Anyone know what the weight of the empty Rafale is? Just wondering if it would make a good EDF at its size

Fly weight 15 to 17lbs

Done!

Well just about. The only ting left to do is install the missle rails and balance it. I'm holding off a bit to see if I can figure out a way that will keep the missle rails on in flight but come off without breaking if I scrape a wing tip. After fixing the ones on my Yellow F-16 a number of times I finally removed them. I might make some aluminum skids that will keep the tips from hitting the ground. That worked rerasonably well on my Gripen.

I took the F-16 out in the driveway and fired up the Wren SS a couple of times. Everything worked like a charm. There was too much snow and ice to taxi it around much, but it tracked nice and straight for about 10 feet and the brakes seem to work fine.

Now the worst part is waiting for spring so I can fly it. Here's a couple of pictures.

Joe

Looks great Joe. I wish you an early Spring, can hardly wait for a flight report.
What does she weigh with the SS? If i remember correctly, you used the wren pipe? Did you have to add any weight?

Cody

Thanks, Cody.

I used the FEJ pipe, you're thinking of Keith (jetmodeller). I haven't done the final balance yet. I don't expect to have to add any weight. I'll put the appropriate sized batteries in to acheive balance. Final weight should come out 19.5 - 20 lbs.

Joe

I have the tiger meet F-16 coming. What do you all think of the Artes/Jet Central Falcon for power? Too much?

Just right--that's the same combination I got going on...

I think it would be a bit much. First off the F-16 is quite aerodynamic and doesn't require a lot of power to go fast. There are several videos in the RCU video section and on YouTube of Skymaster 1/8th F-16's flying with 14 lbs. turbines and they seem to do quite well.

I have a Falcon in my Skymaster Gripen and it's a great engine. It's conservatively rated at 23 lbs. It has lots of power and great throttle response. The only bad thing I can say about it is that it has poor fuel consumption. I carry 87 oz. in my Gripen and that's good for a 6 minute flight.

If you read my postings you will see that I put a Wren SS in my F-16. Although I haven't flown it yet I have run it up in my driveway and it has plenty of thrust for this airframe. Compared to my Wren SS the Falcon engine is over a pound heavier. You will need extra nose weight to balance it. The F-16 fuel tanks hold 2 liters (67 oz.) so unless you want to do 4.5 minute flights you'll need to add an extra fuel tank.

The supplied pipe is 3 1/8" diameter, which seems a bit small for the Falcon. You could live with the several pounds thrust loss or get a custom pipe made up for it.

The end result will be a 2-3 pound heavier plane with a choked exhaust. Which would fly better, a 19 lbs. plane with 18 lbs. thrust or a 22 lbs. plane with 20 lbs. of thrust? Bigger isn't always better.

Joe

These are the opinions I need. Keep 'em coming. This is my first turbine, so I need as much info as I can get.

Anybody flown with a 14lb'er in the tail yet?

Hello

Have had a good read of this whole forum and it is a great read and by the looks of things a great well made kit for the F16. So i have ordered one from the uk rep today in the tiger meet colours. I have taken the option of having the build done by the company also to save time. Was wondering how much of the build they do. I have read that they do all the under carriage and gear doors but do they also fit the servo mounts and also all the control surfaces, Do they install horns on the control surfaces also? Got to wait until some time in march before the container the uk rep has ordered will get here but hey ho thats just the way it goes.

Am going to stick my wren54mk3 in the tail i think or does anyone think it will be ok in the middle with maybe the wren thrust tube to save the weight or will there not be enough power i am not one that wants permanent vertical flight just want it to fly round nicely as am fairly new to turbines. Currently have the boomerang intro

Thanks in advance for you help.

Rob.

I agree with Joe's philosophy about the lighter weight and less fuel consumption of the SS for this plane. I ordered the aiplane last year with the intention of installing a Super Bee in the tail not realizing that a lot of weight would have to be added for balance. Even though the SM version seems to do very well with this engine, from what i have read, the SM is lighter than the FEJ. So by the time you get a full load of fuel, I would have a 22-23lb aiplane with 14lbs of thrust. That would be fine for me on on an F-86, T-33, T-45 ect, but thats not what I want in a F-16.
My kit will not arrive until next month so in the meantime, I will go with a Wren SS or continue to await the availablity of the Merlin 90. If the Merlin meets the manfactures numbers, I will have to consider it. The manufacture claims an install weight that is lighter than the SS, 1/2lb lighter than the Super Bee, and .8lb lighter than a P-60, while spooling up from 1lb-20lbs of thrust in 1 second, and a fuel comsumption comparable to the SS. That would be the perfect engine IMO.
So is the +2lb performance advantage over the Wren worth the established service and reliablity of the Wren verses a "new" engine from a manufacture also with a good reputation? That will be the biggest question for me. However, this is not a factor currently as the Merlin is not available but the Wren is. But I dont have my airplane yet either.

Cody

Hi Rob,
Thankyou for ordering your f16 from us today i would just like to inform the uk. jet pilots that we have been appointed sole u.k. distributors for this fabulous range of kits.If you pre -order now you can save on the special intoductory prices we have going at present. There wiil be a review by Kieth Whiddet on the F16 in the next issue of RCJI and shortly after that the Rafale will be reviewd

COLCHESTER A1 MODELS 0044(0)1206 572094
phone shop first for special details they wiil appear on our website soon.

www.colchestera1models.co.uk check out the jet section.

Hi All,i have now had 10 flights on my F16 and the F16/supersport combination is just right, speed is good with verticals as high as you want,a Falcon is way over the top and would be much to heavy and short flights,i can get a good 7 min,s with Mike,s third tank with some left for a go round.A Wren 54/super bee in the tail sounds good as well as some weight can be saved as there is no exhaust duct,i tried knife edge at the week end and was surprised at how well the nose holds up with no tendancy to drop just go,es on for ever regards Keith

Would a p70 mounted in the conventional loction be a good match for the f-16. Seems similar in specs to the SS. A P80 just sounds a little to much for this bird. Could be wrong though.

Keith, glad everything has gone well for 10 flights. How is the f16 on landings?

Rich

Rich,

A P-70 would probably be OK. However, compared to a Wren SS it's a half pound heavier, has about a pound less thrust, and throttle response is slow.

Joe

Hi I have a friend who is about to put together a F16 with a P70 mounted in conventional location, with a single wall duct and light batterys, i think it will be fine,the s/sport has more than enough power so i know it will fly with less power,the thing is KEEP IT LIGHT and you will have no problems, Landing is a piece of cake with no problems,just bring her in on idle,flare, keep the nose high,wait for speed to bleed off and touch down!! i have had two dead sticks and managed both times to get it back on runway with no damage,hope this helps regards Keith

Sign Guy

Everyone has their preferences and their reasons for having them—no problems there. Everyone may say what they think is all that one needs—power wise—not so much of a problem there. But one may like apples while the other likes grapefruit—you see what I’m saying. The bottom line in all that we do is what pleases us (you)—what it is that we (I) want or like. So if one likes the P60 over the Wren over the SimJet over the Merlin over—over—over—it’s all good. No one here is wrong—that’s what I’m saying. Why drive a 740i Bmer when a Hyundai will take you to the same stop sign—because it is simply what “we� choose to do—again, it’s all good. So with all that said—it’s still the Falcon for me. And everyone is happy…

And just so you know—I have not flown a turbine yet (fly the hell out of props and ducted fans), but I still know what I want. Even though I’ve been around turbines a couple of years I still asked the question in this very thread about the SimJet verses the rest. I already owned the SimJet, but I still wanted opinions—that’s kool for anyone to do. Many of the good folks in this thread gave their opinions and/or experiences—all good—I still have my SimJet which is way top of the turbine list according to actual studies—again, BMW to Hyundai.

This is a good thread—lots of turbine knowhow running around—hang around—you’ll be glad you did…

Mr DJ

Just got an email from FEJ, my Rafale will be shipping Feb 22. That's 21 days earlier than expected! So far I'm impressed with the company, their email correspondence has been fantastic, from the pictures I've seen it looks like the Rafale will be an awesome little jet!

Are you guys ordering off the China website or from the guy here in the US...I'm wanting to get the F-15 in the tiger paint scheme.....Any help appreciated on how and where to order would be helpful.....Just spoke to the US rep.....Doesn't speak very good English so I e-mailed him.........Let me know how to order please.. Rick

Mr DJ,
Thanks for the input. You are right in what you say. There is more than one way to skin a cat I am just trying to feel everyone out on whats what in the turbine world, much the same as choosing an auto as you mentioned. In the past, I have tended to lean towards what the "majority" is flying for just the plain simple fact of support at the field. There a a few guys that come out with odd radios or equipment, have issues, and no one can help them. I don't want to be one of those guys. After reading here, and talking to a few local guys, and reps from several manufacturers, I have limited my choice to either the Wren SS or the Falcon. Both have awesome customer support and several guys local to me are familiar with both, so if I have issues, help will be close. Are you having another tailpipe made for your Falcon, or are you going to use the stock one. I'm liking the thrust to weight ratio of the Wren, and it would be @ 4 lbs lighter. I like insane verticals, so I don't know. I'm guessing the lighter plane will handle better at landing, but until I talk to some more guys that have flown this plane, I can't be for sure. I'm sure a modern design such as this will fly just fine with either engine choice, I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and go for it!! I just can't wait to "git-r-done" and go fly

I ordered mine from TBM. Says should be in early March

Hi all
Spoke to wren turbines the other day about their thrust tube. They told me that with their tube you would in fact be adding between .5 to 1lb of thrust more to the normal turbine. What i wanted to know was how much thrust in theory do you loose by putting the turbine in the normal place with the ducting i have heard that power is lost but is it .5 or 1lb or more. this will make me decide either to put the turbine in the conventional manner of in the tail.

In theory, an augmented pipe draws more bypass air flow into the pipe, thus, creating more static thrust. To lose or to gain the thrust, it mainly depends on adjusting the diameter of the pipe at different section of the pipe and exhaust velocity. If you can, try to get a larger diameter pipe so you won't have the pressure built up and choking coming from the acoustic effect of cooling and compressed air leaving the exhaust. Adjust the distance between the mouth and turbine exhaust will also increase or decrease the thrust. As a matter of fact, if you do it right, you will have faster exhaust speed and static thrust. The idea is just like the tuned pipe, although the theory is a bit different. The down side is the weight penalty, but then you don't need to add to much weight in the nose to balance out the weight at the tail cone. Personally I prefer having the turbine in the bay area.

Mike

Thanks Mike
I will try putting it in the bay and do some static thrust tests with different gaps between the engine and thrust tube when it arrives which will be a month yet but thanks for the help.