs of the extensive spar carry-through redesign in converting the JHH F-4 to EDF. I can assure all it was an inexpensive & not at all time consuming excercise; although it sure gave me the warm & fuzzies. Just my 2-cents
Phil
10-26-2006 | 11:03 AM
#178
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Yo ET,
I gotta dissagree with you on one thing. I don't just buy 'cause its a good deal, usually...! Two factors come into play
1. I gotta like the plane
2. Its gotta be an arf
If those two criteria are satisfied, then I go to the "how is it built?" then "how much does it cost?" questions. Like you know, I bought a non tested airfram from St. Nguyen because I liked the plane and we agreed on a price! He couldn't get me to touch his Rafale or his hawk 'cause I simply don't like them!!
I'm waiting for the St. Nguyen blessed F-18 inspired Cadillac Escalade, "Presta" edition, with the matching trailer "Super Hornet edition" all sittin' on 22" spinners!! As soon as I get a good deal on that, I'll buy!!!
But Adil, this F-4 tickles me pink!! (or purple with a blue stripe with a woody wood pecker...can I say that on RCU???
)
I can't wait till I can buy it painted!
Raf
I gotta dissagree with you on one thing. I don't just buy 'cause its a good deal, usually...!
Two factors come into play1. I gotta like the plane
2. Its gotta be an arf
If those two criteria are satisfied, then I go to the "how is it built?" then "how much does it cost?" questions. Like you know, I bought a non tested airfram from St. Nguyen because I liked the plane and we agreed on a price! He couldn't get me to touch his Rafale or his hawk 'cause I simply don't like them!!
I'm waiting for the St. Nguyen blessed F-18 inspired Cadillac Escalade, "Presta" edition, with the matching trailer "Super Hornet edition" all sittin' on 22" spinners!! As soon as I get a good deal on that, I'll buy!!!
But Adil, this F-4 tickles me pink!!
(or purple with a blue stripe with a woody wood pecker...can I say that on RCU???)I can't wait till I can buy it painted!
Raf
10-26-2006 | 12:19 PM
#179
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: ravill
Yo ET,
I gotta dissagree with you on one thing. I don't just buy 'cause its a good deal, usually...! Two factors come into play
1. I gotta like the plane
2. Its gotta be an arf
If those two criteria are satisfied, then I go to the "how is it built?" then "how much does it cost?" questions. Like you know, I bought a non tested airfram from St. Nguyen because I liked the plane and we agreed on a price! He couldn't get me to touch his Rafale or his hawk 'cause I simply don't like them!!
I'm waiting for the St. Nguyen blessed F-18 inspired Cadillac Escalade, "Presta" edition, with the matching trailer "Super Hornet edition" all sittin' on 22" spinners!! As soon as I get a good deal on that, I'll buy!!!
But Adil, this F-4 tickles me pink!! (or purple with a blue stripe with a woody wood pecker...can I say that on RCU???)
I can't wait till I can buy it painted!
Raf
Yo ET,
I gotta dissagree with you on one thing. I don't just buy 'cause its a good deal, usually...!
Two factors come into play1. I gotta like the plane
2. Its gotta be an arf
If those two criteria are satisfied, then I go to the "how is it built?" then "how much does it cost?" questions. Like you know, I bought a non tested airfram from St. Nguyen because I liked the plane and we agreed on a price! He couldn't get me to touch his Rafale or his hawk 'cause I simply don't like them!!
I'm waiting for the St. Nguyen blessed F-18 inspired Cadillac Escalade, "Presta" edition, with the matching trailer "Super Hornet edition" all sittin' on 22" spinners!! As soon as I get a good deal on that, I'll buy!!!
But Adil, this F-4 tickles me pink!!
(or purple with a blue stripe with a woody wood pecker...can I say that on RCU???)I can't wait till I can buy it painted!
Raf
10-26-2006 | 01:08 PM
#180
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From: Canyon Lake, TX
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: PhilLin
Good catch, Bobber! The corrected figure by Gordon Mc might give a false impression of lower G load. Trying a more realistic 200mph at 300ft turn radius which gives almost 9G[&o], which is very attainable for many jet models. Also want to clarify that I'm not advocating extensive calculations or testing of kits before going to market. For a $7000 to 10k+ kits, some delligence seem not too much to ask for, besides the usual test flights. I recall seeing a picture of Peter Michel's large airliner model having to pass a static sandbag loading test. Haven't check the AMA experimental class requirements, but I'm guessing it might be there.
BTW, my simple 10-G static test was not intended as a destructive test; but just a pre maiden flight check for the simple calcs of the extensive spar carry-through redesign in converting the JHH F-4 to EDF. I can assure all it was an inexpensive & not at all time consuming excercise; although it sure gave me the warm & fuzzies. Just my 2-cents
Phil
Good catch, Bobber! The corrected figure by Gordon Mc might give a false impression of lower G load. Trying a more realistic 200mph at 300ft turn radius which gives almost 9G[&o], which is very attainable for many jet models. Also want to clarify that I'm not advocating extensive calculations or testing of kits before going to market. For a $7000 to 10k+ kits, some delligence seem not too much to ask for, besides the usual test flights. I recall seeing a picture of Peter Michel's large airliner model having to pass a static sandbag loading test. Haven't check the AMA experimental class requirements, but I'm guessing it might be there.
BTW, my simple 10-G static test was not intended as a destructive test; but just a pre maiden flight check for the simple calcs of the extensive spar carry-through redesign in converting the JHH F-4 to EDF. I can assure all it was an inexpensive & not at all time consuming excercise; although it sure gave me the warm & fuzzies. Just my 2-cents
Phil
10-26-2006 | 01:16 PM
#181
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Trying a more realistic 200mph at 300ft turn radius which gives almost 9G[&o], which is very attainable for many jet models.
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
I've personally done that and seen others do that all day long (even tighter radius) with lighter sport planes but ....
Maybe its just me but I think sometimes we get too ahead of our models
Adil
10-26-2006 | 02:20 PM
#182
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Hi Adil:
I am not sure but I would not confess anything that would cause stress failure and endanger life, especially were it can be seen by all. Just an opinion,,,, Dave
I am not sure but I would not confess anything that would cause stress failure and endanger life, especially were it can be seen by all. Just an opinion,,,, Dave
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
I've personally done that and seen others do that all day long (even tighter radius) with lighter sport planes but ....
Maybe its just me but I think sometimes we get too ahead of our models
Adil
Trying a more realistic 200mph at 300ft turn radius which gives almost 9G[&o], which is very attainable for many jet models.
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
I've personally done that and seen others do that all day long (even tighter radius) with lighter sport planes but ....
Maybe its just me but I think sometimes we get too ahead of our models
Adil
10-26-2006 | 03:02 PM
#183
Senior Member
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RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
10-26-2006 | 10:03 PM
#184
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From: Oshkosh,
WI
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Must be my estimates not in same ball park as others. In which case it may be time for some Eagle Tree on board system measurements. Should not be surprised if a few folks put their jet models over 10-G with their more energetic manuevers. A300ft radius loop with the bottom at 50ft above the deck only takes you up to 650ft. I know its not legal to break thru 400ft, so don't do it on my account
Cheers,
Phil
. Should not be surprised if a few folks put their jet models over 10-G with their more energetic manuevers. A300ft radius loop with the bottom at 50ft above the deck only takes you up to 650ft. I know its not legal to break thru 400ft, so don't do it on my accountCheers,
Phil
10-26-2006 | 10:27 PM
#185
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Hi Gordon:
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
I was thinking the same ... a 200 mph, 250 to 300 ft radius loop with a Skymaster F4 just doesn't seem like a common maneuver to me.
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
10-26-2006 | 10:52 PM
#186
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
yes there is. Eagletree has a G meter that works on 2 axis and is the size of a micro servo.
Voy
Voy
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
Hi Gordon:
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
Hi Gordon:
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
I was thinking the same ... a 200 mph, 250 to 300 ft radius loop with a Skymaster F4 just doesn't seem like a common maneuver to me.
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
10-26-2006 | 11:44 PM
#187
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From: Davis,
CA
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Voy have you tried one?
Dave
Dave
ORIGINAL: wojtek
yes there is. Eagletree has a G meter that works on 2 axis and is the size of a micro servo.
Voy
yes there is. Eagletree has a G meter that works on 2 axis and is the size of a micro servo.
Voy
ORIGINAL: WhoDaMan
Hi Gordon:
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
Hi Gordon:
I ask this because I do not know,,,, is there a G meter that can be small enough and lite enough that can be put in our planes?
Dave
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
I was thinking the same ... a 200 mph, 250 to 300 ft radius loop with a Skymaster F4 just doesn't seem like a common maneuver to me.
ORIGINAL: Adil Nasim
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
Call me crazy but I have not seen many 40+lb (wet) scale RC planes going 200 mph and turning in a 300 foot radius. How many of you guys have seen that ??
10-27-2006 | 07:02 AM
#188
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
yes i have .. Last i used it was on my KingCat. It wasinteresting to have m spotter calling out real time speed and G loading values to me while i flew. Neat gadget !
Voy
Voy
10-27-2006 | 08:33 AM
#189
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My Feedback: (119)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
I've got a great idea, Adil....
If you just limit stab travel to 1/16" up and 1/16" down, you will never overstress the airplane with excessive G's.[&:]
Woj...I know there is really know way of telling, but how accurate do you think the G-sensing thing on the Eagletree is? I know you measured 50g's or something like that in some manueuvers, do you think that's real, or maybe a figure that was beyond the accuracy and sensing ability of the unit? I have no idea, I was just wondering. What does Eagletree say are the limits?
If you just limit stab travel to 1/16" up and 1/16" down, you will never overstress the airplane with excessive G's.[&:]
Woj...I know there is really know way of telling, but how accurate do you think the G-sensing thing on the Eagletree is? I know you measured 50g's or something like that in some manueuvers, do you think that's real, or maybe a figure that was beyond the accuracy and sensing ability of the unit? I have no idea, I was just wondering. What does Eagletree say are the limits?
10-27-2006 | 08:44 AM
#190
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER
I've got a great idea, Adil....
If you just limit stab travel to 1/16" up and 1/16" down, you will never overstress the airplane with excessive G's.[&:]
Woj...I know there is really know way of telling, but how accurate do you think the G-sensing thing on the Eagletree is? I know you measured 50g's or something like that in some manueuvers, do you think that's real, or maybe a figure that was beyond the accuracy and sensing ability of the unit? I have no idea, I was just wondering. What does Eagletree say are the limits?
I've got a great idea, Adil....
If you just limit stab travel to 1/16" up and 1/16" down, you will never overstress the airplane with excessive G's.[&:]
Woj...I know there is really know way of telling, but how accurate do you think the G-sensing thing on the Eagletree is? I know you measured 50g's or something like that in some manueuvers, do you think that's real, or maybe a figure that was beyond the accuracy and sensing ability of the unit? I have no idea, I was just wondering. What does Eagletree say are the limits?
my 50 G estimate on a BobCat wing failure was not derived from the eaglet tree unit. For that one i took a VERY conservative estimate of the speed the plane was traveling at, and also a very conservative estimate of the turn radius based on a common consensus of those who saw this ... we ran the math from there ...
as for the eagletree unit, i have no reason to think it is not accurate .. on the king cat i had it up to i believe like 16 or 17 Gs in a tight turn. I think a good way to see how accurate it is ( or if its even close) would be to take video of a plane doing a nice symmetrical loop at a set speed (can be done with a speed limiter on the ECU) .. do the math on the speed / vs loop diameter and see if the reading off of the eagletree is in the ballpark ....
I would not worry about the whole G thing on the planes you fly however …. Foam makes for very light wing loadings
Voy
10-30-2006 | 10:17 AM
#195
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
Still waiting on the reversed one [
][] Horizon is a little late.
Could not wait any longer so i decided to use the matchbox. I'm actually glad as after going through 8 new 8611a I just got, i could not match two with the same throw and spline neutral point.
Matchbox saved the day.
Adil
][] Horizon is a little late.Could not wait any longer so i decided to use the matchbox. I'm actually glad as after going through 8 new 8611a I just got, i could not match two with the same throw and spline neutral point.
Matchbox saved the day.
Adil
10-30-2006 | 10:18 AM
#196
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
nice install, but i would not personally feel safe with the match box on the 2 servos for the elevator .. If i was to use a matchbox, i would put it behind a power box or some sort of power bus .. im asuming those are 8611 servos , and I know they are impossible to get matched up, so you do need a match box ... or how about a pair of Hitec 5955 servos ? didn't you hve a bunch of those ? anyway, thats just me and my paranoia ..
looking good man ..
Voy
looking good man ..
Voy
10-30-2006 | 10:30 AM
#198
Senior Member
My Feedback: (61)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
ORIGINAL: wojtek
nice install, but i would not personally feel safe with the match box on the 2 servos for the elevator .. If i was to use a matchbox, i would put it behind a power box or some sort of power bus .. im asuming those are 8611 servos , and I know they are impossible to get matched up, so you do need a match box ... or how about a pair of Hitec 5955 servos ? didn't you hve a bunch of those ? anyway, thats just me and my paranoia ..
looking good man ..
Voy
nice install, but i would not personally feel safe with the match box on the 2 servos for the elevator .. If i was to use a matchbox, i would put it behind a power box or some sort of power bus .. im asuming those are 8611 servos , and I know they are impossible to get matched up, so you do need a match box ... or how about a pair of Hitec 5955 servos ? didn't you hve a bunch of those ? anyway, thats just me and my paranoia ..
looking good man ..
Voy
Dude, You read my mind..
I used the Hitecs on my flaps and all it took was 2 seconds on the programmer to reverse one. They perfectly matched and work flawlessly.
I continuously ran the servos (8611A's) for 10 minutes with a load on the elevator and they did not heat up or anything.
I tried different servo locations with one longer rod but just was not getting the loads right.
I did not close out the back for this reason. I don't feel comfortable with the match box on elevators. I'll try out the reversed servo when it arrives or it is time for the Hitecs.
Adil
10-30-2006 | 10:30 AM
#199
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
heres the problem i have found with matching 8611 servos ... if you get them centered to eachother, the end points will slightly be off .. if you adjust this with a match box, and now you have the center and enpoints to match, i have found that the travel "curves" might still varry through the transitions between center and the end poinits ... and on top of that i have also found that speeds might slightly vary also between the 2 servos ... great servo for a single surface, but not for ganging up ..
Voy
Voy
10-30-2006 | 10:37 AM
#200
Banned
My Feedback: (119)
RE: Skymaster F-4E phantom
You could also mechanically gang the two stab linkages together(they aren't tailerons) and use one monster servo, or the two you have. They won't be fighting each other...much, would they? But the two surfaces will travel identically, and that's what matters.
