Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
12-02-2009, 06:12 AM
#3001
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: ticketec
Hey mate! these little beasties seem popular with the aussie pilots!!!
Yeah i read the whole thread!! almost twice through all the post becuase there are so many good ideas/experience here. it does take a few days and some tired eyes to get there!
Still tossing up what to get in terms of L/G, and i have even emailed airpower directly to see if they could match/beat the dreamworks price, but no response after the initial enquires.... I just am sturggling to pay top dollar for retracts when this is effectivily a cheap option to get into jet flying, ultimately i would love to get my hands on a second hand set, but i would have to get pretty lucky for that to happen. either way, it will probably not happen before christmas at this stage.
Still waiting on TBM to come back with the shipping price for my servos which are also holding me up.
Thanks
dave
ORIGINAL: Aussie1
Dave, it seems that you have read this thread right through, which is no small task! Yours will be very similar to mine which weights 13lbs dry and has great vertical performance with my PST600. My fuel tank is even the same, useing the Berri juice bottle. What retracts and legs/brakes did you decide on? It would seem that you can either go for the complete rebuild with extra weight or keep it light with only the required strengthening required. Either way results in a great economical sport jet.
Dave, it seems that you have read this thread right through, which is no small task! Yours will be very similar to mine which weights 13lbs dry and has great vertical performance with my PST600. My fuel tank is even the same, useing the Berri juice bottle. What retracts and legs/brakes did you decide on? It would seem that you can either go for the complete rebuild with extra weight or keep it light with only the required strengthening required. Either way results in a great economical sport jet.
Yeah i read the whole thread!! almost twice through all the post becuase there are so many good ideas/experience here. it does take a few days and some tired eyes to get there!
Still tossing up what to get in terms of L/G, and i have even emailed airpower directly to see if they could match/beat the dreamworks price, but no response after the initial enquires.... I just am sturggling to pay top dollar for retracts when this is effectivily a cheap option to get into jet flying, ultimately i would love to get my hands on a second hand set, but i would have to get pretty lucky for that to happen. either way, it will probably not happen before christmas at this stage.
Still waiting on TBM to come back with the shipping price for my servos which are also holding me up.
Thanks
dave
belive me there is nothing more frustrating if you lose your complete landing gear on landing or take off.
i was a customer once , and i clearly remember a nice sunday with perfect weather got spoiled because of some cheap landing gear.
that bended everytime on landing , i spend each week hours of work and spend lots of money on parts to get flying again.
the Falcon is cheap yes i agree , i have customers who have gotten their third falcon and still use the first gear..
secondly Airpower does not sell the Trailing option ,these are custom made by us.
and there are no second hand sets out there , they last to long...
ps : intairco sells also airpower , maybe ask him?
12-02-2009, 06:17 AM
#3002
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Dave
Have you tried the Digitech site for retracts?
Also you don't have to use fancy hinges to get full travel on the flaps, put the left flap on the right wing upside down and visa versa, this will give you the correct profile for CA hinging and 90 deg travel.
Mike
Dave
Have you tried the Digitech site for retracts?
Also you don't have to use fancy hinges to get full travel on the flaps, put the left flap on the right wing upside down and visa versa, this will give you the correct profile for CA hinging and 90 deg travel.
Mike
Yeah, read previous posts and you'll see that i have checked out his site...
RE: flap hinges, my master plan to use the funky hinges all turned to custard, cos i'm a donkey and made a beginners mistake. I now have some lovely slots in my wings and flaps i have to fix[:@][:@] back to RC modelling 101 for me[&:] just shows that nearly 20 experiance can count for nothing if you don't stop and think!
I have gone with pin hinges and can still get full deflection with those. I will post some pic's soon to show what i have done.
Thanks
dave
12-02-2009, 06:18 AM
#3003
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: ticketec
Yeah, read previous posts and you'll see that i have checked out his site...
RE: flap hinges, my master plan to use the funky hinges all turned to custard, cos i'm a donkey and made a beginners mistake. I now have some lovely slots in my wings and flaps i have to fix[:@][:@] back to RC modelling 101 for me[&:] just shows that nearly 20 experiance can count for nothing if you don't stop and think!
I have gone with pin hinges and can still get full deflection with those. I will post some pic's soon to show what i have done.
Thanks
dave
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Dave
Have you tried the Digitech site for retracts?
Also you don't have to use fancy hinges to get full travel on the flaps, put the left flap on the right wing upside down and visa versa, this will give you the correct profile for CA hinging and 90 deg travel.
Mike
Dave
Have you tried the Digitech site for retracts?
Also you don't have to use fancy hinges to get full travel on the flaps, put the left flap on the right wing upside down and visa versa, this will give you the correct profile for CA hinging and 90 deg travel.
Mike
Yeah, read previous posts and you'll see that i have checked out his site...
RE: flap hinges, my master plan to use the funky hinges all turned to custard, cos i'm a donkey and made a beginners mistake. I now have some lovely slots in my wings and flaps i have to fix[:@][:@] back to RC modelling 101 for me[&:] just shows that nearly 20 experiance can count for nothing if you don't stop and think!
I have gone with pin hinges and can still get full deflection with those. I will post some pic's soon to show what i have done.
Thanks
dave
intairco sells also Airpower
maybe he has a used set?
12-02-2009, 07:24 AM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: digitech
belive me there is nothing more frustrating if you lose your complete landing gear on landing or take off.
i was a customer once , and i clearly remember a nice sunday with perfect weather got spoiled because of some cheap landing gear.
that bended everytime on landing , i spend each week hours of work and spend lots of money on parts to get flying again.
the Falcon is cheap yes i agree , i have customers who have gotten their third falcon and still use the first gear..
secondly Airpower does not sell the Trailing option ,these are custom made by us.
and there are no second hand sets out there , they last to long...
ps : intairco sells also airpower , maybe ask him?
belive me there is nothing more frustrating if you lose your complete landing gear on landing or take off.
i was a customer once , and i clearly remember a nice sunday with perfect weather got spoiled because of some cheap landing gear.
that bended everytime on landing , i spend each week hours of work and spend lots of money on parts to get flying again.
the Falcon is cheap yes i agree , i have customers who have gotten their third falcon and still use the first gear..
secondly Airpower does not sell the Trailing option ,these are custom made by us.
and there are no second hand sets out there , they last to long...
ps : intairco sells also airpower , maybe ask him?
I do know what you mean. I own most of the major brands of retracts for my warbirds and i know of the fustrations of doggy landing gear.. But have also learnt that it's not always nessesary to have top of the range to get reliable service from your retracts, but rather to buy wisely. But don't get me wrong, i do listen to what you post and it does make me think about what i am looking to buy.
I guess my biggest beef is that i don't plan to keep the Falcon forever. I'm a scale boy at heart, so my master plan is to use the falcon as it was intended for. as a trainer, once i have some experience up, i hope to sell it,and my EDF byron F-16 to finance something like a skymaster 1:8 F-16, so to burn up money on retracts that i don't intend on seeing a lifetime of service out of is the real driver for me.
I can understand that jet retracts need to be strong, because i have seen heaps of videos where the model get "pounded" into the runway, but if this model slows up as much as is described here, why to the retracts have to be built so tough? maybe, no, i DO have a lot to learn about turbine models, but in the warbird scene, where there are also some high wing loading models flying around, never seem to get pounded into the runway as jet models do. I understand turbine lag etc, but most warbirds guys work hard at ensuring they land nicely. Maybe it's just my "youtube" version of turbine flying. at the jet meet i went to recently most of the guys landed fairly nicely, but there were a few "pounders" too!
Intairco does sell airpower, but he also throws on a massive margin too!!!! now i quite like to support local businesses but not to the tune that he marks up his prices at.. and having bought directly from Airpower, i don't think that Intairco could get the items to me any quicker. I have been keeping an eye on the classifieds he has on his site but nothing so far. I fully suspect that i will end up buying new.
Thanks
dave
12-02-2009, 08:19 AM
#3006
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: ticketec
Hey Sandor,
I do know what you mean. I own most of the major brands of retracts for my warbirds and i know of the fustrations of doggy landing gear.. But have also learnt that it's not always nessesary to have top of the range to get reliable service from your retracts, but rather to buy wisely. But don't get me wrong, i do listen to what you post and it does make me think about what i am looking to buy.
I guess my biggest beef is that i don't plan to keep the Falcon forever. I'm a scale boy at heart, so my master plan is to use the falcon as it was intended for. as a trainer, once i have some experience up, i hope to sell it,and my EDF byron F-16 to finance something like a skymaster 1:8 F-16, so to burn up money on retracts that i don't intend on seeing a lifetime of service out of is the real driver for me.
I can understand that jet retracts need to be strong, because i have seen heaps of videos where the model get ''pounded'' into the runway, but if this model slows up as much as is described here, why to the retracts have to be built so tough? maybe, no, i DO have a lot to learn about turbine models, but in the warbird scene, where there are also some high wing loading models flying around, never seem to get pounded into the runway as jet models do. I understand turbine lag etc, but most warbirds guys work hard at ensuring they land nicely. Maybe it's just my ''youtube'' version of turbine flying. at the jet meet i went to recently most of the guys landed fairly nicely, but there were a few ''pounders'' too!
Intairco does sell airpower, but he also throws on a massive margin too!!!! now i quite like to support local businesses but not to the tune that he marks up his prices at.. and having bought directly from Airpower, i don't think that Intairco could get the items to me any quicker. I have been keeping an eye on the classifieds he has on his site but nothing so far. I fully suspect that i will end up buying new.
Thanks
dave
ORIGINAL: digitech
belive me there is nothing more frustrating if you lose your complete landing gear on landing or take off.
i was a customer once , and i clearly remember a nice sunday with perfect weather got spoiled because of some cheap landing gear.
that bended everytime on landing , i spend each week hours of work and spend lots of money on parts to get flying again.
the Falcon is cheap yes i agree , i have customers who have gotten their third falcon and still use the first gear..
secondly Airpower does not sell the Trailing option ,these are custom made by us.
and there are no second hand sets out there , they last to long...
ps : intairco sells also airpower , maybe ask him?
belive me there is nothing more frustrating if you lose your complete landing gear on landing or take off.
i was a customer once , and i clearly remember a nice sunday with perfect weather got spoiled because of some cheap landing gear.
that bended everytime on landing , i spend each week hours of work and spend lots of money on parts to get flying again.
the Falcon is cheap yes i agree , i have customers who have gotten their third falcon and still use the first gear..
secondly Airpower does not sell the Trailing option ,these are custom made by us.
and there are no second hand sets out there , they last to long...
ps : intairco sells also airpower , maybe ask him?
I do know what you mean. I own most of the major brands of retracts for my warbirds and i know of the fustrations of doggy landing gear.. But have also learnt that it's not always nessesary to have top of the range to get reliable service from your retracts, but rather to buy wisely. But don't get me wrong, i do listen to what you post and it does make me think about what i am looking to buy.
I guess my biggest beef is that i don't plan to keep the Falcon forever. I'm a scale boy at heart, so my master plan is to use the falcon as it was intended for. as a trainer, once i have some experience up, i hope to sell it,and my EDF byron F-16 to finance something like a skymaster 1:8 F-16, so to burn up money on retracts that i don't intend on seeing a lifetime of service out of is the real driver for me.
I can understand that jet retracts need to be strong, because i have seen heaps of videos where the model get ''pounded'' into the runway, but if this model slows up as much as is described here, why to the retracts have to be built so tough? maybe, no, i DO have a lot to learn about turbine models, but in the warbird scene, where there are also some high wing loading models flying around, never seem to get pounded into the runway as jet models do. I understand turbine lag etc, but most warbirds guys work hard at ensuring they land nicely. Maybe it's just my ''youtube'' version of turbine flying. at the jet meet i went to recently most of the guys landed fairly nicely, but there were a few ''pounders'' too!
Intairco does sell airpower, but he also throws on a massive margin too!!!! now i quite like to support local businesses but not to the tune that he marks up his prices at.. and having bought directly from Airpower, i don't think that Intairco could get the items to me any quicker. I have been keeping an eye on the classifieds he has on his site but nothing so far. I fully suspect that i will end up buying new.
Thanks
dave
Then i would stay with the wire for now , and use it as a trainer.
i think for now that is the best choice
12-02-2009, 12:34 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
aquaskiman,
Here's a picture of the Trex 600 Boom next to the provided aluminum wing tube. You can see that it's slightly larger diameter and a bit longer so it definately takes some mods to get it in. You can find these at just about every RCshop.
Here's a picture of the Trex 600 Boom next to the provided aluminum wing tube. You can see that it's slightly larger diameter and a bit longer so it definately takes some mods to get it in. You can find these at just about every RCshop.
12-02-2009, 12:39 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I got my struts from www.altecare.com and Ihave been very pleased with them. Really solid and forgiving of rough landings. I haven't seen anything better.
http://www.altecare.com/nlvlstrut.jpg
http://www.altecare.com/struts.htm
I have the NL140-VL 140mm strut on the mains and the NL145L trailing strut on the nose.
http://www.altecare.com/nlvlstrut.jpg
http://www.altecare.com/struts.htm
I have the NL140-VL 140mm strut on the mains and the NL145L trailing strut on the nose.
12-02-2009, 01:17 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I have struts from altecare, but the only problem with them is that they are too long for this airplane and becasuse of that, they put to much pressure on the wooden base of the retracts and if is not glue well and reinforced they will break taken the the ribs with them.
If you are going to use behotec retracts and struts I suggest to reinforce the wooden base of the retracts.
The behotec retracts and struts are one of the best in the market you can buy, expensive thouhg
If you are going to use behotec retracts and struts I suggest to reinforce the wooden base of the retracts.
The behotec retracts and struts are one of the best in the market you can buy, expensive thouhg
12-02-2009, 03:41 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
The behotec struts from altecare are roughly the same size as the plane was designed for making them a drop in replacement. But keep in mind, this plane was designed as a pusher prop and is way to high to start with allowing prop clearance. I learned the hard way with my first build that the stock wood base andribs are woefully insufficient with a jet and that long of a strut, whatever the manufacturer.
12-02-2009, 06:15 PM
#3012
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
Where did you get the control arms (CF)? And what size?
ORIGINAL: BaldEagel
Here's a pic of the flaps turned around and pin hinged.
Mike
Here's a pic of the flaps turned around and pin hinged.
Mike
I made them myself, I did a thread on this a few months back.
Link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7203928/tm.htm
Mike
EDIT: found some commercial made ones as well: http://www.engelmt.de/en/cataloque/a...70039afbbed86b
12-02-2009, 07:18 PM
#3013
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Thanks they look very nice! I probably forgot that page.
On a different note......my Dreamworks gear showed up today. They are almost a perfect fit! I say almost because I'm using the airpower retracts and brakes/wheels. I noticed when I had attempted to put the robart gear in that the axle was not the right size. I had a buddy make some alum inserts for that gear and they work perfect on this set as well. I will have to cut the axle about 3mm shorter though as it hits the inside of the wing but overall I got exactly what I wanted and expected thanks to lots of research on Dreamworks site and this thread.
On a different note......my Dreamworks gear showed up today. They are almost a perfect fit! I say almost because I'm using the airpower retracts and brakes/wheels. I noticed when I had attempted to put the robart gear in that the axle was not the right size. I had a buddy make some alum inserts for that gear and they work perfect on this set as well. I will have to cut the axle about 3mm shorter though as it hits the inside of the wing but overall I got exactly what I wanted and expected thanks to lots of research on Dreamworks site and this thread.
12-02-2009, 09:40 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I found a Carbon spar!!!!!
Turns out the Mikado Logo (logo 10, 14, 400, 500, 500se)choppers use a 20mm tail boom. they themselves don't sell a carbon upgrade, but MS composite do make one for the Logo 10 and 14. It's 560mm long and i have just measured up the stock aluminium spar that comes with the kit and it's 510mm. the wings will lonely accept another 5mm in length so it's perfect!
http://www.mscomposit.com/rc-helicop...s.htm&crcy=USD
I've ordered mine from this mob because they were quite a bit cheaper.
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/index.php
it was $27 USD + $18 shipping to Oz[X(] (that's why it chaffes so much when americans complain about shipping costs!!)
Thanks
dave
Turns out the Mikado Logo (logo 10, 14, 400, 500, 500se)choppers use a 20mm tail boom. they themselves don't sell a carbon upgrade, but MS composite do make one for the Logo 10 and 14. It's 560mm long and i have just measured up the stock aluminium spar that comes with the kit and it's 510mm. the wings will lonely accept another 5mm in length so it's perfect!
http://www.mscomposit.com/rc-helicop...s.htm&crcy=USD
I've ordered mine from this mob because they were quite a bit cheaper.
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/index.php
it was $27 USD + $18 shipping to Oz[X(] (that's why it chaffes so much when americans complain about shipping costs!!)
Thanks
dave
12-02-2009, 10:42 PM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
I didn't see a tail boom for that price on the fx site. I only saw the $42 one. You have an exact link?
I didn't see a tail boom for that price on the fx site. I only saw the $42 one. You have an exact link?
umm, it was here:
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/index.ph...h=49_45_453_48
but it as also dissappered from my veiw as well... maybe a call or email to them?
Thanks
dave
12-02-2009, 10:51 PM
#3017
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
I'll have to do that......here's the only link I found
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
12-03-2009, 12:20 AM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
I'll have to do that......here's the only link I found
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
I'll have to do that......here's the only link I found
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
Yeah!
] THe part number i ordered was MS20019 and it had a picture of a carbon tube.... maybe they hadn't updated their website and me placing an order caused them to fix it? Maybe email them and ask them for the part number i ordered?
thanks
dave
12-03-2009, 09:55 AM
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: atomicx
I got my struts from www.altecare.com and I have been very pleased with them. Really solid and forgiving of rough landings. I haven't seen anything better.
http://www.altecare.com/nlvlstrut.jpg
http://www.altecare.com/struts.htm
I have the NL140-VL 140mm strut on the mains and the NL145L trailing strut on the nose.
I got my struts from www.altecare.com and I have been very pleased with them. Really solid and forgiving of rough landings. I haven't seen anything better.
http://www.altecare.com/nlvlstrut.jpg
http://www.altecare.com/struts.htm
I have the NL140-VL 140mm strut on the mains and the NL145L trailing strut on the nose.
Remy
12-03-2009, 10:57 AM
#3021
RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
Dave your cheapest gear is Spring Air with robo struts. They work well as long as you do not slam the plane on the runway or run off the end of the runway.
No one always lands perfect, so if you want trouble free gear, get a good set now and save yourself a lot of trouble George
No one always lands perfect, so if you want trouble free gear, get a good set now and save yourself a lot of trouble George
12-03-2009, 03:27 PM
#3022
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: ticketec
Yeah!![] THe part number i ordered was MS20019 and it had a picture of a carbon tube....
maybe they hadn't updated their website and me placing an order caused them to fix it? Maybe email them and ask them for the part number i ordered?
thanks
dave
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
I'll have to do that......here's the only link I found
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
I'll have to do that......here's the only link I found
http://www.fxaeromodels.com/product_...oducts_id=2199
That one is exactly as you described but twice as much.
Yeah!![
] THe part number i ordered was MS20019 and it had a picture of a carbon tube.... maybe they hadn't updated their website and me placing an order caused them to fix it? Maybe email them and ask them for the part number i ordered?
thanks
dave
Here's the response.....
Someone ordered it yesterday, it is the last one and we may not be able to get it anymore.
Best regards,
FXA
Best regards,
FXA
12-04-2009, 05:08 AM
#3024
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RE: Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
Here's the response.....
So I can now be mad at you[>:]
Here's the response.....
Someone ordered it yesterday, it is the last one and we may not be able to get it anymore.
Best regards,
FXA
Best regards,
FXA
Sorry mate!
I am still pissing myself laughing over your response!!!
Don't worry, it will be bitter sweet justice for you if it doesn't fit
Thanks
dave