If you use 8231's, be sure to use the SA version. The metal gears are so small that they get shaken to death, especially on ailerons, and the teeth are so fine, they strip with just a little wear. The wear increases very quickly; a little slop leads to more wear, more wear leads to more slop, and it happens very fast. Happened to me at a contest last year. Three or four teeth stripped in flight. Fortunately, I was able to get it back on the ground in one piece. Replaced the gears with plastic, except for the output gear, and didn't have more problems, since the plastic doesn't wear. After seeing this, my next plane had 9411's on ailerons, but I still use 8231SA's on elevators.

Jon

My new Focus2 has 8231 on the elevators with the nylon gears. 8411sa on the rudder. 7005s on the wings and 821 on the throttle. I am really looking forward to maiden if it ever stops snowing or raining.

Randy

Mine are the 8231SA's.

I flipped out when you said that, but went back and checked them, and hopefully all will be well.

I don't trust MG's all that much anyway.

i had a bunny when i was little.

LOL, nice Chuck!

Ok, back to the numbers, back to reality.

i finished the stabs, before covering and setting up the servo, 1.8 oz.

AFTER was 3.2 oz.. nice.

Chuckles

OK, need to make a small jump here, i made a ton of progress this weekend. In fact, she is darn near ready to fly!!!!

I want to thank Jim, Richard and Mark for their tremendous help, guidance, coaching, and generosity!! you have no idea how much i appreciate you guys.

So, without further blabbering. I present, the almost finished prototype #2!

Chuck Hochhalter

Oh yeah, i forgot... how bout the bottom?

here ya go!!

Looks sweeeeeeet Chuck

Brett, thanks!

Can't wait to get her going and stretch her legs. Waiting on some wheel pants, proper spinner and a mess of props to try.

You are not going to believe the weight, might get a chance tonight to get on the scale, but i will probably weight (hehehe) for it to be more complete.

Chuckles

Um. Wow. Chuck that's awesome dude!

Jeez Chuck, hold your head high bro, that sucker is NICE!!!!!

Anxiously awaiting total flying weight and reports on that motor [8D]

-Mike

Thanks guys, i will keep you posted, just a few more evenings till she will sit awaiting maiden.

What an awesome weekend.. had a great little flight on the old Insight and miss her, like an old pair of shoes.. she is ready for Temple! hm, too bad i am not! hahaha

More to come.

Chuck

I must say, to have Chuck stop by and show me his nearly completed Pentathlon was a treat. Once those batteries come in, it will be nice to hear the RTF weight.


-mark

Awesome Chuck, way to show us some progress. The pic of the top side looks like Glen W had the iron in his hand. Very nice.

is there an advantage to having hort stab like that? Can it be built flat?

Randy

Randy, the kits comes with 2 different root ribs for the stabs. There are many opinions on whether or not the anhedral stabs help, Naruke does it. hehe .

Seriously, i would appreciate and opinion by Mark Hunt, the designer... maybe Troy Newman chimes in, both his planes the Adventure and the Astral XXVISTR have anhedral stabs.

Personally, i think it looks COOL!

Few more pics tonight..

Chuck

As a fellow Anhedral flier, I'll comment that I feel like it provides some benefits in outside/pushing maneuvers and inverted flight. It seems to make the rudder correction feel like less work to correct while maintaining heading and attitude...


What are the advantages of a straight stab over the anhedral stab.....? Can't think of one.

It is also quite sexy looking...

Also, I do not believe that the kit is offered with the straight stab. If desired, I'm sure a custom version could be negotiated, but why would you want to build a plane any other way than the designer intended?

Richard

Ok, got the speed controller installed along with arming pin...

Yeah me.

enjoy

Just noticed that this picture did not make it in, also managed a little family reunion... nice.

Chuck

Randy,

What is the advantage of a straight stab?

After a good deal of flying Nat Penton's Voodoo design and many discussions, with many experienced pilots, there did not seem to be any obvious downside to using a moderate amount of anhedral in my design. My experience (and mine only) thusfar (less than 100 flights) with My Pentathlon, is that it is the best inverted tracking plane that I have owned and flown. Is it the stabs? Maybe.

I love the way my new airplane turned out, and I designed it to have anhedral stabs from the start, so my view is biased, as are some others'. Chuck's view will be biased as well. When I compare the planes that I have flown and owned, to my Pentathlon, pushes from inverted seem more stable, rudder corrections during inverted flight do not tend to induce any roll or pitch, knife edge flight on my airplane requires zero pitch mix, and bleeding elevator and rudder into the first 90° of a slow roll is a pleasure. Is it the stabs? Maybe.

Sorry, I have not flown or owned the AstralXX, the Black Magic, the Adventure, the Zeque, the Shinden, the Integral, the Symphony, the OTOP, the Excelleron, the Genesis, the Evolution, the Scandulous, the Proline, the Twister, the Oxalys, the Venus II, the Abbra, the Angels Shadow, or the next one to come that will inevitably be quoted as "the best tracking plane I have ever flown".... I sincerely hope that in due time, some very objective people will fly the plane, and if they choose, they may voice their true opinions.

Although a straight stab test has been delayed, a Pentathlon with a straight set of stabs (not mine) will fly in due time (see picture), and that will tell us what, if any, differences exist.

Hope to see the whole gang in Temple this weekend.
-mark

There is a major difference in the stabs. Question, but a rhetorical one: how much roll coupling do you have with the anhedrals? It changes a lot of stuff, especially the roll axis.

Most of it is "feel". And I'll be the first to tell you, it depends on the overall design of the plane. Just like some planes benefit from the T thingy, some benefit from anhedral stabs.

It does a few things, when tested on the same plane, with same balance set up etc and a very close center of drag for both (that one is serious). it will pretty much null out any pitching if the plane is otherwise close. This makes stuff like the rolling circle a lot better...manuevers where you are hard into the rudder, and if you have any coupling at all, it will show up in spades.

It screws with the roll axis of the plane. Any differential aileron? how does it roll in power off downlines? (Again rhetorical, just wondering if you found the same little quirks as we did).

It can have a tendancy to climb and dive in turbulence. Moreso than with a straight stab, unless the wind is DEAD straight down the fuse.

The question in fact may be "how much is too much and how much is not enough"....or whether it is needed at all. Again, it depends on the plane they are mounted to. I can tell you the VF3 just didn't like them at all. The circle was like butter, but everything else just gave up a little something here or there. Snaps were about the same, inverted and upright...couldn't tell a difference.

It's apples and oranges, because if you take that exact same set of stabs and install them on a different plane, they'll behave totally different. Hey why hasn't somebody chopped a Focus and put anhedrals on one of those yet? That would be interesting.

Just passing on some info, more opinion than fact, but those were our findings. The plane just flat out flew better with straight stabs. But I look at it this way: at least people are trying it and starting to share info....a year or so ago you could ask the question "what do anhedrals do" and pretty much nobody could tell you. Well, that's what I found so far, and that's stuff that's provable. There's a lot more, but it's really subtle. It definitely has an effect on the plane, but exactly to what extent and whether it helps or hurts overall, I'm of the opinion that it depends on the plane.

Oh, and it does track very nice indeed =) Even inverted....LOL So I don't really think it's the stabs themselves, but your design is probably just that good overall. You might be suprised if you try a set of straight ones, it may fly even better! I have flown quite a few of those planes mentioned, all pretty solid planes. Every one of them has thier own personality. Some are good, some are great, some are fantastic! (I even managed to win 2 rounds of hotly contested competition last year with a borrowed Excelleron....it just hates wind.)

Maybe I'll see you in Crowly and we can trade flights. With any luck, I can pay the ransom and get my prototype back LOL

-Mike

Mike,

I'm glad to hear of your efforts. I must say that I agree with your statement that each airframe is a whole new sheet of paper. As far as roll coupling, I have very little (see above - 4% aileron to rudder). In downlines, the plane just falls dead straight and rolls in this attitude are very axial. No differential.

Close friends have had to listen to me groan all Winter about how "I hope this thing can handle the wind". Well, it does. Better than I could have hoped for. The presentation of the plane in level flight in the wind is something I am proud of. We'll find out what others think about that this weekend....Temple is always a nice, windy testbed.

Look forward to catching up with you in Crowely.


-mark

Umm, yeah, what they said... i say FLY THE PLANE MAN... FLY THE PLANE.

J/K.. I got the stabs fully glued to the fuse last night and the pull=pull narly completed, just need a bit larger servo arm and sme kwiklinks to button her up. Cut the hols for the cables last night, shaky hands the whole time, hate that feeling of no return.

Tonight, plan on finishing the rudder and then, deciding where and how much cooling to cut in the fuse to relieve air out the bottom... really not looking forward to that!


Any thoughts?

Chuck

Chuck, you need to think about that before you cover!