Matt,

Anthony R alerted me to the fact that the Oasis event has been canceled, so I won't get the see the new plane fly there. However, I am really committed to getting some very nice photos, so please let me know when you're going to maiden and I will make every effort to be there. I used to photograph things for a living, so I'm a much better photographer than I am an aerobatic pilot!

This weekend looks not so good, with the storm named Earl causing some commotion.

I'm looking to see if we can still have a get together that weekend at another field in our area. Something where we could do some flying/coaching sessions.

Definitely....This weekend and next are out for me. I am about halfway done with sealing of pin striping and graphics. Fuse and tail feathers have been sealed. Wings next. I'll do my best to make it come out as I pictured it in my mind. It's been 4 years with several starts and stops, so I am soooo ready to move on to something new.

Sometime after mid Sept for the maiden. I won't maiden it though until after the photo shoot. And NO, I am not superstitious. It'll be fine

BTW- just received my old engine from Todd. Bearings replaced and he installed the new prop drive washer but without the pins. Evidently I've been running the engine a little rich.... carbon build up. He suggested leaner top end but richer low end. Wish these Walbros came in 3 needle version

That would be very attractive... a relaxed one-day/evening get-together.

Matt, thanks for coordinating your maiden schedule.

We have a lot of nice days remaining through the fall season. I think we can do justice to all your hard work.

It is strange that I have so much time on the plane and engine, it was not planned. I have five other planes, all smaller and glow powered, but I can't bring myself to get them out. I keep waiting for the "new" to wear off, but this one is so much fun. I love the fact that I can start the engine with only two prop flips. I got worried last week because it took five. It was my fault, I had the throttle set too low. The plane has over 300 flights on it from a grass (with some dirt) field and it is getting pretty beat up looking. I may need to recover it next year if I don't crash it first.

I will keep an eye on the prop play and see if it gets worse as I get more time on the engine.

Steve,

I know what you mean!

I briefly considered taking my 50cc AW Yak to the field yesterday, but decided again to take the Focus/SAP. Getting to the point that I fly only a small sport plane and a Cularis glider at my local (small!) field, or the Focus at one of the larger fields.

One thing I am doing for SAP #2 is keeping better records. Nothing fancy, but I found a little memo app for the Droid to write down the "mileage".... date, number of flights per day and total flights, tuning notes, etc. For some reason I never was disciplined about writing this stuff down in a notebook, so I'll see how this works out. Thus far I have 21 flights with an average flight time of about 10 minutes.

Matt,

Perhaps I too had been running SAP #1 a bit too rich.

I leaned out the low end of #2 yesterday and it ran a lot smoother through the transition and got rid of the intermittent midrange burble with a better idle. The engine did not sag on uplines so it was not too lean, and at the end of the day the exhaust residue was the cleanest I have ever seen it.

Some information you passed along that was new to me is going to be of great help. I did not realize that the L needle controls the fuel mix through the vast majority of the RPM range with the H needle only for the upper end, roughly above 7500 RPM. I assumed it was exactly the reverse, similar to a glow carb.

Oy, we learn something new every day!![sm=teeth_smile.gif]

No word yet from Todd about #1, however also no rush as the season is winding down and I still have a plane to fly.

Newbie to pattern here.  Picked up a softcover by Dave Patrick and got interested in pattern.  Picked up a Sequel and it is now my baby.  Anyway, is the SAP too much for this plane?  I also have an OS 1.6.  Looks like either of these will be a snug fit.  What do ya all think?<div>Thanks, Bob</div>

Ideally, you want about a 4 1/2" wide firewall minimum (5" preferred) to fit the soft mount. You might shoe-horn it in but it will be tough for a seasoned veteran of pattern builds. A nooby might find it impossible.

Powerwise, the 180 can always be throttled back, or don't bother with the pipe. The muffler will work fine, but then again, you still have the fit problem

I suggest you stay with something like an OS120 and the smaller soft mount

Thanks for the info and the fast reponse.  Bob

How is the power of this engine compared to a OS 140Rx. Flying a Focus II and am intereted in going this way if it is enough power. Thanks

From seeing Matt and Bob's fly earlier this year, it definitely has more than a 1.40RX. Probably very similar to an OS 1.60 on a pipe. Bob is actually flying a Focus II with his and his has NO power problems. I was as skeptical as anyone when this thread started, but after watching Matt and Bob's fly earlier this year, I'm convinced. It is not as much power as the top electric setups, nor the YS 1.70DZ setup, but certainly adequate for anything up to and including Masters. Matt certainly had no power problems flying Masters with his.

Arch

Referring to a Sequel:  Is there a possibility of using a slightly smaller Hyde mount?  Or maybe another brand that would be a good vibration isolator. (talking about the SAP or the 160).  Bob</p>

The SAP 180 is physically about the size of the OS 160...just a slightly larger cylinder. The spark plug will need a recess hole.

The soft mount must be different than the typical Hyde for standard glow stuff. The SAP 180 is rear mounted on stand offs..it has no mounting lugs on the sides of the case.

Please make sure you study the photos we have included much earlier in this thread to fully understand what you may be getting. And as questions arise, we will help you through them

Archie is right but it isn't so much top end power issue. The SAP has power galore on the top side.

In Masters and F3A schedules we use full throttle sparingly. Electrics and YS170 have better shaped power curves at mid throttle positions. Electrics are particularly better suited to Pattern needs since one may do some customizing at mid throttle positions. Wet power set-ups are not as simple to set-up that way. The YS170 has some very nice handling capability at mid throttle also.

The SAP offers good mid thorttle response but not as good as some electrics or the YS170. It requires more lead to transition from horizontal to vertical flight, for example

The SAP180 may be one of the best alternatives in terms of reliability, field manners and overall cost to operate, particularly for the guys who need to learn to fly pattern and must fly a lot. This has been discussed before in this thread

I havea currently retired Sequel Nomex.I can check on the fit for the SAP 180 but the fuse / cowl up front is way smaller than the Focus II. The firewall if not already installed couldpossibly bemoved back. Mineflew with a YS 120 SC. Even flew it somewith the TT 1.20 RE. The balance on the sequal like other well designed modelsiscritical to how it reacts to control inputs. When balanced properly, I have no mixes period. Pretty neet to fly hugh flat circles with rudder only and not have totouch a thing unless you turn too hard. Knife edge corner to corner and never touch anything but rudder unless you want. The thing almost corrects for wind tracking automatically if you pick the right speed. Notice I said speed and not velocity.A scalar and vector, respectively.- MTK understands. Makes me want to resurrect it the plane. Just needs TLC on the engine and covering. YS for me = Pain. Lots of power when working and usually didn't have trouble but when its off its off. Noin between......Thats why I triedthe OS 1.60 and now moving to the SAP 1.80. Just need time to finish my Focus with SAP. Missed a whole season. Not really...Its Florida. Cooler weather is coming soon to a flying field near you. Maybe more importantly is lower relative humidity.

.

Just keep the AUW to 10.5 lbs or less and you will be happy. The engine is light enough to do this, although with the Focus attention must be paid at every step to use lighter weight components than the stock stuff supplied with the model.

Early in the thread there are quite a few posts detailing the mods I did to my Focus to incorporate the soft mount and the ES pipe. Biggest thing is you have to scrap the stock FG pipe tunnel and make a bigger and lighter one with balsa sheeting. This is on page 12, if I recall correctly.

Also, [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9794144]Post #1071[/link] contains a very detailed "cookbook" of items needed - complete with links - in order to get very good pattern performance with the SAP 180.

CAPS LOCKED TO MAKE A POINT!

FINALLY HAVE AESTHESIS CLEAR COATED....HOORAH!!! JUST FINISHED AN HOUR AGO.

Hopefully it will be cured enough ny tomorrow to complete hinging and do a quick assembly a take a couple snaps.
I should have the plane flying next weekend

Congrats on getting past the last hurdle!

I will make it a priority next weekend to meet up and do a photo shoot.

I'll be tipping a gin & tonic soon in your honor.

Yesterday I started assembling the balsa sheeting for the Pentathlon's wings. The skins are now assembled and they came out pretty nicely. I have an ACP vac bag set-up and am going to give it a go. I have read everything I can get my hands on and think I can manage it. Gotta learn how to do it some time... now is as good as any.

Bob,

Thanks.

BTW- vacuum bagging isn't magic requiring some type of phoophoo dust to make it work. Just use good common sense and don't blind the vacuum path. I use and recommend paper towels as breather stock. Do not omit breather on both top and bottom surface of a panel. Paper towels are so cheap, I use as much as necessary to cover every sq inch of a panel. Simply tape it down to the wood

Once you get a panel done you'll wonder why it took so long to try the technique. If you hit a snag, call me

Matt,

Right now next Saturday looks good for me, if that works for you for the maiden and photo shoot. Please do post a couple of photos so we can appreciate the shiny coat on the new ship.

Just one question on the wing skins... In the Terry Brox tutorial he uses carbon mat under the sheeting, which is not shown in the drawings and photos Mark Hunt supplies with the Pentathlon (just the CF strip tape for spanwise reinforcement). Most of the other foam core wing discussions/tutorials do not mention the CF mat so I am assuming it is optional. I hope this is correct!

BTW, after a few e-mails back and forth with Todd concerning the front bearing issue, I decided to switch to the hard mount for SAP #2. Okay, it will take quite a while (if ever!) to find out if the bearing issue might be related to the soft mount, but it is significant that it is unique to us. Main thing I want to do is to get some flying time with the hard mounting to see if it is feasible, before I get too far into the Pentathlon build.

I don't know if you know Walt Erickson, but he is flying an Aquila with a hard-mounted SAP with the stock Pitts muffler with the tone inserts. Vibration is not bad at all, nor is noise.

Carbon mat is optional. However it is worth consideration because of the stiffness it gives. I've used the 0.2 oz variety for years under skins. Ailerons come out particularly stiff. BUT, the 0.2 oz mat imparts little strength per se'....just stiffness. Do not use the 0.5 oz stock. Much too thick and will absorb way too much epoxy. Wings will weigh several ozs more than they should.

BTW if you used contest grade balsa, the skins should weigh around 40-44 grams each.

Since you will finish in plastic film, definitely use carbon strip under the skin. Sand a groove into the foam the width of the strip as follows: For .007" thick strip, take a 1/2" thick balsa block about 1" wide, and glue a strip of sandpaper the width of your carbon strip on one side of the block. Some 150 grit will produce just about a perfect depth. Use a straightt edge. Works great, try it

Matt,

Thanks for the tips.

After trimming and sanding my panels weigh 41.6, 41.8, 35.6(!), and 41.1 grams, so the stuff supplied by Mark Hunt with the "pro" kit is definitely worthy of the project.

I know there are several different theories about gluing the sheeting together (or not gluing at all), but I decided to follow the suggestion of Clay at The Balsa Store and glue them with plain ol' Elmers White glue. Worked GREAT! Easy to apply using one of those little plastic applicators (that looks like a pipette with a squeeze bulb on the end), easy to wipe off excess with a paper towel and easy to sand. The panels all came out flat with zero buckling even before sanding.

In any event, weather is superb again (like yesterday, ugh!) and family obligations are met, so I am going to fly the hard-mounted SAP today for the first time.

Good!! Elmer's works fine...used it for years. In fact the only thing I probably have not tried is not gluing the sheets together. Expecting Pro Bond to foam up into the joints, in my mind, would be too much expectation. It works for some to which I say, Great!

I don't use Pro Bond...I'm not that fast in my setup of skins and foam. Points is, there are a couple options all resulting in good, strong and light wing panels.

I actually flew Temptress today. We had excellent conditions so it was great to be out and flying. The SAP was 1 flip starts all day. I flew at the New Milford field which is mostly large birds with honking DA150s. What a noise footprint difference between the extremely quiet piped SAP and the larger birds.