Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
07-30-2008 | 01:39 PM
#751
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
LOL it's not like that....
I just don't have a solid answer to "when"? I know what my target is but I don't want to set a date and miss it again.
-Mike
I just don't have a solid answer to "when"? I know what my target is but I don't want to set a date and miss it again.
-Mike
08-15-2008 | 12:24 PM
#752
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
After several delays and some serious slacking on my part I finally have my BMV.3 ready to fly!! Barring any unforeseen circumstances the m=aiden flight is scheduled for this Saturday at the Weak Signals contest. Hopefully everything will go well and I can report back on a very successful maiden flight (fingers, toes, and eyes crossed). I followed this thread closely and took as much information of value from it as I could.
I would like to thank everyone that helped me along the way, with a special thank you to Mark Atwood for being my guardian angel throughout the entire build, Arch Stafford for his set up advice and moral support from half a mile away, Mike Hester for answering Mark;'s questions in the middle of the evening during Sunday build sessions, and Dean Funk for printing graphics and making an awesome canopy spray mask for me. Hopefully i didn't forget anyone.
Here are the pictures of the just about finish product.
YS 160 DZ with short pipe
JR and Airtronics Digitals throughout
JR 2100 Synthesized receiver
JR 9303 for guidance
I would like to thank everyone that helped me along the way, with a special thank you to Mark Atwood for being my guardian angel throughout the entire build, Arch Stafford for his set up advice and moral support from half a mile away, Mike Hester for answering Mark;'s questions in the middle of the evening during Sunday build sessions, and Dean Funk for printing graphics and making an awesome canopy spray mask for me. Hopefully i didn't forget anyone.
Here are the pictures of the just about finish product.
YS 160 DZ with short pipe
JR and Airtronics Digitals throughout
JR 2100 Synthesized receiver
JR 9303 for guidance
08-15-2008 | 12:55 PM
#753
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Wow! FANTASTIC JOB!!!!!
Hey I'm just glad I could help you guys. I'm sure the maiden will be uneventful, and it should trim out pretty fast. If you followed Arch and mark's advice on set up, you can't miss!
That's awesome, I'll be waiting for the flight reports [8D]
Have FUN!!!
-Mike
Hey I'm just glad I could help you guys. I'm sure the maiden will be uneventful, and it should trim out pretty fast. If you followed Arch and mark's advice on set up, you can't miss!
That's awesome, I'll be waiting for the flight reports [8D]
Have FUN!!!
-Mike
08-15-2008 | 01:00 PM
#754
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Thanks again Mike!!!
This was my first ever pattern build! The fact that I even finished it is a testament to how well thought out the design is. If I can build it anyone can build it. Unfortunately I have grown so attached to this airplane having so much time and energy invested in it, I won't be able to hear the engine over the sound of my knees clacking together. If Arch were stateside I would ask him to do the honor of the maiden flight, since he is unavailable I am planning to ask Andrew. I don't think I am even going to watch the maiden, I just want him to tell me how it went after he lands.
This was my first ever pattern build! The fact that I even finished it is a testament to how well thought out the design is. If I can build it anyone can build it. Unfortunately I have grown so attached to this airplane having so much time and energy invested in it, I won't be able to hear the engine over the sound of my knees clacking together. If Arch were stateside I would ask him to do the honor of the maiden flight, since he is unavailable I am planning to ask Andrew. I don't think I am even going to watch the maiden, I just want him to tell me how it went after he lands.
08-15-2008 | 02:05 PM
#755
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lakeland,
FL
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Anthony,
Don't be nervous to test that plane. I went through the same process as you did and this bird is a peice of cake to fly. It will not do anything stupid. Chris's plane only need 1 click of left aileron and about 3 clicks of up and it was hands off. You did a great job on your plane and I can't wait to here how you think it flys.
Larry Odom
Team Black Magic
Don't be nervous to test that plane. I went through the same process as you did and this bird is a peice of cake to fly. It will not do anything stupid. Chris's plane only need 1 click of left aileron and about 3 clicks of up and it was hands off. You did a great job on your plane and I can't wait to here how you think it flys.
Larry Odom
Team Black Magic
08-15-2008 | 02:08 PM
#756
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Anthony,
Man oh man is that one NICE !!! Great job on your first full build and paint. WOW.
I see that custom canopy spray mask worked out well. I would love to get a picture of yours next to marks' to see how they match up. I spent days developing just how to do a spray mask that fits over the canopy like that. The pain of taping something like that by hand is crazy, the cool thing is if you had one, two or twelve canopies to mask they would all be identical matches....
hey man have a great time and don't get too nervous on those first flights, remember to keep breathing too
please post some more pictures at the field..
and your welcome, it was my pleasure to help you with your fine project !!!
ROCK ON BRO !!!!!!
dean
p.s. and the love fest continues.....
08-15-2008 | 02:55 PM
#757
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Dean,
I actually set my canopy next to Marks and they were a spot on match. It was like having it sitting in a mirror. The only difference was that his front and rear lines went a little further fore and aft than mine so there was a bit more black. It worked like a charm and I really appreciate it.
I have gone over the plane with a fine toothed comb. By post time tomorrow there should be very little left to chance. I have to spend some time this evening adjusting the CG as I am a little bit too far aft. I don't know why it cam out so tail heavy but I have to get that issue resolved. As it sits I am about 1/2 to 1 inch behind the wing tube with an empty header tank. Will check it with the header tank full then start moving things as necessary.
Now all I have to do is get it trimmed out and put about 100 flights on it within the next month or so. I plan to take pictures of mine, Mark's, Arch's, and perhaps Bill Pritchard's at the district championship contest in Northern Kentucky.
I hope my face looks like this after the maiden
I actually set my canopy next to Marks and they were a spot on match. It was like having it sitting in a mirror. The only difference was that his front and rear lines went a little further fore and aft than mine so there was a bit more black. It worked like a charm and I really appreciate it.
I have gone over the plane with a fine toothed comb. By post time tomorrow there should be very little left to chance. I have to spend some time this evening adjusting the CG as I am a little bit too far aft. I don't know why it cam out so tail heavy but I have to get that issue resolved. As it sits I am about 1/2 to 1 inch behind the wing tube with an empty header tank. Will check it with the header tank full then start moving things as necessary.
Now all I have to do is get it trimmed out and put about 100 flights on it within the next month or so. I plan to take pictures of mine, Mark's, Arch's, and perhaps Bill Pritchard's at the district championship contest in Northern Kentucky.
I hope my face looks like this after the maiden
08-15-2008 | 03:25 PM
#758
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Well Anthony you can add mine and Dean's to that pic too, cause we'll be there at that contest. I was there last year and I'm coming back
Best of luck with it, you should be proud!
-Mike
Best of luck with it, you should be proud!
-Mike
08-15-2008 | 04:47 PM
#759
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Hi Anthony,
I am so looking forward to visiting and flying with you all in Kentucky.
We will have a fine line up of planes for sure. can't wait to see all the new planes. I missed all the fun at nats.
My wife and I are doing much better, recovering from all that loss and sadness puts a lot into perspective. I am just glad I have so many good friends to pull me through the tough times, and I've got cool toy airplanes that make me happy.
Looking forward to meeting you,
Dean
I am so looking forward to visiting and flying with you all in Kentucky.
We will have a fine line up of planes for sure. can't wait to see all the new planes. I missed all the fun at nats.
My wife and I are doing much better, recovering from all that loss and sadness puts a lot into perspective. I am just glad I have so many good friends to pull me through the tough times, and I've got cool toy airplanes that make me happy.
Looking forward to meeting you,
Dean
08-15-2008 | 04:58 PM
#760
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
ORIGINAL: AAbdu
Dean,
I actually set my canopy next to Marks and they were a spot on match. It was like having it sitting in a mirror. The only difference was that his front and rear lines went a little further fore and aft than mine so there was a bit more black. It worked like a charm and I really appreciate it.
I have gone over the plane with a fine toothed comb. By post time tomorrow there should be very little left to chance. I have to spend some time this evening adjusting the CG as I am a little bit too far aft. I don't know why it cam out so tail heavy but I have to get that issue resolved. As it sits I am about 1/2 to 1 inch behind the wing tube with an empty header tank. Will check it with the header tank full then start moving things as necessary.
Now all I have to do is get it trimmed out and put about 100 flights on it within the next month or so. I plan to take pictures of mine, Mark's, Arch's, and perhaps Bill Pritchard's at the district championship contest in Northern Kentucky.
I hope my face looks like this after the maiden
Dean,
I actually set my canopy next to Marks and they were a spot on match. It was like having it sitting in a mirror. The only difference was that his front and rear lines went a little further fore and aft than mine so there was a bit more black. It worked like a charm and I really appreciate it.
I have gone over the plane with a fine toothed comb. By post time tomorrow there should be very little left to chance. I have to spend some time this evening adjusting the CG as I am a little bit too far aft. I don't know why it cam out so tail heavy but I have to get that issue resolved. As it sits I am about 1/2 to 1 inch behind the wing tube with an empty header tank. Will check it with the header tank full then start moving things as necessary.
Now all I have to do is get it trimmed out and put about 100 flights on it within the next month or so. I plan to take pictures of mine, Mark's, Arch's, and perhaps Bill Pritchard's at the district championship contest in Northern Kentucky.
I hope my face looks like this after the maiden
when you go to balance the plane make sure you have that big 18.1 x10 apc prop on it. it's almost .5 oz heavier than the small 16.5 x 12w prop that a lot of people use for break in.
just thought I'd mention that...
good luck...
08-15-2008 | 09:07 PM
#761
My Feedback: (45)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
The Header tank has to be full. That is how the plane flies. You should never run the header tank even low, so the plane will always have fuel in the header tank. So make sure that it is full. My battery is also up in the nose, and Dean is right, check it with the heavy prop on it as well.
P.S. If Mike isn't there, my plane wont be at the district champs either so he'd better be there
Also, be careful, don't want to turn this thread into a "black magic love fest" Sorry, just couldn't resist..
Arch
P.S. If Mike isn't there, my plane wont be at the district champs either so he'd better be there
Also, be careful, don't want to turn this thread into a "black magic love fest"
Sorry, just couldn't resist..Arch
08-17-2008 | 08:32 PM
#762
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Anhedral Stabs...
Mike and I spent the day testing the prototype with these new anhedral stabs. The plane did well and they look wicked.
I'll let Mike fill in all the details, they aren't ready or available yet as an upgrade as a lot more testing needs to follow. But so far the results are very positive.
He is sheeting a set for my plane tonight for further testing as well
the prototype did well today.
enjoy the pics
Mike and I spent the day testing the prototype with these new anhedral stabs. The plane did well and they look wicked.
I'll let Mike fill in all the details, they aren't ready or available yet as an upgrade as a lot more testing needs to follow. But so far the results are very positive.
He is sheeting a set for my plane tonight for further testing as well
the prototype did well today.
enjoy the pics
08-18-2008 | 09:03 AM
#764
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
HI Scott,
I can't make it.
We have our mom's (both 70+ years old) visiting this weekend and I can't leave for 3 days. My life is only coming back together and I haven't been flying much, really only out 2 days in about 3 months. I just had a really tough summer with the loss of my father, my wife's loss in her family and our best boy. It's been a tough one.
I am fairly sure Mike will attend with the prototype. I'll be installing my new stabs next weekend, I plan on being at huntsville.
thanks for asking and I hope you guys have fun and a great meet. The site looks real nice and I am sorry that I can't attend, wish I could....
Dean
I can't make it.
We have our mom's (both 70+ years old) visiting this weekend and I can't leave for 3 days. My life is only coming back together and I haven't been flying much, really only out 2 days in about 3 months. I just had a really tough summer with the loss of my father, my wife's loss in her family and our best boy. It's been a tough one.
I am fairly sure Mike will attend with the prototype. I'll be installing my new stabs next weekend, I plan on being at huntsville.
thanks for asking and I hope you guys have fun and a great meet. The site looks real nice and I am sorry that I can't attend, wish I could....
Dean
08-18-2008 | 10:24 AM
#765
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Black Magic maiden update:
The Black Magic did NOT get its maiden flight this weekend. I did learn a few things though. I learned that the YS 160 is an expensive, angry, scary, feisty, incredibly powerful, thoroughbred of an engine that will bite the hand that feeds it and anything else that gets in its way (no one was hurt by the prop by the way). It is very sensitive to needle adjustments and will violently self destruct if it doesn’t like where it is set. I am confident that it is a great motor that will eventually power my plane through many successful flights, but it is a little bit different than running the pressured tank YS 120 FZs and 140 Ls that I am used to. Too lean and it heats up like Mt. Vesuvius, too rich and it kicks back like a mule, taking in my case, the spinner, the cowl, and the throttle servo with it.
This is how it happened:
I started it rich and it idled great, I started to advance the throttle thinking I would run it rich (the engine had been run before, just not by me). It got to about half power and really started pulling like gang busters. Then all of a sudden with a huge metallic KLANK the spinner, prop nut, washer, prop, and any sense of security I had went their separate ways. It was the kind of noise and sudden stop that makes you realize you have no idea what you’ve gotten yourself into. I collected all of the pieces and put it back together. The Tru Turn spinner looked like someone had run it over with a Buick and was no longer useable. Not being the type to quit I put it all back together to try again. Second try with the needle a little leaner was going fairly wall, I got to about ¾ power and it was really pulling. I advanced the throttle a little more and it started to show signs of pre-detonation so I backed off and leaned it out another click. It was making incredible horsepower so I figured I was close enough to try to open the throttle to full. I slowly advanced to full and boy was it moving some air. I started entertaining the idea of flying if and backed off the throttle to see how it idled. The engine idled great so I advanced to full again and without warning BANG if went from over 7,000 RPMs to zero. Uh Oh!!! I turned it over by hand and could feel some grinding. As it turns out, the prop nut was loose enough for the prop to turn against compression but it didn’t come off. I tightened everything back up and it all felt smooth again. A little head scratching and another two clicks lean and it was time to go again. Unfortunately that last kick seemed to have taken the cowl with it as it was hanging down with the mounting blocks completely gone. I took what was left of the cowl off and got ready to take another stab at it. Restarted the motor and it is idling like a champ. Advanced the throttle and it roared to life like an Allison Aircraft engine. Throttle response was instantaneous and power was amazing. One more run up and it will be time to taxi out. Ran it up and after about 5 seconds at full throttle it just wound down and went silent. It was so weird that I actually looked at the transmitter to see if I had backed off the throttle. Unfortunately the stick was still at full. What I did hear in the deafening silence was the unmistakable sound of a servo motor continuously turning as will happen when the gear train is shot. At that point I decided to pack it up, take it home, and mount the engine on a test stand. This week will be dedicated to making the minor repairs needed and getting the motor dialed in.
And that is how the first foray of my Black Magic ended.
I would like to thank Bob Kane, and Tim Jesky for putting on a great contest. The Black Magic and I will return!!
The Black Magic did NOT get its maiden flight this weekend. I did learn a few things though. I learned that the YS 160 is an expensive, angry, scary, feisty, incredibly powerful, thoroughbred of an engine that will bite the hand that feeds it and anything else that gets in its way (no one was hurt by the prop by the way). It is very sensitive to needle adjustments and will violently self destruct if it doesn’t like where it is set. I am confident that it is a great motor that will eventually power my plane through many successful flights, but it is a little bit different than running the pressured tank YS 120 FZs and 140 Ls that I am used to. Too lean and it heats up like Mt. Vesuvius, too rich and it kicks back like a mule, taking in my case, the spinner, the cowl, and the throttle servo with it.
This is how it happened:
I started it rich and it idled great, I started to advance the throttle thinking I would run it rich (the engine had been run before, just not by me). It got to about half power and really started pulling like gang busters. Then all of a sudden with a huge metallic KLANK the spinner, prop nut, washer, prop, and any sense of security I had went their separate ways. It was the kind of noise and sudden stop that makes you realize you have no idea what you’ve gotten yourself into. I collected all of the pieces and put it back together. The Tru Turn spinner looked like someone had run it over with a Buick and was no longer useable. Not being the type to quit I put it all back together to try again. Second try with the needle a little leaner was going fairly wall, I got to about ¾ power and it was really pulling. I advanced the throttle a little more and it started to show signs of pre-detonation so I backed off and leaned it out another click. It was making incredible horsepower so I figured I was close enough to try to open the throttle to full. I slowly advanced to full and boy was it moving some air. I started entertaining the idea of flying if and backed off the throttle to see how it idled. The engine idled great so I advanced to full again and without warning BANG if went from over 7,000 RPMs to zero. Uh Oh!!! I turned it over by hand and could feel some grinding. As it turns out, the prop nut was loose enough for the prop to turn against compression but it didn’t come off. I tightened everything back up and it all felt smooth again. A little head scratching and another two clicks lean and it was time to go again. Unfortunately that last kick seemed to have taken the cowl with it as it was hanging down with the mounting blocks completely gone. I took what was left of the cowl off and got ready to take another stab at it. Restarted the motor and it is idling like a champ. Advanced the throttle and it roared to life like an Allison Aircraft engine. Throttle response was instantaneous and power was amazing. One more run up and it will be time to taxi out. Ran it up and after about 5 seconds at full throttle it just wound down and went silent. It was so weird that I actually looked at the transmitter to see if I had backed off the throttle. Unfortunately the stick was still at full. What I did hear in the deafening silence was the unmistakable sound of a servo motor continuously turning as will happen when the gear train is shot. At that point I decided to pack it up, take it home, and mount the engine on a test stand. This week will be dedicated to making the minor repairs needed and getting the motor dialed in.
And that is how the first foray of my Black Magic ended.
I would like to thank Bob Kane, and Tim Jesky for putting on a great contest. The Black Magic and I will return!!
08-18-2008 | 10:28 AM
#766
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
ORIGINAL: handglider
Anhedral Stabs...
Mike and I spent the day testing the prototype with these new anhedral stabs. The plane did well and they look wicked.
I'll let Mike fill in all the details, they aren't ready or available yet as an upgrade as a lot more testing needs to follow. But so far the results are very positive.
He is sheeting a set for my plane tonight for further testing as well
the prototype did well today.
enjoy the pics
Anhedral Stabs...
Mike and I spent the day testing the prototype with these new anhedral stabs. The plane did well and they look wicked.
I'll let Mike fill in all the details, they aren't ready or available yet as an upgrade as a lot more testing needs to follow. But so far the results are very positive.
He is sheeting a set for my plane tonight for further testing as well
the prototype did well today.
enjoy the pics
So far I really like them. I had tested a set in the early life on this plane, and didn't really like them all that much. Seemed like they screwed up more than they fixed. but after a year of working on it and being analytical, I cam up with a set that had a lot less angle, a sharper TE and a little more thin overall, and still be a plug in quick change with what was already there (important for me).
What the heck, I decided to ttest them out. I only have 8-9 flights, maily through masters and P-09 with some F elements at the end of the flights. The effect was very canalizer-ish. The controls were more sensitive, the small amount of mix I was carrying was gone. Snaps were cleaner, stall turns were much easier, and the track was even cleaner than before. Inverted flight was the most stable thing I have ever felt in a pattern plane. That was interesting.
But the REAL difference was in the FAI patterns. Most planes in normal configuration feel like more of a controlled slide in KE loops and integrated rolling manuevers, but this feels much more like a clean cutting on KE. It definitely dug harder and really turned pure and nuetral with the rudder. That was also the first time I have been able to perform the last 1/4 of a KE loop at idle...LOL (it's still more comfortable with power on).
So I flew it around flat and just did hard over flat turns, pffft didn't even drop a wing or lose altitude. That was neat.
I still need to do some more playing to find the real pros vs cons, and look for any hidden suprises. But so far, so good. I hadn't really planned on offering an upgrade, but you guys know me, if it works and I really like it, I'll share.
of course this means I may have to have a second look at the 110 too....LOL
But I have some major shop projects to finish around here before I get into all of that. I may make another set with a hair bit more angle and see what those do. Later....
-Mike
08-18-2008 | 11:08 AM
#767
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
ORIGINAL: AAbdu
Black Magic maiden update:
The Black Magic did NOT get its maiden flight this weekend. I did learn a few things though. I learned that the YS 160 is an expensive, angry, scary, feisty, incredibly powerful, thoroughbred of an engine that will bite the hand that feeds it and anything else that gets in its way (no one was hurt by the prop by the way). It is very sensitive to needle adjustments and will violently self destruct if it doesn’t like where it is set. I am confident that it is a great motor that will eventually power my plane through many successful flights, but it is a little bit different than running the pressured tank YS 120 FZs and 140 Ls that I am used to. Too lean and it heats up like Mt. Vesuvius, too rich and it kicks back like a mule, taking in my case, the spinner, the cowl, and the throttle servo with it.
This is how it happened:
I started it rich and it idled great, I started to advance the throttle thinking I would run it rich (the engine had been run before, just not by me). It got to about half power and really started pulling like gang busters. Then all of a sudden with a huge metallic KLANK the spinner, prop nut, washer, prop, and any sense of security I had went their separate ways. It was the kind of noise and sudden stop that makes you realize you have no idea what you’ve gotten yourself into. I collected all of the pieces and put it back together. The Tru Turn spinner looked like someone had run it over with a Buick and was no longer useable. Not being the type to quit I put it all back together to try again. Second try with the needle a little leaner was going fairly wall, I got to about ¾ power and it was really pulling. I advanced the throttle a little more and it started to show signs of pre-detonation so I backed off and leaned it out another click. It was making incredible horsepower so I figured I was close enough to try to open the throttle to full. I slowly advanced to full and boy was it moving some air. I started entertaining the idea of flying if and backed off the throttle to see how it idled. The engine idled great so I advanced to full again and without warning BANG if went from over 7,000 RPMs to zero. Uh Oh!!! I turned it over by hand and could feel some grinding. As it turns out, the prop nut was loose enough for the prop to turn against compression but it didn’t come off. I tightened everything back up and it all felt smooth again. A little head scratching and another two clicks lean and it was time to go again. Unfortunately that last kick seemed to have taken the cowl with it as it was hanging down with the mounting blocks completely gone. I took what was left of the cowl off and got ready to take another stab at it. Restarted the motor and it is idling like a champ. Advanced the throttle and it roared to life like an Allison Aircraft engine. Throttle response was instantaneous and power was amazing. One more run up and it will be time to taxi out. Ran it up and after about 5 seconds at full throttle it just wound down and went silent. It was so weird that I actually looked at the transmitter to see if I had backed off the throttle. Unfortunately the stick was still at full. What I did hear in the deafening silence was the unmistakable sound of a servo motor continuously turning as will happen when the gear train is shot. At that point I decided to pack it up, take it home, and mount the engine on a test stand. This week will be dedicated to making the minor repairs needed and getting the motor dialed in.
And that is how the first foray of my Black Magic ended.
I would like to thank Bob Kane, and Tim Jesky for putting on a great contest. The Black Magic and I will return!!
Black Magic maiden update:
The Black Magic did NOT get its maiden flight this weekend. I did learn a few things though. I learned that the YS 160 is an expensive, angry, scary, feisty, incredibly powerful, thoroughbred of an engine that will bite the hand that feeds it and anything else that gets in its way (no one was hurt by the prop by the way). It is very sensitive to needle adjustments and will violently self destruct if it doesn’t like where it is set. I am confident that it is a great motor that will eventually power my plane through many successful flights, but it is a little bit different than running the pressured tank YS 120 FZs and 140 Ls that I am used to. Too lean and it heats up like Mt. Vesuvius, too rich and it kicks back like a mule, taking in my case, the spinner, the cowl, and the throttle servo with it.
This is how it happened:
I started it rich and it idled great, I started to advance the throttle thinking I would run it rich (the engine had been run before, just not by me). It got to about half power and really started pulling like gang busters. Then all of a sudden with a huge metallic KLANK the spinner, prop nut, washer, prop, and any sense of security I had went their separate ways. It was the kind of noise and sudden stop that makes you realize you have no idea what you’ve gotten yourself into. I collected all of the pieces and put it back together. The Tru Turn spinner looked like someone had run it over with a Buick and was no longer useable. Not being the type to quit I put it all back together to try again. Second try with the needle a little leaner was going fairly wall, I got to about ¾ power and it was really pulling. I advanced the throttle a little more and it started to show signs of pre-detonation so I backed off and leaned it out another click. It was making incredible horsepower so I figured I was close enough to try to open the throttle to full. I slowly advanced to full and boy was it moving some air. I started entertaining the idea of flying if and backed off the throttle to see how it idled. The engine idled great so I advanced to full again and without warning BANG if went from over 7,000 RPMs to zero. Uh Oh!!! I turned it over by hand and could feel some grinding. As it turns out, the prop nut was loose enough for the prop to turn against compression but it didn’t come off. I tightened everything back up and it all felt smooth again. A little head scratching and another two clicks lean and it was time to go again. Unfortunately that last kick seemed to have taken the cowl with it as it was hanging down with the mounting blocks completely gone. I took what was left of the cowl off and got ready to take another stab at it. Restarted the motor and it is idling like a champ. Advanced the throttle and it roared to life like an Allison Aircraft engine. Throttle response was instantaneous and power was amazing. One more run up and it will be time to taxi out. Ran it up and after about 5 seconds at full throttle it just wound down and went silent. It was so weird that I actually looked at the transmitter to see if I had backed off the throttle. Unfortunately the stick was still at full. What I did hear in the deafening silence was the unmistakable sound of a servo motor continuously turning as will happen when the gear train is shot. At that point I decided to pack it up, take it home, and mount the engine on a test stand. This week will be dedicated to making the minor repairs needed and getting the motor dialed in.
And that is how the first foray of my Black Magic ended.
I would like to thank Bob Kane, and Tim Jesky for putting on a great contest. The Black Magic and I will return!!
Is the cowl repairable? If you need a new one let me know, I'll get one on the way if needed.
Yeah when those things kick the can wreak havoc. Get some fuel through that engine, and fly it with the chin off if you have to. The plane won't fine trim like that, but it'll take the engine out of the equation.
It looks great though, and I'm certain it'll work out and you'll have a long lasting lethal weapon. I'll see you in a few weeks in N Kentucky. Step back, get er done, breathe, and have another go at it. Those DZs like to be pampered through the first couple gallons. Then you'll know when it's ready to sing.
Call me if you need anything,
-Mike
08-18-2008 | 01:31 PM
#768
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Mike,
Thanks for the offer! The cowl is easily repairable. The glass itself was not damaged, the mounts that the blind nuts screw into broke completely off of the fuselage. The hardest thing about repairing it will be getting it all to line up. I intend to stick it right back into the spot it broke off jigsaw puzzle style and gorilla glue it. That should handle the alignment issue as it will go back in exactly how it came out. Then I will reinforce it with some 1/64 ply or dome carbon fiber. Wah Lah, the cowl will be fixed.
I was optimistic that I could just set it up, fine tune it and maiden it. Now I have a little time before the districts and expect to have quite a lot of time on the motor well before then. going to tinkere with it tonight as long as it takes. By the end of the week I expect the 160 DZ and I to be best friends.
Thanks for the offer! The cowl is easily repairable. The glass itself was not damaged, the mounts that the blind nuts screw into broke completely off of the fuselage. The hardest thing about repairing it will be getting it all to line up. I intend to stick it right back into the spot it broke off jigsaw puzzle style and gorilla glue it. That should handle the alignment issue as it will go back in exactly how it came out. Then I will reinforce it with some 1/64 ply or dome carbon fiber. Wah Lah, the cowl will be fixed.
I was optimistic that I could just set it up, fine tune it and maiden it. Now I have a little time before the districts and expect to have quite a lot of time on the motor well before then. going to tinkere with it tonight as long as it takes. By the end of the week I expect the 160 DZ and I to be best friends.
08-18-2008 | 08:08 PM
#769
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lakeland,
FL
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Anthony,
I'm sure you have some YS experts around where you are flying. I would take that engine back to factory settings and start over. That factory setting would set the engine back rich, and if I'm not mistaken and you are getting predetination that means you are lean. I set my engine by ear and was close, but you really need a tack to set it correct. Setting it a little rich will not hurt anything, but too lean is hell. When I set mine by ear and then Mike Hester checked behind me I was a little too lean myself. I'm not sure the proper rpm to set it at so I'll let some of the other experts tell you. You have a beautiful VF3 and can't wait to hear how you like it.
Larry
Team Black Magic
I'm sure you have some YS experts around where you are flying. I would take that engine back to factory settings and start over. That factory setting would set the engine back rich, and if I'm not mistaken and you are getting predetination that means you are lean. I set my engine by ear and was close, but you really need a tack to set it correct. Setting it a little rich will not hurt anything, but too lean is hell. When I set mine by ear and then Mike Hester checked behind me I was a little too lean myself. I'm not sure the proper rpm to set it at so I'll let some of the other experts tell you. You have a beautiful VF3 and can't wait to hear how you like it.
Larry
Team Black Magic
08-19-2008 | 12:37 AM
#770
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Larry, your problem was you had that sucker peaked and it only had like 6-8 runs on it....hence why it was getting lean and hot. The settings were correct, it was just being run too hard too soon. backed it off, cooled it off, a couple gallons and back to peak....voila, the monster woke up
I probably run my DZ a little more rich than most, with a richer bottom end and a fairly peaked top end backed off 2-300 rpm on the tach after break in. So far this has yeilded a LOT of reliable runs and the only casualties ever being an occasional plug in the heat of summer, and those pesky O rings on the muffler. That's it, fuel it up, turn the motor and go fly....repeatedly.
-M
I probably run my DZ a little more rich than most, with a richer bottom end and a fairly peaked top end backed off 2-300 rpm on the tach after break in. So far this has yeilded a LOT of reliable runs and the only casualties ever being an occasional plug in the heat of summer, and those pesky O rings on the muffler. That's it, fuel it up, turn the motor and go fly....repeatedly.
-M
08-19-2008 | 09:44 AM
#771
My Feedback: (18)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Please clarify something for me;
I was told exactly the opposite as far as needle settings were concerned.
I was told that you should avoid running it rich at all costs as that is when it tended to pre-detonate and kick. I thought that was the idea behind starting to spin it over with the throttle completely closed or getting it to spin over and clear the cylinder before the heat was applied to the glow plug.
If I read the above correctly, exactly the opposite is true and we should error on the rich side? Which is correct? Is lean hell, or does running it rich cause it to kick?
I was told exactly the opposite as far as needle settings were concerned.
I was told that you should avoid running it rich at all costs as that is when it tended to pre-detonate and kick. I thought that was the idea behind starting to spin it over with the throttle completely closed or getting it to spin over and clear the cylinder before the heat was applied to the glow plug.
If I read the above correctly, exactly the opposite is true and we should error on the rich side? Which is correct? Is lean hell, or does running it rich cause it to kick?
08-19-2008 | 10:17 AM
#772
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,707
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Woodstock, GA
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Watch the smoke trail. if it's not putting out smoke, and a healthy amount, (when it's new), you're probably running it too lean.
This is one of those things where it's very difficult to diagnose without being there. I was tought by jim Ivey, and he had this "feel" that was uncanny. he could hear things and such that nobody would catch.
Did you lube your cam bearings? if not, if it started ok then gradually started knocking and died, there could be your problem.
Set the reg flush, turn the needle 1 1/2-3/4 turns out and crank the engine. let it run. goose the power up to about 2500rpm and let it run for a while, chin off. Then throttle it a bit and see what it does. if it stumbles and it's spewing thick smoke, it's rich. if it comes up with no smoke, it's lean. if it slowly comes up with a change in pitch (like hammering), it's REALLY lean. What you're looking for during this stage is slightly rich. Knowing how we do 2 strokes, it's VERY slightly rich and it's hard to find. You have to get some fuel through it before you throttle it up strong. the prelube has to be flushed out. You need to let it cool 30 mins or so between runs. Then crank it, let it idle around 2000-2200 for 30 seconds. Throttle up fast and see what it does. this is the tell tale on the finer pump setting. When that's right, take it slowly to full. Using a tach, turn the needle clockwise SLOWLY to find the RPM peak. Then back off about 300 RPM and go fly. But you need a few tanks through it first to be safe, especially with a brand new plane.
I do realize that this is not exactly what you've heard elsewhere, and I'm not saying this is right or wrong. it's just the way I was tought and it has always worked very well and served me flawlessly for 2 years. The only times this didn't work were when something else was wrong (like a leaking head gasket for instance).
Good luck and most of all, be patient with it, it's fussy right now. Once you get it set you won't ever have to touch it again.
-Mike
This is one of those things where it's very difficult to diagnose without being there. I was tought by jim Ivey, and he had this "feel" that was uncanny. he could hear things and such that nobody would catch.
Did you lube your cam bearings? if not, if it started ok then gradually started knocking and died, there could be your problem.
Set the reg flush, turn the needle 1 1/2-3/4 turns out and crank the engine. let it run. goose the power up to about 2500rpm and let it run for a while, chin off. Then throttle it a bit and see what it does. if it stumbles and it's spewing thick smoke, it's rich. if it comes up with no smoke, it's lean. if it slowly comes up with a change in pitch (like hammering), it's REALLY lean. What you're looking for during this stage is slightly rich. Knowing how we do 2 strokes, it's VERY slightly rich and it's hard to find. You have to get some fuel through it before you throttle it up strong. the prelube has to be flushed out. You need to let it cool 30 mins or so between runs. Then crank it, let it idle around 2000-2200 for 30 seconds. Throttle up fast and see what it does. this is the tell tale on the finer pump setting. When that's right, take it slowly to full. Using a tach, turn the needle clockwise SLOWLY to find the RPM peak. Then back off about 300 RPM and go fly. But you need a few tanks through it first to be safe, especially with a brand new plane.
I do realize that this is not exactly what you've heard elsewhere, and I'm not saying this is right or wrong. it's just the way I was tought and it has always worked very well and served me flawlessly for 2 years. The only times this didn't work were when something else was wrong (like a leaking head gasket for instance).
Good luck and most of all, be patient with it, it's fussy right now. Once you get it set you won't ever have to touch it again.
-Mike
08-19-2008 | 11:36 AM
#773
My Feedback: (45)
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
Anthony,
Mike is right. The DZ's need to be fairly close to being right to run well at all. You can be a little rich, or a little lean, but if it is too rich, you will get a nasty kick, and if it is too lean, it'll start knocking. It has a fairly wide range though on the needle and can be fairly forgiving. What you don't want to do is run it SLOPPY rich like you would a two stroke when you are breaking it in.
Arch
Mike is right. The DZ's need to be fairly close to being right to run well at all. You can be a little rich, or a little lean, but if it is too rich, you will get a nasty kick, and if it is too lean, it'll start knocking. It has a fairly wide range though on the needle and can be fairly forgiving. What you don't want to do is run it SLOPPY rich like you would a two stroke when you are breaking it in.
Arch
08-28-2008 | 03:27 PM
#774
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
My new stabs....
Mike built me up a set of the new anhedrals.... 3.2 oz for the complete stab, ready for the tubes, roots and adjusters, smoking awesome Hester quality.
I can say OH, YEAAAAAAAA !!!! on the plane and covered this holiday weekend...
he wanted me to tell you all that they are NOT ready as an upgrade yet, too soon to order these.... but soon, he is still playing with them, they are quite a bit different than the original stabs.
They are going on my new plane !! I am going to redo the tribal scheme on the new stabs a little bit different....
enjoy the pics
08-28-2008 | 03:28 PM
#775
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Lakeland,
FL
RE: Black Magic VF3 Build Thread
NEW STABS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yes and what about that 1.10You gotta help me I've started drinking for the KOOLAID JUG. It's just sooooooooo goooooooood
Uncle Koolaid
Florida Chapter
Non [>:] Division
Uncle Koolaid
Florida Chapter
Non [>:] Division
