I have a Saito 100 on a 8lb Extra 300. It is great for pattern but not enough to hover comfortably. From the engines you listed the YS110 is the best by along shot. This is what Marcello is running in his Zafiro (fiberglass fuse version of Epsilon). The rest of the engines are WAY overkill (YS120) or too heavy (OS 4 strokes).

The YS110 can yank around those Extremeflight Yak-54's at 8.5lb like its nothing.

When I get one, I'll be putting my Saito 100 in it. With an APC 15x7, will do about 8600 rpm, which generates a fair amount of thrust. And remember at 600 grams it is a lot lighter than all the alternatives. It may struggle with an 8lb plane, but a 7lb plane should not be a problem.

I was getting about 9300 rpm with a 14x8.

I picked up an Epsilon Kit at the NSRCA auction, at the pattern Nat's in Muncie. It is a neat looking pice of laser cutting. All I need now are the building instructions. My web searches did not come up with them on-line. Does anyone know where they can be found or could someone scan me a copy of theirs please???

Regards,

Eric.

Here's the link and just click on manual.

http://www.camodel.com.ar/Ingles/models1.htm
Steve Maxwell

A big THANKYOU!

My Epsilon ARC should be arriving this week, I have a question for you master builders.
How do I paint or tint a cowl without having the cowl colapse or bend in the heat of the sun?
Thanks

The cowl is fiberglass and should not be affected by the sun...unless you live on the planet Mercury.

In regards to my earlier post, I meant to say canopy, not cowl, sorry.

Thank goodness for that. I thought you had a Lexan Cowl for a minute!

I believe if you dye the cowl using a fabric dye you can get really good results.

I personally have had great results using paint for model cars painted on the inside ... more paint you use the darker it gets.

Easy cheap and you dont risk distorting the canopy

After reading all the favourable comments on the Epsilon and Widebody 60 I too have ordered an Epsilon kit.
I want a plane to practice pattern flying and the occasional 3D maneuver. At the moment I am pondering the engine question.
As I don't have an engine suitable for this aircraft I will have to buy one. After scanning the market I have narrowed the field down to two candidates, either the Saito FA-1.00 or a two-stroke MVVS .91. The YS 110 would be nice but the price is too high.
The question is how well these engines will fit the Epsilon.
The MVVS is about the same size as a OS .91 or Supre tigre .91 so I suppose that engine would not pose a problem but what about the Saito?
The Saito is 115 mm (4.5 in) long from prop-backplate to rear of the carb and 106 mm (4.2 in) high from engine beares to top of rocker cover. Will the engine fit inside the cowl lengthwise? How much of the cylinder will protude if the Saito is mounted in the inverted position?
Yet another question, is the advertised weight of 3.3 kg (7.5 lbs) (with a OS 91 FX I presume) a realistic value or is it optimistic (as is often the case with other brands)? I really would like to have enough power to weight tratio to perform nice vertical eights.

Any comments are very much appreciated.
/Red B.

Red B

7.5 lbs is easily achevable with this model. If you really work at it I reckon you could get it below 7 lbs.

Engine choice both the ASP91 and the OS91FX have about the same power .... plenty for 3D but not enough for pattern. Hence my choice for a YS110. The only time the lack of power shows up is at the top of a long vertical upline with a square top and downwind loops in the wind.

I thought of the saito as well but from what I can gleen has about the same power as the 2 stoke 90's. If you do decide to go for the MVVS definately put a pipe on it and it might just give you enough. If you do go for the Saito I will be very interested to know what sort of static pull it has?

I will measure my cowl but from memory firewall to face of cowl was around 125mm so the saito should just fit.

Good choice and I know you will enjoy this model as I have been.

From CAM Site > airplanes > Epsilon > manual > page 5 or http://www.camodel.com.ar/Ingles/models1.htm
"MOUNTING THE ENGINE
Distance between firewall F1 and drive washer is 130 mm."

I don´t see how you can go below 8lbs. Wings, stabs, rudder and turtledeck are presheeted, and the fuselage sides are plenty lightened. Any further lightening could compromise the structure. You will not find anything lighter than the push-pull setup used for the rudder and elevators. Other than that, using a lighter engine mount, carbon landing gear, maybe smaller servos and Powerflites would give some savings. Bear in mind the plane balances perfectly with the radio equipment in the standard location (e.g. wing saddle) in my OS 91 fx powered plane. Mine is about 8lbs dry.

One thing I noticed the plane is pretty fast for a 3D machine with the APC 13x8. IMHO, the plane cries for a good 4 stroker for better speed control.....

in my epsilon obtains 7.5 lbs although refors all the inside in the section of the fuel tank and fire wall, use servo of normal size, and I mounted a super tiger g90 with APC 14/8 9,500 rpm.

In my Epsilon when i "try" to do Harrier the plane begun to move the wings side to side (like stall) and when i do blender and do the flat inverted spins, the plane move the first 180Âş very flat, but the seconds 180Âş get up the tail....

Please if anyone know some secret to do in correct form thees aerobatics please tell. I read a lot of forums , go to directions of 3d but the instructions are the same, something i do wrong.

Thanks

Sergio

Sergio, try moving the CoG back. Both harriers and flat spins are stalled manouvers, if the CG is too far forward it won't help.

========================= IN ENGLISH =========================

Sergio:

I don’t know if you remember me. I went to Puerto Varas last summer with my UCANDO 3D 60. I use the CG in this plane 2” behind the original point recommended by Great Planes. This position will help you a lot with Flat Spins. I programmed a special flying condition to mix the Elevators with the Ailerons in the same direction, i.e., when the elevator goes Up, the Ailerons go up too.

In this condition, with the plane inverted up wind and the engine at minimum let the plane enter in a Stall. When it starts falling down, push the elevator stick almost to the end. In this position the plane will start falling like a book from the 10th floor!!! At the beginning, the plane will try to move from one side to the other and probably you will try to avoid this using the Ailerons. The trick to avoid this is to use a little Rudder before the phenomenon appears. I personally use no more than 10 to 20% percent of the movement of the stick and generally to the right.
To finish this maneuver, push gently the throttle and the plane will start moving horizontally. Disengage the Elevator with the Ailerons and that’s it .

The reason to do this maneuver inverted is the position of the CG. Remember that you balanced your plane inverted. Using the mix between the Elevator and the Ailerons in the same direction, you will get less wing surface, and obviously less sustentation. Remember to do this up wind to get a Vertical falling down result.
Try and try. At the beginning will be difficult, but you will see the results at the third or forth intent. When you feel bored of it, try it in knife-edge [>:].

Best Regards,

PD: I’m sure that will appear 1000 replays saying that you must do in a different way or that I’m wrong. Try and you will see. It works .

========================= En ESPAĂ‘OL =========================

Sergio:

No se si te acuerdas de mi. Fui al VI Aeropicnic de Puerto Varas con un UCANDO 3D 60. Si te acuerdas de ese avión, probablemente recordarás unos lindos “Elevadores”. Si no te acuerdas, pregúntale a Haralt Opitz.

Bueno, yo tengo el CG del UCANDO 2” detrás de la posición original. Esto te ayudará mucho con los Spins Planos. Además, programé una condición de vuelo que me permite coordinar el Elevador con los Alerones, es decir, cuando el Elevador baja, los Alerones también bajan.

Con esa condiciĂłn activa, el aviĂłn invertido enfrentando el viento, el motor en ralenti y un poco de viento de frente, dejas que el aviĂłn entre en Stall. Cuando el aviĂłn comienza a caer, mantengo el Elevador todo abajo y se produce una caĂ*a completamente vertical, casi como si dejaras caer un libro desde el piso 10 !!! El aviĂłn comenzará a bambolearse hacia un lado y otro, tal como describes y tu instintivamente tratarás de corregirlo con los Alerones. Pues bien, el truco para suprimir esa situaciĂłn es meter un poco de TimĂłn de Cola antes de que se inicie el bamboleo. Por lo general es más o menos un 10 a un 20% del recorrido del Stick y yo lo hago generalmente hacia la derecha.
Para salir de esta maniobra, sólo acelera suavemente y el avión comenzará a avanzar horizontalmente. Desconecta la condición del Elevador con los Alerones y ya está, ahora puedes hacer lo que se te ocurra .

La razĂłn de hacer la maniobra invertido es que tienes el CG más bajo en esta posiciĂłn, igual que cuando lo balanceas. Al usar la condiciĂłn del Elevador y Alerones en el mismo sentido haces que la superficie del ala disminuya considerablemente, logrando que el aviĂłn tenga menos sustentaciĂłn. AsĂ*, el aviĂłn inicia un descenso vertical. Ojo que el viento de frente es fundamental para que salga vertical. Sin viento la caĂ*da no es perfectamente vertical.

Prueba y vuelve a probar. No sale a la primera, pero veras que al tercer o cuarto intento ya tienes la mano necesaria. Cuando te aburras de esto, pasas a hacer lo mismo, pero en vuelo cuchillo [>:].

Saludos,

PD: Seguro aparecerán 1000 pilotos diciendo que lo hagas de otra forma o bien que asĂ* no se hace. Prueba y verás. A mi me funciona sin problemas .

RRF

Yes i remember you and all your aerobatics.

Thanks a lot,

Now i have the CG about 40%, I try to put the bateries rear.

Wath % of spoileron do you put??

============================================

No me acuerdo de tu nombre pero si me acuerdo de ti y tus acrobacias a muy baja altura[img][/img]
Te agradesco mucho tus consejos los que coiciden con los de Camodel a quienes les expuse el mismo problema y me respondieron ayer. tambien me informaron de retrasar el CG y por supuesto elevador con 45Âş.
Voy a tratar de poner las pilas mas atras y si aun no lo consigo intentare poner un servo atras y jugar nuevamente con las pilas adelante, sin agregar peso adicional.
Con respecto al "spoileron" , en que porcentaje lo tienes, osea del 100% del elevador que porcentaje de alerones?.
Ahora, es verdad que con spoileron el avion pierde tanta sustentacion al punto de quedar muy peligroso?? Lo he tratado de usar pero en un % minimo ya que en algunos forum han comentado lo arriesgado de su uso.

Saludos

Sergio

anymore pics? Does anyone know what the exact width of the firewall is and also the height of the fire wall?

Here are more pictures . This is my Epsilon ARC. Last weekend was their Maiden Flight. The configuration that I used was:

OS 91 FX
APC 14x8

Fuel Tank in the CG (20 oz.)
VT-30 Perry Pump

Futaba S9101 for Ch 1 & 6
Hitec HS-5945MG for Ch 2
Futaba S3004 for Ch 3
Hitec HS-5945MG for Ch 4
Futaba R127DF
Futaba WCII

MK Bell Crank for Ch 2
Pull – Pull for Ch 4.

CG: +/- 40%.
Weight: 4.550 Kg.
Fuel: Dynamix 15% Nitro 18% Oil (http://www.dino.com.ar/productos/dynamix/dynamix.html).

The first two flights was with the engine incidence too low and to the left. Use the cowling as guide (for the OS 91 FX) and you can’t go wrong.
I defined three conditions: 3D as Marcelo says for 3D, Normal as Marcelo says for Sport and Landing with 40- 50 % of Sport definition. Exp –40% for all.

On the fourth flight I increased Ch 4 in 10-15 % for conditions Normal and Landing. For Pattern Flying I used Landing condition but I still think that I must decrease Ch 2 in 5-10%.

I increased Ch 2 & 4 in 15% for 3D and I can do hovers with 50% of power. At 65% I have unlimited verticals.

I tested the WB 60 six months ago and I really liked it, but after 5 flights I feel better with my Epsilon. I selected it for Pattern AND 3D !!!.

One incredible thing with the Epsilon is the Knife-edge and the Snap Roll !!!

P.D: GRACIAS a TODOS en CAModel ...

RRF CC

Sorry guys, but my english is very bad, sorry but for thees time i ask in spanish some tips for our plane []

Hola

Insisto con el CG, lo que pasa es que de camodel me responden un correo que lo ideal es que lo deje a 13,5 cmt detras del borde de ataque al lado del fuselage. En este momento estoy volando con 16,5 cmts al lado del fuselage.
tu me dices +- 40% , podrias medir en cmts con cuanto lo tienes, (el CG )

Lo otro es con respecto al thrust o inclinacion hacia la dercha del motor. Yo lo instalé de acuerdo al manual, quedando a mi paracer, con muy poca inclinacion, y como tu dices en el cowling se ve que le falta. Es posible que midas la diferencia en Cmts de la medida desde cada punta de la helice hasta el timon?

Perdona tanta patudes , pero es lo mas cercano que tengo para preguntar y en CASTELLANO.

Con respecto al vuelo , tienes toda la razon con el vuelo de cuchillo, es con muy poco mando, y cuando uno lo desea hace un loop de cuchillo sin mayor esfuerzo, el hover me cuesta, pero lo voy a lograr, y con respecto al aleteo que tenia, diminuyo mucho con el Cg a 16,5 cmts.
Los aterrizajes son de miedo, suuuuper lentos y flotadores. Aterriza muy suave.

Por favor, aunque te de lata, mandame las respuestas...

Gracias
Sergio

Does anyone know what the exact width of the firewall is and also the height of the fire wall?

Weight: 4.550 Kg.

Why so heavy? Or is that a miss print? That is closer to the weight of the Eclipse.
Thanks
Steve Maxwell

Steve:

Ups, sorry . Weight: 3.550 Kg.

Saludos.

Kool thats more like it, good job and nice plane.
Steve

Got the 110 in and ohh boy is it good

After a few minor problems. Bolted the motor in ran it up first tank fine, rich ... lean etc to run it in. second tank all looking good ... ok no escuses now then fuel her up again and off into the blue ... taxying out just checked the throttle response ...that soft mount is moving a fair bit I thought then a second look I saw the engine had pulled it self clean out of the top mount.[:@][:@]

Took it home and reinforced the F1 carbon both sides.

I must reinforce at this point it is not a fault with the model. I mounted the engine inverted so the top two bolts were in the 1/8 thick top piece of the F1. Lesson learnt

Managed to get a flight in between the showers on Tuesday night and this has got to be the perfect combination. The YS is not even run in properly yet and has vertical to rival a .... rocket ...well nearly. prop hanging a dream ... big vertical uplines fantastic ( all though trying to lay off them till the YS is can be peaked out ): D

You might say I am a very happy boy with the best plane I have ever ever flown.