The Tech-Aero PLR5-DR2 dual redundant regulator weighs 1.4 oz. Each regulator board is 1 3/4" x 1". You can mount them separately or sandwich them one above the other, provided you use a little foam padding between them for protection.

Failsafe switching describes the fact that if the switch contacts were to fail, the regulator would stay on. You can remove the switch entirely and the regulator will remain on. www.tech-aero.net

Keith:

Thanks for your input. Yes, I noticed that the 180 degree movement back and forth seems to work best: better than cranking with the starter, though the latter method also works but seems to be less predictable. The first time I started it, just cranking the engine over seemed to steadily suck in the fuel; the second time around, it was more difficult. I'll use the 180 degree method going forward.

BTW - nice numbers. It really is a great engine. Can't understand why on earth Yamada doesn't just sell it as a CDI directly!

Atul

Ryan:

Thanks for your note. Yes, I've got a switch on it and I always ensure the switch is off. In fact, on the bench I disconnect the battery while I get fuel into the injector. The "crank over" method you describe does work but it's timing is unpredictable. I noticed that the 180 degree method used by Keith (UKPatternFlyer) seems to be a little more predictable in getting the fuel up the line. Anyhow, one of them should work at any rate!

Thanks,

Atul

Because there are so many 1.70's out there in the world, it makes sense to offer a kit so people don't have to buy an entirely new motor.

Keith, I will try your method of priming the engine, I have always just spun it over. It takes about 10 seconds to do and has worked well, but it sounds as your priming method is more predictable.

I can also vouch for Ed on here, his regulators are awesome! Ed made me one, and it's very high quality, and very light. Ed also knows his stuff when it comes to electronics and that was something else that made me feel a lot more comfortable with my decision to buy his product. Ed called me and I spent about 30 minutes or more on the phone with him before I got my regulator and he told me anything and everything pertinent to the regulators and how electronics work specifically for our pattern applications. I can not reccomend him highly enough, and I definitely will be a repeat customer!

Bill,
What AMA document is that in? That is a direct quote from the IMAA safety code, including the paragraph numbers, but I can't find any AMA document that says that. I don't doubt you, but I'd like to know the AMA reference document.

I agree it makes common sense.

Thanks.

Hey Jon,..here is the link I found with the Yahoo search engine. The info. I posted earlier today. I know it say's the IMAA Safety Code but it also says in conjunction with the AMA and vise-versa. I'm not trying to open a can of worms here,....just info. to pass on. I will be using a seperate switch,..etc... if weight allows.


[PDF] IMAA SAFETY CODE
23k - Adobe PDF - View as html
SECTION 5.0: EMERGENCY ENGINE SHUT OFF (Kill Switch) ... 7.2 The Academy of Model Aeronautics, in conjunction with IMAA has developed an Experimental ...http://www.piedmontaeromodelers.com/...safteycode.pdf


Regards,

Bill Holsten

Talked to my Dad tonite, as he is on the AMA Safety Committee. He said there is no requirement, only a suggestion. I agree it is a very good idea, from a safety standpoint.

I have talked to multiple people that are running this setup straight through the RX with no problems on 2.4. I'm setting mine up that way. I have the Tech Aero dual regulator and dual batteries. Fail safe is set to kill the engine by pulling the trim all the way back. Also if the batteries get low the engine will start to miss and die before the RX has problems. More than anything, I don't want a second switching hanging out of my pattern plane. Thought about putting a second switch and just leaving it in the fuse, but that is just one more thing to fail. Bill Cunningham and others are running it straight through the RX. I think this is a totally different animal than a big glow from a safety stand point.

Also, my old 1.40RX would start WITHOUT a glowplug driver immediately after you landed and the engine was still warm. I actually had two of them that would do it.

Arch

I personally don't have a problem with iteither way,...It was just a "brain tickler" for awareness in reference to safety (I had a ST-2500 that would do that all the time,..makes you say bad words when it happens,..LOL).

On my Airtronics Stylus I used, I had the throttle saftey programmed if the throttle was at full open the plane (receiver) would not engage until the throttle position was lowered to the idle position,...good safety feature. I have no idea if my 9Zap will do it or not?

I know the current set-up being used is working very well on 2.4,...what about 72mhz?



Bill

Ryan,

I guess the CDI Kit makes sense. However, shipping the full engine is also sensible. I guess Yamada will do it soon.

About Ed's regulators: what's Ed's contact information. I'd like to get his regulators as well? Do let me know.

Thanks,

Atul

Bill,

I would not use directly into the receiver method on 72mhz. I think you are asking for trouble.

Atul,

You can reach Ed from the website at http://www.tech-aero.net/

They are great regulators. I'm running the dual reg setup in my pattern bird.

Arch

Hello

It seams like some have problems with connections when using the CDI installations.
I have not flown the CDI yet and have some questions before I dare get it in the air.

Wondering of I need to have 2 seperate systems, one for the ignition and one for receiver/servos???

I saw this reciever where I can connect two cells, li-pol or Ni-cd.
Is that possible solution for me with Spectrum DSM 2 ??

Thanks in advance

http://www.toddsmodels.com/SPMAR9100.../spmar9100.htm

Arch:

Thanks for the reference to Tech Aero. Their regulators look really cool. Very nice instructions and manuals as well!

atul

Gents,
my concern about connecting the CDI directly to the receiver (or for that matter, the receivers battery, makes no difference), was not only from a point of "RF interference" view, it's logical that the problem of RF interference would be (potentially) worse on 72 and 35 MHz than on 2.4 GHz, what I'm more concerned about is the "beefy" positive AND negative spikes on the supply wires (which the receiver also sees).

IF your setup passes the ground range checks (which they might do without problems), there could be a chance that the receiver eventually will be "killed" by the severe spikes on the power supply wires.

I bet that if you ask the producer of the receiver you use if it is ok that there are +/- 20V (and more) spikes on the supply wire, they will yell at you: "NO WAY!"

It very well might be that the setup works ok for xx number of flights (and range testes ok), but that the receiver eventually "gives up" on the spikes, and dies (together with your nice plane....)

So, please be carefull !

The picture below is a snapshot of the supplywires at the receiver, this was shot when engine was not at full RPM, the spikes grew to approx +/- 20V when running full throttle (didn't save the picture then...), I didn't grab a picture of where you can see the width of the spikes (it got dark )

Well,...there is always a potential for over tasking componets,...I've done it. You bring up a good point,...which I alluded to in my ealier post. There are no known numbers to draw from. My years of flying giant sacle aerobatic planes on the older 72 mhz receivers would handle around 30-40 amps(Futaba in my case, if I remember correctly) but the problem is where do you reach the point of diminishing returns,...componenents (filters, etc).

The next larger question is,..where do you feel comfortable with your set-up? If you have to second guess it constantly you will think about while you fly. The current method being used with the 2.4 stuff seems to be working just fine. Bill Cunningham is a very experienced, very knowledgable and extreamely well known pilot, has it working like a cats meow and he knows more than I do!

I agree,..how long of longeveity does the main system hold up for? Answer: So far so good,..............to many perameters to what if. The CDI has been test by a bunch of pilots over here in the USA and I' sure overseas,..mostly with no issues.

For me,..if I can afford the additional weight I will run seperate systems, because I am use to it with the big stuff,..I don't have to worry. If I can't,......well I will test it,...follow the results very closely after each flight and draw my own conclussions. And use the reccomendations from those who have,...with great results.


That's my two cents anyway,..for what it's worth.


Bill Holsten

I don't have a CDI motor and probably never will, but to the issue of RF noise and spikes, I can speak from industrial experience. Each component in the circuit with these spikes is seeing them every time they happen.

The best analogy I've heard for RFI degrading electronics is: I can poke you with a pin and you say ouch and move on. I poke you again same result..no pin ***** is gonna kill you right? Now I poke you with a pin billions of times. what happens?...you could easily die....

Same with RFI, the effect is cumulative and it's only a matter of time. Each spike stresses components unitil the weakest component gives up.

Again from industrial experience, we can never predict the effects of RFI on any particular system or component with certainty, and as a result must adopt the "best odds" approach to system design to maximize our average time to failure. You will either need to overdesign the components to ensure that they last for the intended life span (which I doubt any RX manufacturer is doing) or provide isolation. In this case, it would seem that isolation looks pretty good.

Richard

Editted-Apparently I the word I picked in place of "poke" is not acceptable in any context...

Carsten,

Did you perform your test with the engine on a test stand or in an airplane?

It would be very educational to look at the voltage of the rx with servos idle, servos all moving as in during a snap and the voltage taken when the servos have vibration applied to them as they are during normal flight. (with and without ignition)

This information would very helpful, that being said, hundreds of flights have been flown with the CDI pluged directly into a Futaba Fasst RX 6014, never a hold or glitch, three different airframes and three different igntion modules.

No doubt that the safest would be a separate battery and switch.

Bill

Bill, good point!

The test was done on a test stand as Torben wanted to be sure before mounting anything in his planes.
You are correct that there also can be an effect from the servos, I will try and repeat the measurement in a seperate plane without the CDI (I'll test it in one of my jets), and see if the servos can mimic the measurements already done

Hi Carsten,

When I first read your comments I wondered if the voltage spikes could also be coming from the servos. According to Emcotec this can be a problem with the new powerful digital servos we are running (they call it the dynamo effect), they actually have a small filter capacitor available to plug directly into the receiver that should cure this... Might be an easy fix, that is lighter than an additional ignition battery.

[link=http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php?shop=k_emcotec_e&SessionId=&a=article&Pr odNr=A18000]http://shop.rc-electronic.com/e-vendo.php?shop=k_emcotec_e&SessionId=&a=article&Pr odNr=A18000[/link]

By the way, if you do the test with the servos, maybe it would be better to use a model that vibrates a little more than a jet. My best guess is that the dynamo effect (or whatever we call it ) is most pronounced when the control surfaces vibrate, and this is probably not as pronounced on a smooth jet as with a regular glow-plug engine.

The spikes look like noise induced by the test set-up. If you are not probing directly you'll need to keep the wires to the scope probe down to a minimum...no more than an inch or two.

Colin.

Yes remove the ground lead from the scope probe and use a very short piece of wire attached to the ground ring on the probe and tied directly to the ground plane. Ideally, it shoud be soldered to it.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

I really find it hard to believe that the spikes are something that would affect the receiver. Over in Japan YS and Futaba work very closely with each other because of Naruke. The Japanese team are running the CDI directly into the receiver. I would think if this was a serious problem they wouldn't be doing it as closely as they work with each other.

I did also confirm today that the ignition is designed to be run from 4.8-6V. A non regulated 5 cell NiCD or NiMH will work, but nothing any higher than that. They do NOT recommend non regulated LiPo or Li-Ion packs.

Arch

Ryan:

I am in Tokyo, Japan today (April 15th) and I walked into a hobby shop. Guess what: YS just released the "official" YS DZ 170 CDI here in Japan. This version has the CDI preinstalled - no need to purchase the engine and CDI kit separately.

I bought one: the price here in Tokyo is 85,680 Yen, which equates to about $850 at today's rates. The engine *includes* a full YS Mount as well. My previous engine cost be $700 (engine) + $240 (CDI Kit). So, at $850, its a deal since the YS 170 mount is itself about $75 if purchased separately.

I had a Japanese buddy read and translate the instructions from the manual informally: YS recommends "0-30% nitro". I.e. the OFFICIAL word is that the engine will run on Zero Nitro, which should make it great even for non-pattern users (such as I, though I soon hope to be a pattern flyer as well). YS recommends 5% to 25% oil - a wide range.

Based on fuel costs alone, the DZ 170 CDI is a deal: one can make up the price against a YS110S over 150 to 200 flights. At a normal 6 flights every 2 days, that's a deal.

If anyone on this forum wishes, I can post the details of the shop I got the engine from. They seemed to have 4 more in stock. I'm sure they will ship to the U.S. though I have not checked. I will check tomorrow anyhow and keep all of you posted.

Just to be sure, I got 5 spare plugs as well: expensive here in Tokyo - about $16/plug (!).

atul

Atul,

I knew they were going to release CDI motors, but the reason I've been told they released kits first was so that people didn't have to buy an entirely new motor. I apologize for an confusion.

Hi Atul

Where did you buy it? Not many shops sell outside of Japan.

Gerrie