Yes, I am flying Masters next year. I have been working on the pattern since late summer off and on and do pretty ok with it. If I can just learn to consistantly stick the snap on the reverse avalanche I will have all of the manuevers to the point where I will feel good about flying the pattern in front of the judges and you guys. Thats why I bought this plane, it snaps like NOTHING I have ever flown and today it did what I was hoping it would do, stop on a dime. I'll probably never go to the NATS and the Masters pattern is fun and challenging for me so I figure what the heck? [8D]

Looks ssweeeeeeeet Mike!

DAAADD!!!

Thanks Bret! You are going to love it! I may try to get off and come to the Jetero Big Bird next weekend. That sounds like fun! I have my Ultimate Ready to go so I should be able to make it if the weather is good.....

That'd be great if you could make it!!

We just got our Carden in the air and will be bringing it. Hope to see you there man (Bring your genesis )

Just a note though... I think it's going to be an IMAA sanctioned event on Saturday. At at a sanctioned event you have to be an IMAA member to fly [:'(]. Incredibly stupid, I don't know why they would kill their own event like that, but all well. I think it's like 20 bucks or something to sign up..

Uh oh, I misread... Not an IMAA member....Can you join IMAA at the event?

Not positive, but I don't think you can.

Check out http://www.fly-imaa.org/imaa/join.html

Yeah I found that site, but I dont think I can get the paperwork done and a memebership number by early December. I will call and see tomorrow.

You should be able to join IMAA at an event. I've only been to one event, they were glad to take the membership fee at the time.

^^ He's right. Sorry for my ignorance

Hey thats good news Bret, theres nothing wrong with not knowing If I can get off I will try to be there.


By the way back on the Genesis, I repaired my exhaust header that came loose yesterday on the 1st flight and made my own bracket out of a piece of stainless banding material. Should be a lot stiffer and less prone to break.

With the 1.40 Sport I didnt have any problems with the header coming off after I drilled, tapped and installed a setscrew to hold the bushing that connects the header to the head in place (see in pic below). It never budged on the sport, Im not exactly SURE why it cam loose... Any tips on how to be sure the header doesnt come loose again?.

This is even true of AMA, the CD can take money for membership at time of event, probably true of all organzations. You just won't have a card till it is processed. Many don't know this even some CD's, so you shouldn't feel bad Bret.
Steve Maxwell

Mike,

you need to use the copper washers. One washer goes inside the header on the bushing and one washer goes between the head and the header body. Some of the YS motors don't have the threads as deep as other in the exhaust port. So sometimes it need to use 2 internally and 1 externally.

The bushings that come with the headers now are a little longer than original ones. If you have an older header then you can use a single copper washer on it between the head and the header body. The number of washers is not important. The number needed is only to not let the bushing bottom out inside the head of the engine. I have some of the original headers that we tested running on a single washer between the head and the header body and its as good as the newer ones.

I worked very hard with Central in designing this header. I have hundreds well over a thousand flights on this header design. We have changed some things here and there to make it better but the reality is the concept is excellent and works very very well. Originally we didn't think we needed the copper as my headers were not coming loose. But when we had some more feedback and more headers got out...we realized some guys were having trouble. So a couple solutions were tried including your set screw idea. None worked well. So we got to thinking about it and decided to try a washer. We had trouble years ago with the Hatori headers coming loose and this was when the washers were too compressed inside the exhaust port of the motor. A new washer made it stay tight. We tried the washer deal and VIOLA it stays tight.

What happens is the copper is soft and will compress. Since it compresses a little then when it heats up it stays tight.

Another trick is to run the motor and get it hot. Then go in and tighten the header up when the motor is still hot. I actually use a socket wrench to tighten it and they don't come loose. I have never seen a stubborn one come loose after it was tightened HOT.

The real key is the copper washers. Once you use them you don't need any silicone sealer or anything.

YOU do not want to use the setscrew idea. What happens is it will loosen a little then the bushing nut will auger out the aluminum body of the header and ruin it. Just cut off the set screw you have so it acts to plug the hole you have in the header now. Sitck some silicone on the screw and tighten it up. You don’t want that set screw touching the bushing….It can cause problems when it heats and cools. As thing expand and contract damage can be done to the header. I tried this idea early on last year 2004 and it was good thought but didn’t work well.

Let me know if you have any more trouble…..If you need some more washers central has them. They are a perfect fit. I will see if I can dig up some extra too. I think I have a handful of them around here somewhere.

Troy

Oh man, dont get me wrong I LOVE the header. It never came loose on my 1.40 sport, thats why I wondered if I wasnt doing something that I needed to do differently on the 1.60DZ. Im using the same header, I just moved it over from my other plane that was damaged due to hurrcane Rita.
There is no doubt that the female socket on the 1.60 head is a lot deeper. I was trying different things after the header came off yesterday and I found that I can completely tighten the header against the head without a washer between the head and the header, but I dont know if I should leave it that way. On the original install I used a steel washer that I had but I didnt know that you could buy a washer made for it. The one I have is more if a lockwasher and it eats into the header slightly. That was fine when it never moved, but if this one keeps coming loose its going to eat up the sealing surfaces on the head and the header, so I figured I would either find a flat washer or use no washer at all. Whatever you suggest is what I will do.

I have wondered if there were washers for that reason but I didnt see them listed anywhere on Centrals website. I have an order that should ship out tomorrow, I will email them and see if they can slip a few of these washers into my box.

Thanks.

Mike,

The problem is the washers as Troy stated. The adaptor is bottoming out in the head before it gets tight. I have 3 washers on my DZ160 and all is fine. I made a bracket which attaches to the YS mount boss and connects directly to the header via a spring clamp. The bracket is L shape if you can visualise it. I will try and get a picture for you.

I noticed in your photo that you dremeled a small recess for the fuel tube connected to the pump. You will need to dremel that more because the engine rockss from side to side by a fair amount especially when it kicks a little. You will find the tube will cut and the engine wont run properly.


Peter

OK, will do thanks Peter. EDIT: You were right on, the tube was already cut almost clean in two. I used my dremel and opened up the area so that there is no way it will ever touch again. Thanks for the insight... What is the function of that tube? Forgive MY ignorance.

I have to get some of those washers, I dont have any that will fit OVER the bushing/adaptor. I emailed Central Hobbies to see if they have any, I have a shipment going out tomorrow Im hoping they can drop a few in.

Websites and emails are good...but I always call them to order stuff. They call them Header gaskets. They are copper washers that were made specifically for the NMP header.

You don't want to use something that can eat into the head of the engine, or the header body...If it is not smooth then the copper washers may not seal and the result is it will come loose over time.

Your header must be a fairly old one. You may not be able to put the copper gasket washer inside so you only need the one washer between the head and the header body.

The idea is not to grip but to hold it in tension. See the header is aluminum. The head is aluminum...The copper in between the two parts will expand due to heat differently. I don't know off the top of my head the coefficient of expansion of the copper vs the alum but they are different. The result is washer acts as a gasket and keeps the bushing tight. We came up with the washers about the 2004 NATS. At that time we changed the headers a bit to take a washer inside the header as well. I have only run one of the new style with the washers internally and it works the same. I have 3 in service right now and all of them are the older style. Since you have the older style you are probably not bottoming out the bushing nut....So just stick a single copper washer in there....I think there are 2-3 washers in a bag for like a $1. These were a special size both OD and ID so Central had them produced for just this purpose.


Call Mandi up and she will take care of you...but call early enough on Monday and she will get it taken care of for you.

Troy

Yep I know Mandi, I talk to her all the time. She has taken great care of me throughout this project and over the last couple of years off and on. I say email but most likely I will call her,, again,,, Monday morning.

Allen gave me your phone number and suggested that I call you when I very 1st placed my order for the Genesis, but I didnt want to bug you. I was wondering why you, now I know why.

Thanks so much for all your help.

Call anytime.

I don't mind at all.

Troy

I actually got to make 4 flights today in relatively calm wind. For some reason I had to add a little more down elevator trim today, but after looking back at my programming in my transmitter I realized I have a very VERY small trim increment programmed in. When I actually looked at the surfaces after landing I see that even with about 5 clicks of down elevator you can just barely see the down trim.
That is with the incidence at 0 in the stabs, +.5 in the wing and the CG on the front of the tube. I didnt have the right ball driver to fit the CA wing adjusters so I didnt take any incidence out at the field. I coud see that I can decrease positive incidence as in a vertical downline it was pulling to the canopy slightly. That or I may move the battery pack forward some and see if that will help.

There is no noticable coupling in knife edge but it does want to slightly roll back upright which I need to mix out I guess. I can ALMOST make a full knife edge pass with my right hand off of the transmitter but a full pass will put me back at about 45-60 degrees instead of full knife edge.

The engine is a brute and runs like a dream. I leaned it out about 4 more clicks today and its getting even better. Still smoking a lot and I can only make 1 1/2 passes through the masters pattern. I think once I get it broken in and totally leaned out I will be able to make 2 passes through the pattern.. I did find that one of my canopy mounting studs had broken and the pipe support had vibrated loose.

Im really REALLY liking this plane..[8D]

Today I flew the plane with the Copper washers on the exhaust header. Didnt come loose, I reckon they were the trick!

The 1.60 really has a lope to it at low idle, just beats the heck out of the plane.

We had a fly-in today (despite the wind) at our flying field, the comment I heard the most other than people talking about the paint job was in regard to how quiet the engine is with the 4 blade prop. You can just barely hear it unless it is right in front of you. Nice.

A small turn of the Pump lean 1/8th (OUT) can help to smooth the idle. You don't want it to idle really low when you first start it up. It will be cold and can beat and bang around. Once it gets to operating temp up in the air it smooths out and the idle speeds up slightly....

I set my idle on the ground just on the verge of quiting...In fact it is so low that if let to idle at that rpm it will die....Once you make a procedure turn and then another turn at the end of the box it will be up to operating temp and will be just fine.

In fact when it comes to landing I will decrease my idle about a click or two when I'm on final. This is the sign the idle is a little rich....As the motor heats up it will lean out. So you want the idle to be a little on the rough side at the 2000rpm idle. It will smooth out when the temps increase.

If you have it too lean on the ground...It will go lean in the transition and bark a little as you throttle up fast. Another sign is while you are pulling the power for a downline or back into an idle the motor will not drop right into the low idle...it will be say 2800 and then start slowing down from there to you low idle...This is not good as the downlines get fast....Richer is better. Another lean sign is it surges at idle....

You don't want to beat the plane up either...so just give a couple clicks of throttle stick until is smooths out. When you come back to absolute idle in the air it will be perfect.

This takes a little time...as the engine breaks in the rich setting at idle will eventually go too rich as the motor is breaking in and not making the heat like it was the first 3-5 flights....So the setting will change a little until you get about 20-30 flights on the motor. A common thing on a new motor is about flight 5-6 the motor will be too rich and will die at idle entering a spin or on a stall turn....Usually a couple clicks leaner on the HS needle will solve it or in the extremely rich case and rougher idle case an 1/8th or so on the pump....remember this is a pump and not a regulator like pressurized YS engines. OUT is lean...Once you adjust the pump leaner you will need to open the HS a little to now accommodate the new pump pressure. So reset the top end..HIGHER pressure(richer pump) means close the needle more to get the right flow for HS mixture. Lower pressure means open the HS needle to get the right flow for HS mixture.

Enjoy

Troy Newman

Thanks Troy.
According to what you are saying it really sounds like I have the idle set right I just need to speed it up a little when its cold. I have the low speed end of my throttle set on the left slider so that I can adjust the idle speed from slow enough to kill it, to about 3500 rpms. I just trim the idle with the slider depending on where I am in the flight.

It has done exactly as you are saying. After about 3 tanks I had to close the high speed needle a few clicks,,, then after two more flights it died near the end of the flight at the bottom of the inverted portion of the inside outside diamond 8 so I closed it a little more. Then again today I leaned it out another couple of clicks to get it up to 8500 rpms and it ran great in the air. Sounds like its breaking in predictably.

Thanks for the insight on the pressure regulator, I will save that information into my files so I have it for reference until I learn the engine a little better.

6 more flights today,,, on one charge.. Gotta love those Lithium Ion batteries. [8D]

It was a good day for practice with a slight incoming crosswind that kept me on my toes and forced me to use the heck out of the rudder.

Problem.. The vibration finally showed up physically and popped hard enough so that the Central Hobbies header smacked the chin cowl and cracked it. No problem. I just got my Dremel back out and cut an oval slot in the chin cowl where it was hitting, that should solve the problem. Had to make the hole a little bigger than I wanted just to get all of the crack out but it looks fine and should serve a good purpose.

Just for the sake of discussion, I am a little concerned that my reverse avalance snaps MAY get downgraded somewhat. Although Im pretty confident they are legitimate snaps, they are a little bit slow and kindof remind me of what Lance and Don Ramsey were experiencing early on with the Symphony where the plane would stop autorotation just a little bit short. Im snapping to the right by the way....

I think the problem is that the plane slows down so well coming over the top on the reverse avalance its almost too slow at the bottom and doesnt have enough momentum to present a really crisp snap.
I tried 2 different things to try to fix it but not at the same time.
1. keeping a little throttle on through the snap, that helped a lot. This is probably all it will take to correct.
2. going to high rate elevator. That also worked especially well but I hate switching rates in the middle of a maneuver.

Any thoughts?

Rudder and elevator are the forward speed eaters. Less of either should help.

I agree but its sortof hard to use less elevator. The size of the loop dicatates the amount of elevator it takes to complete a symmetrical reverse avalanche and Im already making a proportionally large loop.. It'll be fine, I just thought it was an interesting point of conversation.