Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Pattern Universe - RC Pattern Flying > RC Pattern Flying
Reload this Page >

My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Notices
RC Pattern Flying Discuss all topics pertaining to RC Pattern Flying in this forum.

My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Old 04-20-2012, 06:26 PM
  #1  
rcflyer4fun
Thread Starter
 
rcflyer4fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default My suggestion to increase pattern participation

This is just my 2 cents worth of suggestion that I think would increase pattern participation. Take it for what you think it is worth but last week at my club there were a few newby wannabies to pattern that were introduced to me. I printed out some sportsman call sheets and manuever descriptions and handed them out to the guys. I figured Id help them with flying the pattern and whatnot and get them to attend the St. Charles IL contest. I know once they attend a contest a certain percentage will be hooked but the problem I ran into is that the guys found the call sheets and manuever descriptions by themselves intimidating and they told me that they didn't think they were ready to try it. I understand there stance about being intimidated but the not wanting to try part I don't. When I decided back in the early 90's to try pattern I grabbed a call sheet and had my friend Andy call the manuevers for me. As basic as the manuevers were I could not make it thru 3 or 4 manuevers before I broke the pattern and I was discouraged somewhat by this. It didnt stop me from trying though. I went to a local contest to see what It was about. I went without an airplane because I was just going to watch. I got there early and got to talking with the contest director and he talked me into driving home to get a plane and try it out. I was reluctant because I could not complete the pattern but I decided to do it anyway. After returning with my plane I was finally able to watch someone fly thru the pattern to completion. Where I am from there was no one doing pattern so I had no mentor to help me out. To my surprise my first round I was able to complete the pattern successfully! I actually was able to fly the entire pattern without breaking out of it. Each subsequent round I saw improvement in my flying and I was hooked.

So my suggestion is this. I think we should get rid of the Sportsman class in favor of a beginners Classic Pattern Class. A beginner class in which is not turn around but all centered manuevers. We could call it a Club Class if you will. My old-timer friend Andy said that back in the day it was not unusual to have 50 or 60 guys show up for a contest. If we can find a way to make it less intimidating to get these guys out there, a certain percentage will get hooked with the sport.

Evan
Old 04-20-2012, 09:30 PM
  #2  
danamania
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

I suggest keeping the Sportsman class and adding a Basic sequence as in IMAC?  It is 10 vs 17 scored maneuvers.  Consider also eliminating the need to exit and re-enter the box as this just adds to the newbie workload.  While the opportunity to reset one's position seems advantageous, it is just needless complexity for those new to turnaround aerobatics, IMO.  Might also consider leaving takeoffs & landings unscored for a basic sequence.  One loop is enough for us newbies to get right, BTW.  If the workload is so reduced, suggest leaving the basic as turnaround based since that is fundamental and key to precision flying.  We still need to fly in the box, just make it easier to stay in it please.  Half the workload of the current Sportsman would be fun and challenging enough.  Would make for a sequence that builds skills and confidence before the flight falls apart for the noob.  Consider also the shorter flight time of those of us who started flying smaller electrics, i.e., 4-6S with 6 minutes of safe flying time.  Less is more opportunity to enjoy, get right, and not worry about running out of juice near the end of the sequence.  I was new to competition last season and am still far from mastering either the Basic or Sportsman sequences so I think this would benefit NSRCA.  Dana


Old 04-20-2012, 10:12 PM
  #3  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Dana,

We've discussed the idea of a Basic class from time to time. Most tend to oppose adding another class to Pattern. There are various reasons, some administrative and some technical.

The Sportsman schedule has the exit and re-entry in the middle of the sequence specifically to address workload of the Sports pilot...our thought was the pilot may need a breather in the middle of the sequence.

It may serve just as well, maybe better, to remove 2 maneuvers and eliminate the exit and re-entry. At the risk of (pardon the expression) dumbing down Sportsman too far, 2 less maneuvers (choice) will reduce flying time to just a couple minutes per sequence. Well, that may be enough for the Sports pilot, and hopefully he won't feel cheated for the entry fee he paid. The last thing we wantto do is irritate the same people we want to attract by giving them insufficient flying time and exposure

TO's and Landings should be scored maneuvers for all AMA classes, particularly the lower classes where skills are emerging. Control demonstration is most important to the judge. Afterall, not to belabor the obvious, this is a judged event and is a competition.....
Old 04-21-2012, 02:47 AM
  #4  
cmoulder
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ossining, NY
Posts: 2,819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: MTK

Dana,

We've discussed the idea of a Basic class from time to time. Most tend to oppose adding another class to Pattern. There are various reasons, some administrative and some technical.

The Sportsman schedule has the exit and re-entry in the middle of the sequence specifically to address workload of the Sports pilot...our thought was the pilot may need a breather in the middle of the sequence.

It may serve just as well, maybe better, to remove 2 maneuvers and eliminate the exit and re-entry. At the risk of (pardon the expression) dumbing down Sportsman too far, 2 less maneuvers (choice) will reduce flying time to just a couple minutes per sequence. Well, that may be enough for the Sports pilot, and hopefully he won't feel cheated for the entry fee he paid. The last thing we wantto do is irritate the same people we want to attract by giving them insufficient flying time and exposure

TO's and Landings should be scored maneuvers for all AMA classes, particularly the lower classes where skills are emerging. Control demonstration is most important to the judge. Afterall, not to belabor the obvious, this is a judged event and is a competition.....
Or there could be a reduced entry fee for Sportsman or an elimination of entry fee if the field where the competition is taking place is the Sportsman pilot's home field.

Old 04-21-2012, 04:29 AM
  #5  
jetmech43
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

We are going to do a club sportmans contest at my club soon, alot of people seem interested. No turn around everything will be center only
Old 04-21-2012, 05:47 AM
  #6  
RC11
My Feedback: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St.Clairsville, OH
Posts: 533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

In my limited experience: Get the pilot who seems interested to call for you. They get to see the manouvers and before you know it they are critiquing you. Arch Stafford use this approach with both myself and my son. We now have 6 of 40 pilots in our club that have competed.
Another point::: There has to be contests to attend!

RC D4
At our contest we do keep the entry fee lower for Sportsman and 1st timers will have the entire weekend free of charge, good eats and all!

St.Clairsville, Ohio. OHIO VALLEY PATTERN CLASSIC Aug 25 and 26. See you there!

Rick Cilles [email protected]
Old 04-21-2012, 06:45 AM
  #7  
underdw
My Feedback: (2)
 
underdw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Erie CO
Posts: 370
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

One on one recruitment, encouragement, and mentoring has worked best for me
Old 04-21-2012, 07:35 AM
  #8  
Anthony-RCU
My Feedback: (2)
 
Anthony-RCU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ossining, NY
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Maybe an easy one would be to post a video of the sportsman sequence on the NSRCA page so those interested can see what it actually looks like.

Most I have met who come to a contest "just to see" usually regret not bringing a plane once they saw the sequence being flown. A number of years ago we coached a newly soloed pilot through a primer I was running completely cold. He just showed up that Saturday morning wanting to fly and we walked him through.

Another idea would be to create a "club contest" program with a simple sequence and rules. If each NSRCA member could try to run one of these on a Saturday morning at there local club it could have quite an impact.

To the OP thanks for the effort always good to get a fresh perspective.
Old 04-21-2012, 06:02 PM
  #9  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

ORIGINAL: cmoulder


Or there could be a reduced entry fee for Sportsman or an elimination of entry fee if the field where the competition is taking place is the Sportsman pilot's home field.

That's been done occasionally....... I have no problem allowing Sportsmen in at no cost or half cost, at all contests. If the club admin agrees, I agree
Old 04-21-2012, 06:39 PM
  #10  
Jetdesign
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

In my first year ever flying rc planes, I drove 3.5 hours to a contest in new Hampshire. I had no idea what a sequence looked like, so Scott Smith flew one for me prior to the judges meeting. He gave Mr some pointers and called for me. I got a few zeros my first round, but I may have made one round without any zeros. That was my goal.

Pattern I'd about progress, about challenging yourself to fly better. There is no need to make it any easier, just a need to continue to reinforce the spirit and fun. Its only a bunch of straight lines and loop segments

I think a great way to get more people involved would be for us to try different clubs or fields, and let people see what Patten flying is. Once I understood and started practicing, I got a lit of compliments from people who had no exposure. It is a graceful style of flying, even if your just practicing loops and segments.
Old 04-21-2012, 06:57 PM
  #11  
speedracerntrixie
My Feedback: (29)
 
speedracerntrixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happy Valley, Oregon
Posts: 8,177
Received 71 Likes on 68 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

I think that if a guy has enough interest he will give it a try. IMO all these things to get people over to fly a few sequences is all fine and dandy but few of the guys we "Lure" over with these tatics will actually stick around. Out of an average club there may be 10% that will want to fly competition at all. Devide that up between Pattern, IMAC and racing. On average at any one event it usually takes guys from several clubs to reach 40 pilots. Not too sure there is anything we can do about it. Any of this type of flying takes time and money. neither of these things seem to be in abundance these days.
Old 04-21-2012, 09:59 PM
  #12  
nonstoprc
My Feedback: (90)
 
nonstoprc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central, TX
Posts: 2,466
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Agree.

Time, money, and the desire.
Old 04-22-2012, 04:33 AM
  #13  
danamania
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Good discussion, going back to Evan's post and focusing on the stated problem:
"I know once they attend a contest a certain percentage will be hooked but the problem I ran into is that the guys found the call sheets and manuever descriptions by themselves intimidating and they told me that they didn't think they were ready to try it."

Considering what can and can't reasonably changed in light of the problem statement above, another proposition is to make the Sportsman sequence just a little bit easier without changing anything else (entry fees, etc can all be managed at the local club level); this might do two things for the sport in synergy: (1) Allow some stuck in Sportsman to win more and advance to Intermediate, opening up some opportunity for the less experienced pilots; and (2) make the first sequence encountered less intimidating and easier to get one's head around. Rather than dumbing down anything, think of it as redistributing the difficulty between the two classes and getting better utility out of the Intermediate class. When considering this proposition, I invite all to seriously consider just how challenging it is to complete two identical loops back-to-back. This is simple on paper but requires great skill and experience to accomplish when correcting for wind. Why not one loop for the entry-level sequence? Just a thought to Evan's original post.
Old 04-22-2012, 04:50 AM
  #14  
danamania
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

I think that if a guy has enough interest he will give it a try. IMO all these things to get people over to fly a few sequences is all fine and dandy but few of the guys we "Lure" over with these tatics will actually stick around. Out of an average club there may be 10% that will want to fly competition at all. Devide that up between Pattern, IMAC and racing. On average at any one event it usually takes guys from several clubs to reach 40 pilots. Not too sure there is anything we can do about it. Any of this type of flying takes time and money. neither of these things seem to be in abundance these days.
Agreed. Whatever the numbers, not all will / can afford to persevere. What can be done to help the few that can continue to be rewarded with a contest experience that is challenging enough to be attainable, yet achievable enough to encourage perseverence? Add in that so many are flying electric right from the start these days and I think Pattern looks real good to attract newcomers to precision aerobatics. For example, I just flew in a Club's IMAC Basic only day yesterday as a guest pilot. I placed 5th out of 10 pilots. I had a great time and improved my flying skills with all the coaching and watching others fly. At the end of the day, as an all-electric pilot by choice, I still prefer Pattern because that is where I can progress with my airplane as I build my skills. Not having a quarter-scale or larger gasser does not limit me in Basic this season, but will limit how far I can progress in IMAC; so I am more rewarded to stick with the sport where my gear fits in. The point is a lot of newcomers to RC are starting with electric planes; we might be able to attract some of them to Pattern where electric is not only welcome, it is competitive. Just a thought.

Old 04-22-2012, 05:34 AM
  #15  
Jetdesign
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Mason, OH
Posts: 7,054
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: danamania

(2) make the first sequence encountered less intimidating and easier to get one's head around. Rather than dumbing down anything, think of it as redistributing the difficulty between the two classes and getting better utility out of the Intermediate class. When considering this proposition, I invite all to seriously consider just how challenging it is to complete two identical loops back-to-back. This is simple on paper but requires great skill and experience to accomplish when correcting for wind. Why not one loop for the entry-level sequence?
My thought on this: I was told not to hurry out of Sportsman. It is good advice, but of course as most of us, I was eager to jump into Intermediate. Anyway, I agree that 2 concentric loops is difficult at first, especially with wind corrections. But that is the point, to allow room for improvement. We should encourage starting pilots to fly the 2 loops, try to make them the same size, and to make them on center. When starting out they should not be able to win their class, nor be expected to score on every maneuver in every sequence. It is supposed to be a challenge with room to grow.

By the end of a year, you can make it through the sequence and score fairly well. Next year, you work on wind corrections, better throttle management, etc.

I really don't think the difficulty of the sequence is hurting participation, at least not greatly. Maybe one's perception of the difficulty, but with a good caller or mentor and a little encouragement I think that goes away.

Intermediate is a decent step up from Sportsman. I was told by my new district that I was ready, so I started practicing the sequence. I was flying the moves in Sportsman OK, but it did take some practice to make it through Intermediate without zeros, and I still got a zero or two at my first contest (have flown 2 now at intermediate). Intermediate there is no 'out of the box' so it feels a lot longer. 2 consecutive rolls on center seems a lot harder than 2 loops on center. Rolling verticals are new and show you how important it is to enter straight and level.

I think the Sportsman sequence is really put together well - it really prepares you to be able to understand all the basics and start linking them together. As with anything it is important to have a solid foundation to build your interests/skills/hobbies/job, whatever it is.

The goal of a new pilot should be to try to make it through without any zeros. It should not be expected at his first contest, if he does it, great! Pattern is about watching your scores improve. A few zeros at first contest, maybe one or two at the next, then none, then all of a sudden you've won a round, and are now thinking about winning the contest. It happens relatively quick.
Old 04-22-2012, 08:36 AM
  #16  
viva_peru
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Rochester, MI
Posts: 371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Hello guys,

My club is going to have an IMAC intro seminar in May and there seems to be a fair amount of interest in it (maybe around 10 pilots or so). In essence, it will be spread over two days: first day, a little class room time learning about Aresti, the sequences and what IMAC is. In the afternoon, we head out to the field for demo flights and a triming session. We have a really experienced IMAC pilot (IMAC ex-president) and he will be helping the other members trim the airplanes so that they are easier to fly. For most people, this will probably be the most useful part. On Sunday, we will have a mini contest or at least scored flights. We are encourging people from other clubs as well and we have made arrangements with another local club to allow "displaced" pilots to fly at their field as guests. My club should get quite a bit of credit for willing to do this. Now, having said that, maybe something similar could de done for pattern.

I also think that Anthony's suggestion was a good one, we should have video of the sequences posted at the NSRCA site. The judging guides are nice to have, but if you are completely new, the videos are probably a bigger help.

Teo
Old 04-22-2012, 09:44 AM
  #17  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun

This is just my 2 cents worth of suggestion that I think would increase pattern participation. Take it for what you think it is worth but last week at my club there were a few newby wannabies to pattern that were introduced to me. I printed out some sportsman call sheets and manuever descriptions and handed them out to the guys. I figured Id help them with flying the pattern and whatnot and get them to attend the St. Charles IL contest. I know once they attend a contest a certain percentage will be hooked but the problem I ran into is that the guys found the call sheets and manuever descriptions by themselves intimidating and they told me that they didn't think they were ready to try it. I understand there stance about being intimidated but the not wanting to try part I don't. When I decided back in the early 90's to try pattern I grabbed a call sheet and had my friend Andy call the manuevers for me. As basic as the manuevers were I could not make it thru 3 or 4 manuevers before I broke the pattern and I was discouraged somewhat by this. It didnt stop me from trying though. I went to a local contest to see what It was about. I went without an airplane because I was just going to watch. I got there early and got to talking with the contest director and he talked me into driving home to get a plane and try it out. I was reluctant because I could not complete the pattern but I decided to do it anyway. After returning with my plane I was finally able to watch someone fly thru the pattern to completion. Where I am from there was no one doing pattern so I had no mentor to help me out. To my surprise my first round I was able to complete the pattern successfully! I actually was able to fly the entire pattern without breaking out of it. Each subsequent round I saw improvement in my flying and I was hooked.

So my suggestion is this. I think we should get rid of the Sportsman class in favor of a beginners Classic Pattern Class. A beginner class in which is not turn around but all centered manuevers. We could call it a Club Class if you will. My old-timer friend Andy said that back in the day it was not unusual to have 50 or 60 guys show up for a contest. If we can find a way to make it less intimidating to get these guys out there, a certain percentage will get hooked with the sport.

Evan
Over here, we call it "Novice" class.

Old 04-22-2012, 10:21 AM
  #18  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

Anthony,

When I was Judging Committee Chairman, it was one of my self imposed objectives. Not just Sportsman but Intermediate as well. Actually had discussed (through Archie) the possibility of Pattern schedule videos on the AMA website too with Bill Pritchett, the AMA education co-ordinator. Bill was-is receptive... The NSRCA site install would be nice but the AMA site install would be best... my reasoning is simple: Pattern people already know about Pattern; AMA as a whole does not

Family matters forced me to retire from that job and unfortunately the plans died with the retirement....Why don't you pick it back up?
Old 04-22-2012, 04:52 PM
  #19  
rcflyer4fun
Thread Starter
 
rcflyer4fun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Plainfield, IL
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

I dont think making sportsman class easier is dumbing down the class because the mission of the Sportsman class should be regarded as an introduction to precision aeobatics. Lets face it Sportsman is very difficult for one just starting out. If all the manuevers were centered then a beginner could practice on his own at his pace until he is ready to hit a contest. Once confident to come out to a contest and give it a go we can mentor them into the basics of turnaround. But if guys think its to hard for them they are not going to enter contests. Since we are a SIG of the AMA I like the idea of calling sportman Club Class. When clubs have their funfly's they could introduce pattern to there members thru the Club Class and thus maybe we can get more participation at our contests.

Evan
Old 04-22-2012, 06:05 PM
  #20  
MTK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Whippany, NJ
Posts: 5,386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: rcflyer4fun

I dont think making sportsman class easier is dumbing down the class because the mission of the Sportsman class should be regarded as an introduction to precision aeobatics. Lets face it Sportsman is very difficult for one just starting out. If all the manuevers were centered then a beginner could practice on his own at his pace until he is ready to hit a contest. Once confident to come out to a contest and give it a go we can mentor them into the basics of turnaround. But if guys think its to hard for them they are not going to enter contests. Since we are a SIG of the AMA I like the idea of calling sportman Club Class. When clubs have their funfly's they could introduce pattern to there members thru the Club Class and thus maybe we can get more participation at our contests.

Evan
Let's see....going from memory here, one loop, one roll, a stall turn, a split Ess, an Immelman turn and a couple 45 degree lines, one climbing the other diving. One box exit and one re-entry. Did I forget anything critical? Oh yeah, all of the 1/4 and 1/8 looping elements that make entries/exits smooth and graceful

These make up about 75%, perhaps more, of the fundamental aspects of PA and all belong in the entry class.

As for a club class, clubs can do this on their own. A suggested set of requirements may include a loop and roll, vertical up and down lines, and a bunch of straight and level. Heck seasoned veterans practice SnL constantly. Should a club class be administered through the AMA? Maybe.....may have quite a problem convincing the CB tho
Old 04-22-2012, 06:29 PM
  #21  
danamania
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation


ORIGINAL: MTK
Let's see....going from memory here, one loop, one roll, a stall turn, a split Ess, an Immelman turn and a couple 45 degree lines, one climbing the other diving. One box exit and one re-entry. Did I forget anything critical? Oh yeah, all of the 1/4 and 1/8 looping elements that make entries/exits smooth and graceful...
Please let's be precise, here is some of what the noob has to do:

Takeoff and call that complete
Establish a downwind leg at a correct distance to fly the sequence while remaining in the box. Misjudging distance here is problematic...
Execute first turnaround to return on the correct heading to enter the box, most likely a Rev half Cuban 8
Enter the box / call it out
Straight & level
Reverse half Cuban 8
Straight flight back
Stall turn without rolls
TWO INSIDE LOOPS, whew!
Exit box / call it / rev half cuban 8
Re-enter box on correct heading / distance to stay in the box / call it
2 point roll
Half Cuban 8
Double-I, no rolls
Immelmann
45 downline
Exit box / call it / rev half cuban 8
Re-enter box on correct heading / distance to stay in the box / call it
Upline on center
Split S
Roll
Rev half Cuban 8
Cobra without rolls
Exit box / call it / establish downwind leg for landing
Line up on final / call landing
Land and complete roll-out without a heading change (delay that urge to taxi towards pits, oops)!

With all due respect, its a lot for a newcomer to put together in a flight. Please keep in mind that the Sportsman has one entering and leaving the box 3 times in total, counting TO & landing. Not complaining here, but please let's keep in mind that this is quite a workload for those new to Pattern, especially for those coming from clubs or situations where nobody flies pattern and experienced coaching is hard to get. In reality, just reading the sequence as it is currently formatted is a challenge! In any case, lots of good discussion on this thread and I thank all for humoring one new to the sport from last season. I look forward to competing in a few meets this season and building my skills. Respectfully, Dana
Old 04-22-2012, 07:16 PM
  #22  
Tommygun
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Burlington, NJ
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

As a would-be noob, I've dabbled with the idea of entering classic pattern, but don't really know where to start. The idea sounds cool, but strangely out of reach at the same time. The local club field (NJ Pinebarons) doesn't really do competitions that I'm aware of, and I've never flown competitively. I enjoy flying pattern aircraft, and practice some of the manuavers you mention, but really have no idea if they're 100% correct by a judges standards. I just have fun flying the planes as I enjoy the way they handle. Instead of a whole class, (or possibly in addition to?) how about say, a non-judged, practice orientation sequence where someone toying with the idea can "try out?" At least to see if they're good enough to bother going any further. My apologies if such a program already exists, but I've never heard of one. Other things that would increase participation would be to have a "park pattern" class, where scaled down electrics are used, then people can go on to join the big guys if they like it.
Old 04-22-2012, 09:09 PM
  #23  
jhanc
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

I too am one of those who is interested in flying pattern (have always liked that style)  but don't have any real point of reference to know if I'm doing things right.  No one close, that I know of, that flys pattern and not many contests close to even go watch.  I like the idea of video of the sportsman sequence.  Both up close and from "pilot perspective" so you can tell how far out you are supposed to fly etc.  I have done many searches for that with no luck.
Old 04-22-2012, 10:28 PM
  #24  
bjr_93tz
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ToowoombaQLD, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

I must admit, that Noob schedule looks a bit rough.

In Australia, we have a sportsman class that just has centre maneuvers and it still surprises me how badly they get flown. Sportsmen class should challenge the bread and butter elements of pattern. ie a consistent baseline, maneuver geometry and positioning, airspace control. Including turnaround elements at that stage makes it difficult to "just get through" the schedule and allows little to no opportunity to concentrate on getting the maneuvers done correctly because if you stuff up the turnaround you've blown any chance of performing the centre maneuver properly.

With our sportsmen class you can royally blow the centre maneuver, then take your time to reposition yourself, turn around and come back in on a proper baseline to fly the next center manuever.

Has it increased participation? probably not but it's far less stressful for somebody thinking about it.

Personally, I believe the perception you need a pattern ship to fly pattern kills off a lot of interest.
Old 04-23-2012, 03:35 AM
  #25  
danamania
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stewartsville, NJ
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: My suggestion to increase pattern participation

OK, so here is another idea: It is broader in scope than NSRCA Pattern however so please bear with me for a NY Minute. Perhaps if AMA offered introduction to precision aerobatics course materials which individuals or clubs could take advantage of? A course could cover aerobatics fundamentals that are useful for sport flying, relevant to IMAC Basic and NSRCA Sportsman classes. As such, it would focus on applied aerodynamics and aerobatic skills, while stopping short of the specifics of the SA or MA rule sets to keep the learning manageable. Motivated individuals or clubs could then adapt the course materials to their own learning programs knowing that all the right ingredients are there for the newcomers to gain exposure to key concepts and skills.
Please note for perspective that I now belong to 3 clubs with membership from 30-130 or so, and while the larger of these two clubs offer scheduled introductory level RC flight training, none offer even semi-formal aerobatic training of any kind. One has to seek out the the limited time of retired competitors and that is not always a consistent course of learning, in my experience. Those with access to active competitors and/or airfields where pilots practice or compete in precision aerobatics are blessed, truly. With course materials in hand, a motivated individual could learn fundamentals in a useful sequence, seek out others who may be able to help learn a particular maneuver (as described by the AMA, not recalled from back in the day), try it out in a RC simulator, or enroll in a course run by a local club (which can manage its own volunteer workload since the course is in the can). Finally, as suggested above, should be accessible and appeal to park flyers, small electrics, as well as traditional IC modeling. Thoughts?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.