Wow,

Quiet thread all of a sudden. Everybody must be working on their winter projects....lol Dave, did you ever get you setup complete? I am probably going to start on my build in the next day or so. Looking forward to flying it. Hope it flies as good as the last one I had. No reason to think that it won't. In fact, I am going from 5S setup to a 6S setup in this one, mainly because I already have 6S batteries I am using in my Miss Wind and plan on using them in this one too. Hope all is well with everyone...

Larry..

Larry

The problem is there is no problem with the Angel, so no one has anything to say, I am thinking of getting one of the yellow ones if I can find one in the UK and putting an IC in it just so I can fly longer and practice more, the batteries don't last long enough to get two full schedules in with some repeat manouvres.

Mike

Mike,

You are right, there are no prolems with the Angel. I too am hoping to get longer flight times since I am moving to 6S from 5S. With the first Angel that I had, I had to push it pretty hard to do some of the pattern maneuvers, and I was flying about 8 minutes on a 5S 5000 pack. It would take around 3900 to 4100 mah to restore the batteries. So I am hoping with a 6S 5000 setup I won't have to push it as hard and get longer flight times. I am flying 10+ minutes on my Wind with 8S 4900 packs and only using about 55 to 60% of the batteries. Really pleased with that setup and plenty of power to perform any maneuver, even with a good wind blowing.

It would be nice to see someone put an IC engine in one. As long as it was not a shaker at idle, the airframe should hold up fine. Keep us informed if you try that route.

Larry...

Hey guys....

Sorry I just got a little busy and with 10 inches of snow there wasn't any hurry to finish her up. I did however download a Genesis into the RF sim and tried to set the movements like the Angel. "Didn't like that" Way too much expo. The Angel is calling for 80, 60, 50% on some surfaces.
Do you guys fly with that much expo....?

Thanks
Dave

There has been quite a few IC conversions. This thread shows some . .

The OS55AX is a popular choice. I have a friend with one and it flies nice, however if I was ever to do one (which I doubt . . EP is better IMO), I would do this . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxVp4miFYc

Cheers, JB

Larry

I have converted an Angel to IC already for a pal of mine, so its an easy conversion in reality even SebArt do a conversion specifically designed for the Angel.

Mike


EDIT: Post 149 on page 6.

Mike,

That's right. I remember seeing a IC conversion kit offered for the Angel on one of the sites....

Dave,

I personally fly with quite a bit of expo. I personally don't like flipping switches so I do not use dual rates. I just set the throws needed for a snap (usually the full recommended throws) and then tone it down with expo. Again, this is a personal preference thing, some guys don't like using expo and like the sensitive feeling.

Larry...

Dave

I tend to fly with about 40% expo on most of my airframes, this seems to be about the optimum to keep the middle of the movement feeling the same as the extreme ends of the movement, I only use expo on the elevator and ailerons, I like to feel the rudder.

Just a small aside on vectored thrust I use revearse expo to get maximum movement almost immediatly from the thrust tube, seems to work much better that way, and far more fun in the pin wheel manouvres. LOL

Mike

Hello,

After following this thread for a little while, I finally decided to bite the bullet and get the plane. Sprit Model only had the yellow version left which suited me well, since I like the color: it is an easy color to see at a distance. The plane arrived in 6 days and in perfect condition. When I first lifted the shipping box I was surprised as it felt heavy, but after taking the it apart I realized that it had been lined with 3 mm plywood! Needless to say, the plane arrived undamaged.

My first impression was WOW! Very nicely built plane and very light. I am currently working on a Fliton Extra 330 (the 60" one) which is also very well built but not as light. I am impressed. I am just getting started in pattern and would like to use this plane as my pattern trainer, but also hope to take it to a contest or two to see what it is like. I would just be flying the sportsman schedule.

I have enclosed a couple of photos of the plane next to the WM Groovy 50 3A which I currently fly. The Angel is definitely bigger and the fuselage just looks huge by comparison. The Groovy weight 5.5 lbs ready to fly (electric) and I am hoping to keep the Angel under 6 lbs. The Groovy is a good flier, but I suspect that the Angel is a much better plane.

Can't wait for spring.

Teo

The Angel will knock spots off the Groovy, in fact the amount of trimming and mixing work I had to do on my Groovy to make it fly straight always made me feel it was not a good airframe, as I have had to do so little to the Angel makes me like it more and more.

Mike

Mike,

You are correct to say that the Groovy took some effort to get it to fly straight. In my case, the stab was warped and the wing incidence was off. Once all of that was taken care off, it turned into decent plane. If anything, it taught me the importance of making sure that things were straight as well as trimming. In the process, the plane lost 1/2 lb (new gear, no nose weight, no receiver pack, new spiner). It started at 6 lbs, and with that little wing it was a lot of "fun" to fly. I am certain that the Angel will be a lot easier.

My intended set up for the Angel will be:

AXI 4120/18
14x10 or 14x12 APC-E
5S1P 3700 mah Rhinos
70 amp Jeti Opto-plus controller
Castle BEC
Hitec MG 225 on the wings
DS821 for the rudder and elevator

My set up is probably modest, it is good for about 800-850 watts, but it used to fly a Morris Hobbies Balsa Nova quite well, in-spite of its 6 lbs weight. With the Balsa Nova, I used to be able to do the square loop required in the intermediate schedule without running out of steam. We will see, I can always upgrade to a 4130/16 that I also own.

Teo

Teo

I use a 4130/16 in mine on 6S its the minimum I would use for schedule work, it needs it for the verticle.

Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the advise. By any chance do you remember how many watts you are running and what prop?

Based on what I have read so far, I am guessing that the AUW will come in in the low 90's oz range if using my motor and battery of choice. I think that the plane will have better performance than the Balsa Nova which I was quite a happy with. Now am I debating if maybe I should buy a new motor, since the 4130/16 will probably be going into the Fliton Extra 330S (that plane will be heavier).

It looks like the 4120 will fit the model if I use short stand off so I am really tempted to give it a try. If it does not work, I can always buy the recommended motor.

Thanks,

Teo

Teo

Off hand I can't remember the Watts, but I am using a 70amp ESC and have never had a cut out, so below that, I use a 16 x 10 APC Electric prop, the only other prop I have tried is a 17 x 10 cut down to 16 to give a broader tip, this is better for calm days as it slows the airframe better on down lines.

One other thing is I use 6S 4350Mah LiPo's so the airframe is slightly heavier than if you where using lighter LiPo's, I find it holds its line better at a higher wing loading, of course this is all just my opinion and I am sure others will have different views.

Mike

Hey Teo....
My Angel has the Axi 4130/16, 80amp CC ESC, 16x10APC. I'm planning on 6s. After we get through winter here I'll be ordering the batteries for it. I'm thinking of batteries somewhere in the mid to upper 4000 range. Maybe even 5000. I have some 5000's and would like to do some flight testing before I make my decision. I'm thinking on the same lines as Mike that if the wing load is jacked up a little she will hold positions better.
I can't think of any thing to tell you that hasn't been discussed already. However, If you need help just give a shout.
Any way good luck with the build.

Dave

Teo ... I used the 4120/18 with 5S on the Angel when I first got her, performance on verticals is only so so ... Also, yes you need stand offs of about say 10mm-15mm. Also, the radial mounting pattern is narrower than what was made for the Hacker, dremel out the AXI radial mount a little. Here is a pic of my previous set up. Gonna most probably get another in April ... the yellow one this time.

Hello guys,

Thanks for the advice. I did notice that the mounting pattern for the AXI is a little bigger than that for the Hacker, so I was going to ream out the holes on the AXI moung slightly in order to get everything to fit. I do not want to alter the plane at all in case I need to switch motors.

tIANcI: Do you recall how tall your so-so vertical with the 4120 was? Also, I was wondering what prop you were using at the time. I ran the numbers again last night and they seemed O.K. If need be, I can go to a 15x10 prop on 5 cells and not blow the motor or controller. My intent was to use a 14x10 initially.

I do agree that for its size, the airframe is quite light. It is quite a bit bigger than the Groovy, but will only be slightly heavier. The Groovy does handle the wind reasonably well. I suspect that the Angel will get bumped around a little. Is keeping it at 6 lbs or less too light for the plane? If that is the case, maybe I should just switch to the 4130 and move on...

Thanks for the tips,

Teo

Teo ... I think might have been a 14x7, maybe its me not pulling enough amps. Perhaps with a 14x10 she will have more bite. I settled on the Hyperion 4025-15, that was spinning a 16x10 and can handle 16x12 too. On the 16x10 she was nice, I can pull nice big loops. I am sure with the 4130/16, 6S and 16x10 she will be amazing. 3D alley!

The motorcalc says about 1KW for your 4120/18 on 5S and 15x10. Should be enough for freestyle flying. My Ms Wind 50 on 5S is only pulling 900W with 120 oz thrust on the DualSky motor calc, that is enough for her to pull KE loops. Let me know how she flies on the 4120/18, I may use the same motor for my next Angel.

As for weight, the Angel is nicer to fly pattern with some weight. If you were to go 6S and 3,300 packs she will get bumped about a little if its windy. Also, at the top of a loop or a Cuban, if you do not keep the throttle up a bit, she will just hang at the top ...

Remember to reinforce the battery tray if you are flying hard or with bigger packs. It no fun seeing the battery dangling outside the fuse, its way too nose heavy to recover!

tIANcI:

Now it makes sense. The 14x7 prop probably underpitched the motor. The Balsa Nova had a very thick wing which made it a draggy plane: you could keep increasing the power but it would not fly appreciably faster. In the end, I settled on a 14x8.5 which was just about right: I could fly the sportsman routine at an almost constant speed and it had enough vertical for a nice stall turn. With the 14x10, the speed went up a little and I had to use the throttle a little more, but the vertical also got taller. I an guessing in the range of 300 ft (~100m). With that, I had time to make corrections on the way up as well as on the way down. I would expect the Angel to behave similarly.

I will start working on the plane shortly and I will run the motor/prop/battery combination through the wattmeter just to check that my memory is correct.

Once again, thanks for the info.

Teo

Teo ... I am itching to pick up the Angel from the LHS, really itching for it since I have all the other gear. Aaaarrggghhhh ... can start a Sebart fleet.

I am trying to get hold of a yellow Angel in the UK so I can have an IC version as well as the Electric, just so I can get some longer flight times.

Mike

Mike ... I think the yellow one looks hot. Wonder how its like in the air. Its hard to see the wings level on my Ms Wind.

Ian

I know what you mean, I have a Composite Edge that is all yellow, until I put some coloured stripes on the underside of the wings it was extreamly difficult to see, all I need to do now is sort out the ground handling of the thing, blip the throttle and it turns sharp left I am thinking of putting a gyro on the tail for the ground run and switch it off for flight.

Mike

Mike ...yeah that 50cc one? I seen that fly. Hmmm ... I think I will stick with the Red/Green is already easy to see ... my Ms Wind is the only Seb that I have in Red/Blue ... am unsire if its the colour scheme or the way the colour trims are laid out on the plane and it being a bipe.

Anyways, I got the Rimfire 5055-500 and will try it out on 5S to see how well that motor performs.

Ian

My Angel is the red white and blue one and I don't seem to have an orientation problem with it, strange that the difference between blue and green could make a difference.

Mike