That's Akiba's airplane in the second picture. I'm running a YS1.60DZ.

Ok

Just got back from a local contest with my Proline.

The set up

Cloudless sky, No wind to speak of most of the time, temps in the upper 70's lower 80's.

Perfect weather to evaluate any airplane.

Flew 6 rounds of Advance and came to the following conclusions.

The Proline has Zero really bad tendencies. It's that simple. The airplane goes where you point it. Seems I pointed mine in the wrong direction a few times but that's a story for another time.

I now have about 75 flights on the airframe and it seems to be holding up just fine. It's without a doubt the easiest rolling airplane I've ever owned/flew.

I do have a few minor things to look at in the setup I'm flying it with namely a minor pitch of the nose down with application of rudder and a slight barrel roll in a vertical power on left roll. The airplane rolls perfectly coming down or in a 45/60 power off. Only a slight barrel in an up line power on roll to the left. I've no clue what is causing this or how to try to fix it. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe some differential in the left aileron setup.


I let several others fly it and shall let them chime in with their own thoughts as they see fit.

To me it's a keeper of the first order.

Tim,
Check and recheck your elevators to make sure they are dead even. I had mine slightly off from each other the first few flights which induced a little aileron trim and thus a roll when the speed was different (slower or faster). One twist on the clevis corrected it all - no roll now.

I did try pushing the nose weight way up to the front to see what trim changes I could induce - It really had very little effect on the flight characteristics.

Too bad I missed the D2 contest!

Joe

Hey Joe,

No doubt you've visited the BVM Props website by now. It was nice of Ryan to hold the airplane while you took the picture.

Steve

I'll put that on the list of things to do Joe. Thanks

I noticed you cut out the front hold down for the tank. I couldn't find a tank large enough to fit the space provided that would also fit the front bracket. I used an IM 16oz tank which fit fine and gets me through the Advance Pattern with fuel to spare. Mike Hester and Ryan Smith flew it through a Masters practice flight and it isn't quite enough fuel to get through it. Quit in the last maneuver.

Tim

Great flying plane BTW. A Zeque without the uber price tag is pretty much what I can tell. Although it isn't cheap, it's a good value. It has a few common issues, but I'm picky. I like it a lot.

Thanks for the spin Tim!

-Mike

You can fly it anytime Mike.


Except during your "Combat Pattern" rounds.

Actually I flew through the P-07 sequence with it and it had plently of fuel. I was on the throttle a little more and flying further out and larger. I decided to land when I got a reminder from Tim that it was time start thinking about landing, so I didn't get throught the six sided loop with 2/4 on top. The motor quit when I was on final, but I'm pretty sure that it was because I pulled the trim all the way down.

The biggest thing I noticed with the airplane was its tendency to pitch down with the application of rudder during a radius. Tim already told me that the CG is not where Akiba specified, so if he trimmed the airplane with the CG in that location, it was likely the culprit. The airplane felt very comfortable during the entire flight, and the only thing I didn't get a good handle on was the snap. I didn't switch to snap rates, so I can't comment on that. The airplane spins fine, I think Tim said that it flew out on him using only rudder and elevator. I used only rudder and elevator for the 2 1/2 turn inverted spin and it held just fine. I can't comment on the upright spin characteristics as I didn't do any, and Tim's spin is upright, so that may be a possibility. Also the CG not being in the same place may have something to do with it as well.

I was pleased with the way the airplane flew. My first flight on it was at the Lake City, SC contest three weeks ago and I had just gotten out of the car after a 3.5 hour ride down. The wind was howling, I would say close to 25 mph and I had a transmitter put in my face and an offer to fly a new airplane; I couldn't refuse. It surprised me how well it locked onto lines in that wind and felt locked in throughout the entire flight. For those that haven't seen a ProLine in person, it's gigantic, with a generous side area on the fuse, so that struck me as odd that it locked in so well. Not complaining by any streach of the imagination, just cool. That first flight, Tim did have me to some vertical uplines with a roll to the left to see if I could tell that aformentioned displacement was prevalent, which it was. I didn't notice it on the last flight through the P sequence as much, not that I was trying to avoid it, it just didn't stand out that bad to me.

All in all, it's a great airplane. I think Tim hit everything that could be mentioned about it. I certainly have noticed an improvement in his flying after having switched to this airplane. I would say it's a keeper.

Thanks Ryan,

Last night I was reading my notes on the last few airplanes I've owned and every single one of them had the same problem. The pitch down with application of rudder. I'm sure it's the setup on the airplane and not the design. I will try moving the CG a bit farther forward and see. Did you spin it on low rates? I do have a good bit more down elev throw with less expo than up. When this airplane does a spin with rudder and elev only it's a thing of sheer beauty. It's almost like cheating.

I'm going to practice over the winter on using the sticks rather than the snap button like you and several others suggested.

I hope to have my second ProLine flying next weekend. Same set up except I think I'm going with the servo's in the stab.

Tim

I detect a trend... perhaps you are pushing on elevator when you use rudder? [8D]

Well I really don't think so. I've tried it hands off the right stick. I'm just trying to figure out the flight dynamics that could cause this.

You fly yours yet?

You slacker you.

Tim

Stab produces negative lift in straight and level, add rudder and resulting yaw blanks out part of stab, negative lift decreases and nose drops. Waddya think?

So changing the stab AOA should change the pitching to one degree or the other depending on which way the stab was moved. Should be easy to test that theory.

I admit I moved the stab on the first plane before I flew it. I'll check the them Sat and see how close they are to what Akiba-San said to put them at. From memory, .4 pos wing and .25 neg for the stab.

What I did was to fly the first one and set the CG close to spec's from the designer. Once I flew it I just moved the stab untill I got the elev trim centered. Might have been the wrong thing to do.

Tim

I think I am really saying that behavior is inherent in all ‘stable’ aircraft. (Full scale MU-2 stab airfoil appears upside down!) If your stab were neutral, the plane would be incredibly twitchy in pitch.

Fortunately we don’t have to do any <significant> rudder only maneuvers (stall turn not withstanding.) But I do understand giving significant correction can cause undesirable pitch deviations…so get the wings level (or perpendicular) before pushing or pulling (at least that’s what I’m working on!)

Tim,

I assume you've done some knife edge mixing on the airplane? To me it seems like it would be something in the radio, namely your knife edge mixing kicking in.

That's not to say that it's not more complex than that, however to me that would seem to be a simple enough starting point, and one easier to prove/disprove.

Hi Ryan

The only mix in the radio is a tiny bit of down elev at low throttle. I did have some rudder to elev mix but I took it out , or pretty sure I did anyway Dick Hanson seems to think it's caused by to aft of CG. Maybe I'll get to play a bit this weekend and find out.

Tim

Tim,
Mine pitches towards the belly in knife edge also. I've fussed with the CG (moving it forward) and it helped a bit, but it's still there. For the amount of rudder needed on the knife edge, the elevator deflection is very slight. At full rudder throw, the elevator moves about 3/32". Mine is snapping and spinning just fine now, still not a pretty as the Angel's Shadow, but very crisp and getting more predicable for me.

I agree the handling of the plane in heavy wind is exceptional. It stays pretty darn straight is a 15 mph crosswind with little effort.

I "tried" the new FAi sequences this weekend and IT does all the maneuvers with ease. the trick is getting my brain to process adding power when I'm headed straight towrds the ground in a knife edge loop. That's a little counter intuitive.

It sure looks nice in the air though. Sweet.

Joe

Does anyone know if the Extreme composite proline is going to be used in the World championships in Argentina next month?
Can anyone tell me if Akiba is using an ARF here? and where do i get one of those gorgeous minimalist transmitter trays he has.

Doubtful. I'll know in a week.

why is it doubtful?...what are you using?

Riot is using the Akiba version of the ProLine - not the Extreme version. I suspect that there won't be an Extreme version at the WC... since they were just released - 1st in the Japanese market and then in the US.

Akiba will be using his own personal built ones.

Awesome, i`m sure riot will do well... I can confirm that the my fling buddy Steve Coram has just left for Sydney for 2 other connecting flights to south America with the rest of the Australian team including Bill Bloodworth & Adam Crossman all competeing with their Oxai built planes & OS 200 SC...C`MON Ausssie!!! OI OI OI

Just came in from the work shop after putting the last touches on my second ProLine. I noticed the finish is better on this one than the first but the one thing I didn't notice until I was installing some decals. I cut out the "YS" decal for the nose and when I went to put it on it caught me off guard. There's no seams on this one! Why I didn't notice before I've no clue. The first one has a noticeable seam.

If the canopy glue ,RC56, dries overnight I hope to test fly it tomorrow.

Tim

Hi Tim... Great to hear you have a second one on the go, have you gone for another 160 or the 170?

Really no seams? You`ll have to post some pics so we can all drool!! mine should have arrived last week [&o], maybe this week

Scott