In a sister thread, we have two camps on the quality of the Eclipse. This thread is intended to exchange building tips on the Eclipse or Fantasy. Here are some modifications I am making to my #2 Eclipse. These modifications follow the same building techniques I have used on my Smaragd-z. I hope to achieve the same flight performance as a Smaragd. My #1 Eclipse flys well, but these modifications to the set-up dimensions are intended to achieve the following:

1) Better balance for CG
2) Better dowlines
3) Reduced roll couple with rudder

Please review my pictures and advise your comments. I believe an objective discussion will help the building of all pattern planes.

picture #1 shows the mounting blocks for the Bolly landing gear
picture #2 shows the location of my mounting blocks for the Bolly FAI wide landing gear (swept back gear)
picture #3 shows the set up modifications I have made (moments closer to my Smaragd)
picture #4 shows my thrust alignment nose ring to reduce the down thrust to 1.7 deg and the side thrust to 1.8 deg

Here are some more building photos:

Picture #1 shows the floor pan extension needed with using full pipe to baffle length of an OS140 and a ES2C140L90 pipe
Picture #2 shows the floor pan extension and fuse cut-out for the ES2C140L90 pipe
Picture #3 shows the horizontal stab bulkhead
Picture #4 shows the Bolly FAI wide landing gear being fit-up

Here are some more building pictures:

Picture #1 shows the mounting blocks after installation
Picture #2 shows the extended floor pan before installation
Picture #3 shows the landing gear plate reinforcement with the fuse. Note the 1/4" balsa triangle stock used to help adhere the floor pan with the fuse. This adds very little weight when using ProBond
Picture #4 shows a typical elevator pull-pull servo mounting

Please keep the info and pics coming! I'm starting my Eclipse this week.
These are the changes I see you doing. Are there more?
1. change dn and rt thrust
2. move wing tube 1/2" back
3. move stab c/l down 5/8"
4. Bolly cf gear
5. Elev servo in fuse for cg

Hello Steve,

Thanks for starting this thread, I am also building an Eclipse and find your tips very helpful!. I understand you are moving the wing tube half inch back to achieve balance since it seems that the tail is heavy, but If I would not have the balance problem, ( planning to use heavier engine) would you still recommend to move the wing tube back? Is the wing tube from your smaragd half inch back too?

Thanks,

Manuel

If you are using a heavy engine such as the OS160, then maybe you don't need to move the wing tube back. In my case, I am using individual JR3421 elevator servos, a OS140 engine and a ES carbon fiber pipe. All in all, moving the wing tube back 1/2" will allow the battery to be placed almost anywhere within the canopy area to achieve good balamce. By the way, I had to move my wing tube back 1/4" to achieve the same balance with my Smaragd-z.

Good luck,

Steve

Hello Steve,

Thanks for the info, I have another doubt: I saw that you moved the stab tube back also ( 2 1/2 inch from the back edge of the fuselage), if I dont move back 1/2 inch the wing tube, shuld I move the stab tube 1/2 inch forward? (3 inch from the back edge?). I saw that you increased the distance between the stab and wing tube to match your smaragd. Thanks again,

Manuel

I moved the stab back to the 2.5" reference dimension to match the Smaragd. I do not think this will have much effect on the flight characteristics. So you can leave the stab in the current location relative to the rudder post. I do believe my thrust line dimension to the bottom of the fuse and the vertical offset of the stab relative to the wing and thrust line is more important. I am trying reduce roll couple with rudder.

Good luck,

Steve

What is the thrust angle that was molded in your fuse?? The instructions on the CA Model web site say
" It gives aproximately 1/2 grade of negativity and 1.5 the right trhust."
I assume that means 1/2 degree dn and 1.5 degree rt. are already molded in.

My Eclipses had between 2.1 deg and 2.3 deg down thrust molded in.

Steve

Thanks Steve, I thought it looked like more than the instructions said. Time to shim the nose I guess.

Before you add a shim, you may want to block up the plane and set the 0 - 0 degree on the engine thrust centerline reference. After I set the plane to the 0 - 0 reference, I then measure the down thrust molded in the fuse. In my case, I have a digital level, so I can get to within 0.1 degree accuracy. I then use a draftsman right triangle and put one side on the vertical molded in nose area. I then put the level on the horizontal side of the right triangle. Then I add shims to the triangle to set the required down thrust. In my case the shim turned out to be around 1/16" thick. Good luck.

Steve

Here are some more building photos.

Photo #1 - shim for setting proper wing tube alignment with the elevator
Photo #2 - shim for the wings to set proper alignment with the fuse
Photo #3 - installed rudder servo tray, Gator RC black tube for elevator servo leads, Sullivan gold-n-rod red tube for the receiver antenna wire
Photo #4 - front fuse spinner nose ring and the engine retainer ring installed

Here are some more photos.

Photo #1 - PBG carbon fiber wing tube socket installed
Photo #2 - typical engine mount blind nuts "dog bone". A "dog bone" is used to allow repositioning of the hyde type mount
Photo #3 - typical home made hyde type mount. This mount is my set-up mount. I will fabricate another for the final engine installation
Photo #4 - shows the engine retainer installed from the engine bay

Thanks for the pics Steve. Are you concerned about being tail heavy with elev servos in the tail and an OS 140 up front?
Did your first Eclipse come out ok balance wise?
Also, is the std OS header the right one for this plane??
Thanks

On this Eclipse, I have moved the wing tube back 1/2" to achieve proper balance when using individual elevator servos. On my first Eclipse with the pull-pull cable on elevator and the wing tube at the standard location, I came in very tail heavy. I had to put the battery on the fire wall and still had to add 3oz of lead in the nose. Moving the wing tube 3/8" would have solved my problems. My 1/2" move allows for the extra weight of individual elevator servos. I do keep the weight down by using the BPG CF wing tube and the bolly FAI landing gear. These two changes saves 4 to 5 oz in weight. All in all, I project the weight of the plane to come in between 10# - 0oz and 10# - 2oz.

Steve

Are you using the stock OS header, or one of the Hatori ones? I want to order one so I have it on hand when I install the Firewall and pipe tunnel floor.

I use the Macs header with a 2.25" rise.

Steve, I'm a little confused by the wing adjusters. My kit has the ply pieces and hardware for 1 pair of adjusters. If so, what goes in the back slot behind the wing tube (other than the wing bolt) I thought most setups have one pair per side, and that is why there are 2 locating marks on each side of the fuse.

When you are using wing bolts to hold the wings in place, only one wing adjuster per side is needed, I do use two wing bolts per side. One in front and one behind the wing tube.

Picture #1 - Is an installed wing adjuster in my Fantasy. I use the slotted plywood plate and screw on the wing adjuster. After I rough align the wings, I epoxy the wing adjuster plywood plate to the fuse.

Picture #2 - This is an inside view of the wing bolts and wing adjusters from my Panacea. This shows the relative location of everything to the fuel tank and wing tube.

Picture #3 - This is a picture of the wing bolt and nylon wing nuts I use.

Picture #4 - This is the locating dimensions I used on my Panacea. I use the same locating dimensions from the wing tube centerline on my Eclipse.

I was confused because Gator sells the wing adjusters as a set of 4, but I guess you don't need to use them all. Thanks again -the pics are really worth 1000 words.

Steve
You seem to have a whole squadron of nice pattern ships.
Which one is your favorite?

tommy s

I have been flying Smaragd's for over three years,...............so they're my favorite. I have now some ten flights on my Eclipse. It flies almost identical to the Smaragd. The main difference is that the Smaragd has a bigger front area and slows down a bit easier. I am planning on competing with my Eclipses this year. My Panacea flew well from its initial flight. Unfortunately it met an early demise.

Last weekend I got another five flights on my #1 Eclipse. The plane is not trimmed. I'm ready for the 2004 Pattern wars. I've got some inspiration to continue building my #2 Eclipse. Below are some photos of how I install the chin cowl. It's a tight fit to clear the OS140 EFI fuel injected carb, but.................it can be done. I use #4-40 soc. hd. cap screws with Loc Tite.

Picture #1 - This is the hard 1/8" plywood plate after it has been epoxyed in the fuse engine bay.
Picture #2 - This is the finished hold down plate with the OS 140 EFI engine installed. I have never had a problem with the carb touching the fuse when I leave the 1/8" clearances as shown.
Picture #3 - This is the chin cowl hold down plate. Please remember to trim to clear the carb.
Picture #4 - This is the chin cowl trimmed and mounted. The #4-40 soc hd cap screws must be cut to length to not interfere with the EFI carb.

Good luck.

Steve

Steve,

I fixing to start building my Fantasy with an OS 160. I was wondering if the Hatori wrap around header would work, I think it has about a 2.5" rise. Not sure what pipe I'm gonna use yet, probably Hatori or ES Carbon. Not sure if you have any experience with this setup, but thought I'd ask.

Is the landing gear you got the Bolly F3A-Wide? I assume you just cut it in half to make it look like the kit gear? Did you use the stock wheel pants? Anything else I need to know about this?

You got any other pics of your Fantasy? What other mods did you do to your Fantasy?

Thanks!