MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, I decided to start a new thread regarding the building of the "Tempest", which is a thoroughly tested and modified 2 meter wood plane, based on the fuse box of Ron Chidgey's (and Gator R/C'S) Typhoon 2000. if you would like to see the progression of how I got here, do a search in this forum for a thread called "2 meter plans".

I have built many versions of the Typhoon 2000, making changes and modifications with each one. With this last one, I decided to try and make a break from the wing a tail design, moments, areas, sweep angles and the like in order to produce a much more competetive and aggressive design, capable of performing all of the current F3A manuevers with minimal effort and mixing. The end result was so much different in many ways than a Typhoon 2000, I decided to call this version the "Tempest", with all due respect and credit to Ron Chidgey for designing the incredibly successful Typhoon series of aircraft.

After many flights and a few different pilot's trying it and testing new things, this has to be the most user friendly pattern design I have yet run across. Everyone has a slightly different way they like to fly, a "feel" so to speak, and getting that feel with this plane is simply a matter of throws and expo. As of this writing, there is NO mix in this plane whatsoever. After much testing I have found a very very slight tendancy to proverse roll couple with extreme rudder throw, but it's so miniscule I haven't felt the need to even mix it out. A 5 MPH crosswind will have more effect on the plane's attitude than the coupling. There is absolutely NO pitch coupling, and you can make flat 360 deg turns with rudder only on a calm day. It will also knife edge loop, hover, and a host of other 3d thingies that I personally care nothing about, but I know others do, and it will.....but that's not where this plane's strength lies.

Spins are absolutely gorgeous with rudder and elevator only, and it breaks clean and recovers instantly. Snaps are whatever your heart desires....it will do it. Fast and clean, slow and gracefully coning (not that a snap is inherently graceful), or whatever. This area was the biggest and most pronounced weakness of the Typhoon 2000.

The plane tracks more like a Prophecy, but due to the drag of the airframe, slows down nicely for very controllable constant speed flying. It will slow down to a crawl, and yet still has a decent sink rate to make spoilerons unneccessary for landing. Want it to sink steeper? Add elevator, and you're on the runway. The original Typhoon 2000 would float for a mile.

Lastly the construction: wood. Why is it that most people believe that they MUST have an all composite airframe to be competetive? News flash: A properly built wood airframe is stronger, more durable, more tolerant of different set ups, more repairable, and if properly built, LIGHTER than an all composite airframe. So if that's true, why do all of the "top" pattern plane manufacturers use fiberglass, carbon, kevlar and foam? Simple: mass production. First off, the availability and cost of 4-6 lb balsa required to make a 2 meter kit would be prohibitive, although it can be done (see the top Japanese and some European kits). When they can throw some glass, C/F, kevlar and resin in a mold, cut some shapes out of foam and sell it to you for a couple thousand dollars with less work on your end.....well, there you have your answer. But is it better? No, not particularly. In many ways it's much worse, because it's pre molded, you are limited to thier equipment selection or close to it. Any major alteration is out of the question for the average guy. And durability? Well as long as you take care of both equally, the wood plane will far outlast the composite plane.

All of this being said, the Tempest is by definition a composite airframe. It uses wood, carbon fiber and fiberglass in a specific combination to provide one of the strongest, most user friendly competition airframes currently out there.

I have many years of experience doing composite repairs of commercial heavy jets, so I have an understanding of practical composite application. I only mention this to kill the notion that I'm some crotchety 90 year old ex free flight modeler that thinks anyone that uses fiberglass or any glue other than Ambroid is a heretic. Not true, I just have a different philosophy than has been marketed to the average pattern guy. I'm not "selling" anything just yet, I'm just offering an alternative for the guy that thinks if he doesn't pay a zillion dollars for a composite airframe, he might as well not bother. This simply isn't true, and that myth needs to die a horrible and painful death RIGHT HERE.

Ok enough of the history lesson I originally offered to make drawings of the modifications for the few people who wanted them, and only ask for my cost in copies and materials plus actual shipping. To say I'm overwhelmed by the number of people that responded would be an understatement. I'm genuinely flattered. I expected maybe 3 or 4.....well, good grief.....let's just say my local printer will be very happy to see me walk in the door again!

So, let's use this thread to share information, techniques and pictures, and ask and answer questions anyone might have about this plane. I'l lstart, as I am just now beginning to frame up a new one, so now is the time to hit me with questions and requests for pics.

In the next post I'll begin going into some details on parts, materials, and general notes on building this thing. I'll try and be fairly thorough, and go back and edit in if I forget anything. This thread is for you guys: the true modelers, craftsmen, the ones not afraid to take a road less traveled in today's world. And you'll see how easy it is to build a top rate pattern plane out of sticks yourself.

Here's a couple of pics of the finished plane, and my ugly face. Heh.

Many thanks,
-Mike

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Next, I need each of you who have asked for drawings to send me an email, with your mailing address to: [email protected]

I have you all scattered through 2 email accounts and PMs here, so I want to make sure I don't miss anyone. I'd rather be safe than make a mistake of omission.

I went to the printer today and rpinted off the first batch of drawings. What I originally thought would be a few pages of stuff turned out to be 3 full size plan sheets and 10-12 pieces of paper. My actual cost for each set is about $19 U.S. and some change. I'm just a guy in a small shop, so I don't have a volume discount (yet). So, that plus shipping to you is what I need. I'll have a better feel for actual numbers to you overseas guys after I mail a few out.

For you guys overseas, I will probably need to fold them and mail them in a large envelope. The cost of a mailing tube to europe or asia could get pretty stupid. BUT if you really want, I'll do it that way on an individual basis, but you'll need to specify "rolled plans" when you give me your address. Realize what this could do to the cost of shipping though, and that's out of my hands. I'm coming out of pocket for this stuff and am not making a dime, so I appreciate you all getting me an international money order as soon as is possible for you.

The first plans get mailed out tomorrow. (Rodney Tanner, you're up first BTW). Over the next week or so I'll get the rest of them out in the order that you all asked for them, as well as I can.

Lastly about the drawings themselves: they aren't "professional" so to speak. They are sufficient to get the job done, but don't expect cad stuff here. They are fairly hastily drawn, but the critical stuff is accurate. There are a couple of places where it specifies "sand to fit", because that's exactly what you have to do.

If I think of anything else, I'll add it later.

-Mike

rodney tanner

Great job Mike, thanks for the the all the time and effort in sharing your work.

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, here's the prices. Keep in mind, this is my cost....I'm not making a dime off of this. Okay, maybe a few cents because I rounded up.

To the Continental USA Flat folded in envelope- $25
Rolled in tube- $30 (worth it)

To international addresses Flat folded in envelope- $28
Rolled in tube- $40

For payment:

Continental USA- check or money order, made out to Hilda Hester

International- International money order in US dollars made out to Hilda Hester

Mail to:

Mike Hester
104 Dogwood Place
Woodstock, Ga. 30188

EDIT: You can now pay me via PAYPAL, if you prefer. I'm actually losing a bit of money in fees on international transactions, but what the heck, as long as I don't get buried, it's worth it.

email (for paypal account as well): [email protected]

Ya know that's not all that bad really, I was expecting a lot more.

-Mike

P.S. I just mailed out a few today, and over the next week I'll do my best to get the rest mailed out in the order I recieved the request. Thanks for your patience, remember I'm not a company, I'm a guy in a 25 foot shop

sigk

Thanks a lot Mike, this will be a great thread.

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Important note: These are modification drawings, NOT a full set of plans. You need a set of Typhoon 2000 plans also. These are full plans for the wing and tail set, both built up and foam, and some partial drawings of the fuse, fin/rudder etc. It's very complete, but doesn't include the drawings for teh full airplane. That would not only get ridiculous in cost, but slap me into serious copyrite violation. I'm not interested in that, just in modifying a very good design to compete better in today's patterns. That being said, the drawings are 3 complete full size drawings with about 10 or so pages of other stuff. But the fuse box is from the Typhoon 2000, so you'll need a set of those plans as well. I thought I was clear about that, but I guess I must have buried it somewhere...so much stuff to remember. Anyway, just to be clear.

-Mike

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Sources for materials and some general notes:

Firstly, you will needs the plans, cowl and canopy for the Typhoon 2000. Gator R/C is the provider of these parts. However it's important to note at this time that Gator R/C is a small family business, and Diana Lakin, the head honcha of Gator, recently lost her mother and things have been hectic. Have a heart, folks. I strongly suggest getting these things from Tony Stillman at Radio South, as he carries these parts and plans.

Along with the above mentioned basics, you will also require a 1"x30" wing tube and socket. You can either get the aluminum version of this, or a carbon fiber version by PBG. The carbon version is slightly more expensive, but it's much lighter AND stronger. I highly recommend this tube. Radio South and Precision Aero Composites carry these tubes.

You will need a set of Gator wing adjusters, and an adjustable stabilizer set. There is also a PBG carbon fiber replacement for the tube in this stab set, and again I highly recommend it. You will however still need the set, as it contains the adjusters. Also available from Radio South.

Other things to consider are the landing gear. I use a bolly F3A large swept gear, available from Precision Aero Composites. They also sell the gear pants, available in either carbon or fiberglass. The carbon ones are about 1/2 oz lighter and much more durable, yet they are pricey. That being said, you can use another gear as long as it has at least 6.5" of height.

Also it may be wise to get some feather lite servo lead tubes, also available from Gator R/C or Radio South. These are pretty inexpensive, very light and make life much easier.

Wood: There are many choices for wood, but one rule applies- get the best wood you can afford. You MUST use 4-6 lb balsa for the sheeting and fuse sides, and strip planking. If you don't, your plane may very well be close to (or over!) the weight limit for pattern, which is 5kg or 11lbs. Lone Star Balsa, Superior Balsa, Sig Manufacturing are just a few. What I usually do is buy more than I need, and weigh each piece individually on a gram scale. This lets me select the best pieces for the project, and use heavier pieces for the ribs and formers. Buy the wood for this plane in 4"x36" sheets. This equates to less glue joints, and allows you to cut the fuse sides to a perfectly straight 3".

Engine mount: I strongly recomment the use of a good anti vibration mount with a nose ring. You can either use the version with the nose ring built in, or graft the nose ring to the cowling. Don't use a crap mount or your equipment will fail prematurely.

Servos: This plane has fairly large and aggressive surfaces, so torque and centering are critical. I recommend at least 80 in/ozs on the ailerons, 60 in ozs on each elevator half, and all you can get on the rudder.

Decide on your engine choice early, as this dictates the length and size of the pipe tunnel. A standard length OS pipe and header for instance, will require the pipe tunnel to extend all the way to F6.

I wll get into more specifics as they come up.

-Mike

tph1

My Feedback: (12)

Have you bought any good light wood lately?
Tom

AC Glenn

My Feedback: (2)

i would update mine but its dead after 8 flights.Elevator pushrod failed.

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

AC, you weren't using an MK bellcrank were you? For some reason, I've heard about a LOT of elevator systems failing on the T2K using the MK bellcrank. Watched one happen myself, then a friend watched one go down while practicing at the Nats, and I know of about 6-8 others. That system doesn't work on this plane for some reason.

If it wasn't, well that's just bad luck. It sucks eitehr way []

-Mike

Dave Smith

Mike: I heard that the F.glas cowls for the Typhoon 2000 were not available.

Have you any info on this?

Thanks,,,,,,,,Dave

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, I had a long talk with Tony at Radio South. They are available, but sometimes it can take quite some time to get them. Diana Lakin's mom just died, and she has been spending a lot of time with her over the past year or so. She expects to have Gator R/C back to normal by next week. She is also aware of the Tempest project, and has been informed that there will be a surge in demand for Typhoon 2000 parts and plans. So, hopefully she is going to step up production just a tad.

But yes, they are and will be available.....but maybe not overnight. But they can be had.

-Mike

AC Glenn

My Feedback: (2)

Yes it was the mk thing.The airplane fleew like junk anyway so I only paid 350 for it so...

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, the T2K nomex versions with all stock parts flew like a pretty dated design. It was ok 5 years ago, but it wouldn't hang with today's planes. Plus, how heavy was it?

Hence why I designed the Tempest modification

Sorry to hear about it dirt napping, you could have at least sold it. But let that be a warning: DON'T use the MK bellcrank on this plane!!!!!

-Mike

AC Glenn

My Feedback: (2)

11.45.CAn you build me a tempest

tph1

My Feedback: (12)

Mike, Anyone cutting cores for it?
Tom

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Not yet Tom. I have the stuff to do it with here, I just haven't set it up. Nice feather cut rig with all the attachments [8D]

But, I prefer built up myself, so I haven't yet cut any cores. I will get to it eventually though. But most likely for my next project.

And no I haven't had to buy any wood lately, I have a shelf full. Well, I'll be low after this next Tempest.

AC, I'd build one for you, but I don't think you'd like my labor rates for an all wood plane. Even rated at minimum wage it'd break you. Why don't you just build one yourself? It's not that difficult, and I'd be glad to help you out. oh and 11.45 lbs? Good god, no wonder it flew like a pig.

-Mike

tph1

My Feedback: (12)

I would try a built up wing but I don't have any way to cut the ribs anywhere near exact enough for that wing.

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Tom, soon I'll show you JUST how easy it is. Got a flat table? Bar sander? Straight, beautiful wing. Every time. I've built around 24 panels using this method, and every single one was light and straight. When I get to it next week, I'll post step by step pictures and show you how easy it really is.

-Mike

AC Glenn

My Feedback: (2)

Tell me what to do and its done.

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Follow the instructions on this thread for starters, I am currently framing one up and will be taking pics and stuff.

First you need the plans for a Typhoon 2000. Then you need a cowl and canopy for same. Then you need my drawings (paypal or just send me the $ to cover the expenses). Next get the wood and start collecting the pieces and parts. By then you'll see how to get it going.

Make sure you have a flat table and get a fuse jig from Gator if you don't already have one. Then just jump in and start making some dust. By then there'll be plenty of info in this thread to get you going. If you get stuck or confused, just call me, I'll give you my # if you don't already have it.

It's easy, it's fun, and the plane will kick tail and last forever. You oughta fly this thing

-Mike

rodney tanner

Hi Mike
The wonderful Mexican postal service have just sent me a note to say that the Tempest tube has arrived. In fact it has been sitting there for two weeks. Exactly why I have to go and pick it up I don´t know. Anyway, it looks as though we are about to get this show on the road. . .

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Good grief. Well, I tried.....air mail and everything.

The good news is that the cowls and canopies can be had, I just got a fresh set from Tony at Radio South. So, they're aware of all this and are making parts. it might not be lightning fast, but the rumors of parts not being able to be had can now be put to rest.

As for me, I just finished up a Hydeaway for a friend (see pic) and haven't gotten back around to mine. Oh yeah, I'm framing up a Funtana pro too, so it'll be about a week before I get back to my Tempest #2.

-Mike

Schpankme

Hows the new Tempest coming?

_________
Schpankme

Schpankme

Hey Mike,

Every great design deservers an identifying logo; here's my submission.

_________
Schpankme