jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Glad to see that they are acknowledging the problem and taking steps to fix it!!!! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

bailey37

thanks paul.also been told that it the tx is switched on then switched off,then back on again within a split second,it will change the code in the tx to 0000000. it then has to be recoded. this information was passed on to me today,as per ripmax

bailey37

thanks paul.also been told that it the tx is switched on then switched off,then back on again within a split second,it will change the code in the tx to 0000000. it then has to be recoded. this information was passed on to me today,as per ripmax

pemiller

Gentlemen,

Hobbico (USA Futaba) and the AMA are suppose to publish a statement about the FASST 6EX issue on their websites today, 17JAN2008. I exchanged emails with Greg Hahn yesterday; he is the AMA Technical Director. He told me what is stated above. We'll see.

Paul

bailey37

paul do you have a link to the site, were it is being published thanks ian

pemiller

GrayUK (Paul),

RE: Per the Ripmax annoucement on their website,

"2) Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter. The system requires at least five (5) seconds boot up time prior to turning off the power to the transmitter."

What happens if you turn on then off the TX before the 5 second boot time?
This is a fairly open ended statement, ala GhostBusters: "Don't cross the beams!"

Paul

pemiller

Ian,

I poked around and didn't find it yet. Once I do, I'll post it. If I don't, I contact Greg and ask him "What's up?"

Paul

GrayUK

With regard to the 5 second issue.

I am told the actual problem was this.

1) On the 6 EX, it was discovered that if you turned the tx on and then turned it off 0.5 second later (+-20ms) the GUID could be reset to zero. It is THAT critical, is has to be exactly that 40ms window on the 0.5 second mark. It would seem that it is very unlikely to happen in the field although it is possible. What seems to have happened is that at some point in the auto testing of the TX units after they have been programmed with the GUID, there are power cycles in the test. This power cycle was close to the time window, as such it could (on occasion) wipe the pre-programmed GUID. Futaba have changed this to prevent it happening again.
2) The same applies to the 7 C 2,4 and the 7 Module but the time is 2 seconds (+-20ms).

This info is reliable but it is second hand and as such is only what I believe to be the case.
This is why Futaba have recommended a minimum cycle time of 5 seconds to ensure this cannot happen.
As far as the flat battery issue is concerned I am informed that all tests have failed to duplicate this fault, the feeling is that is is related to the above in some way.

I am sure Futaba will continue to tighten up on this problem to ensure no re-occurrence.

Paul Gray

bailey37

lets hope it gets sorted soon regards all ian

rmh

I really hope your info is not correct--(even tho I don't use Futaba)
Any design, which would permit operator inputs to setup a "failed to UNSAFE" condition is simply - unacceptable-- I won't bore you with the reasons or court cases which explain why this is the case- but it is.
In this case
It must be assumed that the user may accidently or idly , switch the power on/off in ANY random fashion.
The very first machine control circuit I redesigned - had operator controls which -if the operator held ON for more than two seconds - caused a repeat command -- the designer was adamant that the operators simply should not hold the buttons - and any problems which occured -were of course, the operators fault .
The darn prototyes were actually in the field -then instantly the problem popped up. This was 40 years ago - since then the legal beagles have laid in wait for similar goof ups .
On more familiar points:
at one time automatic transmission equipped cars in the US had shift patterns of
PNDLR as well as PRNDL. The unwary user could go the incorrect direction !
Some manual 4 speed shift ( 1970's Datsun) had reverse where 1st is now positioned - another disaster ready to happen -and it did.

mickey finn

Important Notification - Futaba 6EX and TM-7


Futaba 6EX and TM-7 Important Notification

This notification affects only owners of the Futaba TM-7 module and 6EX FASST systems. Each FASST transmitter contains a unique eight digit identification code, programmed at the factory to identify the respective transmitter and to allow a receiver to be paired only to that radio's signal. Recently we have learned that a very small number of the TM-7 modules, and 6EX FASST systems were incorrectly coded with a common code number during the manufacturing process. These units were subsequently sold prior to our awareness of the situation.

If two or more units, utilizing this common identification code, were to be in use simultaneously, they may cause interference with one another. Please note: Units which utilize the correct identification code will not be affected by these units.

We're extremely confident that this is not a widespread problem, however, to give you peace of mind that your system is not affected, we will soon be setting up test points at participating model shops throughout the country where you will be able to go to determine -- within a matter of seconds -- whether or not your transmitter is affected, at no charge to you. (We anticipate that all shops will have been advised and that this testing system will be starting in participating shops very shortly, so please contact your local shop to arrange testing.)

Precautionary Measures and Information

1) As with all radio control equipment, we strongly suggest that you pre-flight your aircraft thoroughly prior to flying. When flying at a location with other FASST owners, particularly prior to all units having been checked, we suggest that prior to flying all pilots briefly activate their systems simultaneously to check for any interaction between units. If any interactions should occur, do NOT fly. Please return the unit to the Ripmax Futaba Service Centre immediately.

2) Each time that your transmitter is turned on, it is imperative that you allow the FASST system an adequate amount of time to thoroughly boot-up completely before shutting down the transmitter. The system requires at least five (5) seconds boot up time prior to turning off the power to the transmitter.

3) If the transmitter and receiver have lost their binding which required them to be re-linked, we recommend returning them to the Ripmax Futaba Service Centre for analysis. This is not expected behaviour and should be investigated accordingly.

Turk1

That statement, here.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6921377/tm.htm By Futaba

bradpaul

Here is the "Official" Anouncement by KRYSTA for Futaba USA:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803207

I hope this is just the initial phase of the problem resolution, as it requires programming changes in the TX to eliminate the "switch bounce" zero GUID reset. I would think that Futaba would need to have a way to identify a radio that has been fixed, perhaps some sort of stricker, and new corrected inventory would also need the sticker.

I would imagine the AMA and contest CD's will have to implement some sort of impound control on all non upgraded transmitters.

Now will TOWER still be selling FAAST units today even with this problem?

Brad

xed

Well if rapid flipping of the switch has even a remote chance of causing this problem in the field, it is guaranteed to happen. If Futaba does not issue a product recall soon for these transmitters (I don't own any 2.4GHz system presently so I have no axe to grind), they are going to lose a lot of credibility with me and I hope others will feel the same.

Its nice to see that they are advising people of a potential problem but they should be actively contacting owners or hobby shops, AMA and MAAC, and advising them to have all units sent in for verification and repair (if a fix is available) ASAP.

So much for 15-years of experience in 2.4GHz technology...

DougV

At least Futaba acknowledges that there are issues!

Not like the others!

ddaveb

I own a 6ex tx 7 a 7ch module & so I have contacted the nearest Ripmax model shop they have told me that they can only test radios purchased from them which means returning to Inwoods where I bought them this is anoying why should I pay for postage?. The local shop said they are not beenig paid to do this test why should they?( The test is being done with a rx programmed to zeros so if your tx operates it it's faulty) come on futaba/Ripmax pay the local shop so we can get it done locally.

pilotpete2

Good point
It's been roughly 12 days since the first report of the problem, as of today Krysta has issued a statement and they are implementing a plan to identify the affected units and correct the problem.
Anyone remember the Douglas DC-10 cargo door debacle, as I remember at least three incidents of cargo doors blowing off in flight, the first on a certification flight and it was given certification, another incident was with Air Canada and I believe a flight attendant was sucked out. It was only when a fully loaded plane leaving Paris crashed with total loss of life was something done.
Futaba is taking this very seriously.
Regards,
Pete

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I suggest you find a better hobby shop! The "test" takes a few minutes at the most. It's a matter of good customer service for any decent shop and any decent retailer wouldn't protest to something so simple.
In the mean time you can be browsing their goods for things to buy while you are there. An opportunity for them to sell!

pilotpete2

Could you explain exactly what this problem has to with 2.4Ghz technology
This is an electronics and/or manufacturing issue, other than this issue, which will be dealt with, you don't seem to hear complaints of lockouts from FASST users
Pete

altavillan

My Feedback: (1)

I bought a second reciever 607 when I bought the 7C 2.4 transmiter. It has not been bound. Can I use it to check my transmiters broadcast for possible problems? I'm about 80 miles from a hobby shop.

Guess it doesn't really matter, If someone shows up with another 7C and it's out of whack and I don't catch it before he turns it on it's splat city baby!

Flying Geezer

My Feedback: (14)

IF? The problem is decoding caused by switch bounce, the problem can be resolved by one or two simple lines of code following the programs recognition of the switch being thrown.

Switches commonly have more and more bounce as they wear, so if there is a switch bounce problem now, it will only get worse over time. Additional components to eliminate/reduce switch bounce is not foolproof. Code elimination of switch bounce can be virtually foolproof.

The radios that can download programing, 12Z, 12FG, 14MZ, MAY be protected by a new program download. Since I have a 12FG I hope this will be done.

All I have stated in this post depends on the problem being switch bounce.

Teachu2

My Feedback: (133)

Yes - your new rx will perform the test. It does matter - if yours is OK, nobody can shoot you down. If yours is defective, another defective unit will shoot you down.

altavillan

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Teach.

bailey37

how are the model shops going to test them??

bailey37

will they have 2 rx units to test it with..both set to receive a none coded tx???