Hmmm..do I discern LHS animosity here?

Take a few deep breaths and allow your blood pressure to return to normal before you have a heart attack philpop.

I'm with Renegade on this. Having used RCS a couple of times, it doesn't take anyone of an IQ numerically greater than that represented by one's shoe size to deduce that their online site listing doesn't replicate their stock holding, or work out their Modus Operandi.

Now I understand that their MO does 'irritate' your average LHS proprietor. But the cold harsh reality when it comes to money is that no-one would care, and as it is many don't, if the three stooges could supply on demand what they actually list. Unfortunately, as I've previously scribed elsewhere in this medium, their adoption of Australia's version of a "just in time delivery" inventory system translates into "we can get that in for you (if the distributor has it in stock)" ranks alongside standing in a queue for McDonalds product with me. Having tried it, it just never re-occurs. Don't care for the 'product', detest the 'service' and since military days, won't, don't queue for anything P E R I O D.

So as for people like me and Renegade re-using RCS. Bzzzzt. Go directly to Jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. [&o]

As long as the internet and choice is with us, in my view your own worst enemy is lies within your single line distribution and a prominent Australian distributor. It's just that of the dealers who recognise that, Divide et Imperia means 'battle' is never joined and the imperator reluctant to renounce practices suited only to antiquity persists. Gotta go. Student awaits.

PS: Renegade. Nothing wrong with your being specific or particular about demanding you get what was represented and ordered where you spend your money. Only "were it more so" that enables Australian LHS and online (r)etailers to get away with the such generally abysmal standards of 'service' that they do.

True.

However, I'm one of the "old guard" and will shop at one store, as the owner/proprietor is acutally a close family friend. That being said, if something isn't in stock, I'd much rather let him do the work for me using the same channels and I get my toys on time and for a decent price.

My money goes to those who I think are deserving.

Simple as that.

I got mine from Perth RC,

All I know because i am involved in the rc hobby industry, is that he is giving a lack of customer support, and is undercutting many other supplies.
The major distributers are going to try and stop all interent sites, as they say it is giving the manufactures a bad name.

This is also bad for me as i own an online rc heli shop.

I just dont like people advertising products without them not even having the stuff instock. And if we need help, we are just told figure out it ourselves.

Mine too, in that seeing I'm certainly THE most deserving of my money, the e-tailer that serves my business interest best saving me the most gets my money.

Certainly is.

Hi philpop

Whilst I'd certainly agree that customer support isn't a hallmark of RCS IME, it's hardly a hallmark in the Australian hobby industry generally either, therein lies the disincentive. Why pay for something you don't get anyway, and in the case of much product today, are either unlikely to need or should the instance arise that you do, will be referred directly to the distributor for in any case?

Let's face it. The shops are angry as ants because RCS is cutting the guts out of (r)e-tail pricing because they have little stockholding and low shopfront and storage overheads

As for the major distributors trying to stop all internet sites. In their dreams perhaps. Much as they'd like to return to the good old days of gilding their lilly, they've about as much chance of that occurring as we have of ever seeing the waves being parted or the time ticking backwards. However if they really want us shop exclusively overseas, go right ahead! [8D]

Does this mean you can tell me whether there's adequate ground clearance with retracts without me needing to wait till Christmass to find out ?


Boo

I did actually speak to the guys at RMS some time ago about this.

The shop itself hasn't changed for 25 years, and more to the point, the stock in the shop hasn't either. It used to be owned by friends of my father, and it WAS the place to go back in 1979.

Times change, and so should hobby shops. The owners of RMS now are quite proud that they're just a redirect company for the major suppliers, and taking the cream off the top.

Where I go, I get what I want and prompt and polite service is always there.

Even if I do call them wankers on a regular basis

On the topic of buying from overseas, my LHS guy was absolutley thrilled when my last package from central hobbies went over the $1000AUD import by post limit by 23 dollars. (my bad in calculating to stay under the limit) I had to pay a customs handling fee and GST on the items. Even with my having to pay GST the items still cost me less than what the equivalent available items would have here. I say available because some JR servos that are available OS and ideal for my useage just arent available here. Orielly's were quite adament they werent available. With the advent of the WWW we can see what is availble OS and isn't here at the right price. My LHS guy agrees with me that the importers/wholesalers in Australia arent really being fair with the wholesale pricing, wanting too big a piece of the pie so to speak.

Yeah, careful of that.

What O'Reilly says and what can be done a re quite often two different things.

And thinking about it, A lot of the IMAC guys are chasing the best servos they can get, but when you're dealing with 12 servos, $25 difference on each servo starts to look really, really messy.

Said RCS. Slip of the keyboard. Of course actually meant RMS. Training several guys R/C over past few days, one in particular on an RCM trainer (POS). RCM, RMS, RCS...[:-]

Interesting to hear about the history of the shop. Pity they haven't retained the 'old fashioned service' as well. Or maybe it is that they have, well the bad parts of "near enough is good enough" and "she'll be right mate" at least which admittedly doesn't wash with me.

It was originally started by Three guys all of which are members of my club.

Ray Datodi - the BRAIN when it comes to anything electronic. A treasure trove of information and anice guy too boot.

Frank Jensen - The salesman and Friend of everyone who went in the shop

Ian Dixon - The younger generation, an affinity for the kids pays off in a hobby shop.

(You'll notice that these are not the proprieters now)

I must admit, that I never got to experience the service, but I do recall being propped on the counter and playing with dubro wheels while Dad selected his new Rossi, or a nice 8JN hehehe.


Wow! This thread is WAY off track.

So, Leo eh? hmmm yes.

Don't worry Sigrun, I knew what you meant!

Depends which retracts you use,

Um ? Doesn't it just depend on the prop size and how long the U/C leg bays are in the wing ? [:-]

--
Boo

good point, Im not using retracts, so I havnt cut out the retract bays.

How much do these planes weigh?

LEO
F3A-110-ARF

All Balsa Fuselage
+ One Piece built-up Wing
+ One Piece buit-up Tail group
+ Carbon Fiber Under-carriage - retracts optional
+ Carbon Fiber Cowl & Belly Pan - Painted
+ Plywood Engine Mount Assembly
+ Engine Anti-Vibration Mount Provided

Dimensions

Length................ 1770 mm (69.7 in)

Wing Span.......... 1740 mm (68.5 in)
Wing Area........... 54.2 dm sq
Airfoil.................. Naca 0012

Weight................ 4200g - 4400g

__________
Schpankme

Thanks, I saw the site and estimated weight, wanted to know if someone had weighed one, the estimated weight is kinda heavy

Hello, I've seen Leo and it's very nice built. Here you can see more photos:

http://wimarex.com.pl/samoloty/cmpro/leo/kadlub_jpg.jpg
http://wimarex.com.pl/samoloty/cmpro...adlub_caly.jpg
http://wimarex.com.pl/samoloty/cmpro/leo/maska_jpg.jpg

from http://wimarex.com.pl

That "estimated weight" figure assigned by CMPro would be RTF dry weight aka ZFW.

What would you suggest the more appropriate ZFW they should have desirably achieved for a 110 powered pattern ship of that size?

I would think 7.75 to 8.25 lbs. not 9+. That is pretty heavy for a 110 size IMHO.
Tom

I think you are being unduly critical, if not arguably unrealistic in your expectation of the product?

Positive aspects of mass left aside in the debate, I don't think that anyone would argure that lighter isn't desirable in terms of either wing loading or sustained vertical performance, but;

At 3.8kg (8½lb) CMPro's Swallow EX allegedly intended for a 90 weighs-in at more than your suggested target maximum for a 110, as does The World Models Mfg. Zen 90 at 3.8kg (8½lb), both incidentally, of lesser wing area than CMPro's Leo 110. The Leo is a mass produced viably priced ARF, not a lovingly hand selected material and painstakingly craftsman built unit over which every gram has been eradicated with angst at great expense in time, money and labour so it might properly display the prowess of a world champion class flyer rather than those of the hoi polloi competitor akin to our humble selves for whom it is intended.

I personally think that seeking of status guised as 'pursuit of perfection' based predominently upon how big your wallet is, is where pattern per se has lost the plot in terms of appeal to the R/C masses, becoming ever more entrapped in a noose of the wannabe clique elite's making.

I can appreciate what you are saying and agree to a point. But, I have an Infinity 90 coming, should be here Monday, that is mass produced and by all accounts I've heard and read so far, in the weight range I was talking about and is the same size as the Leo. I like the looks and completeness (is that a word) of the Leo I just think it is a little heavy, that's all.

Tom,
I agree with you , 9 + lbs is a little heavy for this size airplane and it will
make a difference in the way it flies. It might fly real well but may need
more power than a lighter model.

tommy s

Note your comments, and agree that lighter without compromise of structural resilience is desirable. CMPro's Lark is also inarguably heavy for their suggested engine range, but up-engined appropriately, it performs the lower class patterns well even with the higher wing loading.

I haven't seen the Infinity 90 (as such or rebadged renamed otherwise for our market) anywhere locally either in the flesh at an LHS or online. Just researched it here. As aesthetically appealing as the Leo, it certainly looks the part. Hopefully that weight trimming won't equal structural deficiency or equate to diminished longevity or resilience in service.

tph1 said Well, in my opinion Leo is very light! I bought it yesterday in shop in Poland and the weight is profitable for this plane! You should carry it for a while. I'm sure you would change your mind then But you're right about Leos look. I was impressed