Be aware that virtually ALL EIII's had wheel covers made of sheet metal. Spoked wheels always look beautiful but having them on an EIII would not be horribly scale. You will see them on some of the earlier AI and AII variants though -- and I suppose you could also argue that "they were removed in the field for repair."

BTW, here's two threads I started; the first on making your own spoked wheels and the second comparing Flair and WB wheels.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Spok...2693952/tm.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_31.../anchor/tm.htm

Warning, the squiggles on the San Diego replica look HIDEOUS and are nothing like what you see in period photos! In fact it looks like they had some kid finger-painting on it. The squiggles need to be much denser and are also of a different, smaller, and more random shape. I did a lot of practicing on bits of scrap aluminum (definitely visit the Dollar Store nearest you) until I had a pattern that looked right. Some of my early experiments looked a bit too much like Arabic! Finally, I started to try to think like a factory worker who has to do as many as 10 of these each day and just sort of settled into a mindless routine of filling up all the cowl space with short bursts of squiggles (about 1-2 seconds each) with the electric eraser.

Feep, one more comment regarding the color scheme you used. Despite the use of red stripe scheme on hundreds of model EIII's over the year at least one very highly regarded WWI historian (and I guy I would definitely not want to argue with), Dan San Abbott feels that the stripe was actually "Bavarian Blue" (think "BMW blue") rather than red.

The argument centers on the fact that during this period the film in use was "orthochromatic" which means that it was much more sensitive to blue than reds and yellows such that red comes out looking almost black in B/W photos while blue is a lighter color -- in fact it might even come out lighter than the surrounding yellowish clear doped linen. And this is in fact what you see in photos of this aircraft: A light rather than dark black stripe.

How's that for a mind-bender!

Thanks for the info Don, I was looking for that spoked wheel site earlier this evening and coulden't find it. As far as E111s with spoked wheels showing, you are right except for Fok 210/15 sometimes refered to as "509" (it's work #). This plane was being flown to the front to enter service when the pilot became lost and landed it intact behind enemy lines. This aircraft has numerous pics with no wheel covers and in fact it was flown at Upavon with British markings and still no wheel covers.This is the very plane you missed at the science museum in London These tests at Upavon where mentioned in Sagitarius Rising by Cecil Lewis who flew with 56 squadron and was at Upavon when it was being evaluated.

I was aware of the effects of orthochromatic film years ago when a controversy arose over Rudolph Hecht's Pfalz D3. It was profiled in the early Profile Publicatins as having a yellow tail and yellow stipes on the fuselage but later, because of the b & w film controversy it is commonly show as having green stipes and tail.I was not aware that it affected other colors as well. Thanks again for your help ,Mike

Here's the link I found on the book, I sent a mail to him last night so will have to wait to see if it's still available.



http://www.collectors-edition.de/QAU/shippingrates.htm

Hera are the pics I was talking about Two oics show it right after capture and one show it in british markings.

Whoops!

O.K. you snuck that in while I was responding with whoops.

Interesting....kinda reminds me of wrong way corrigan but I think wrong way did it on purpose and I think his plane is still in a barn somewhere.....long story.

Interesting photos! I'm always surprised at how delicate and fragile the orginal EIII looks. They always look like they would put together out of toothpicks. Somehow our models always come out looking more substantial. Maybe that's because we end of using materials that are not to scale.

Feep, what is the source of the pages you posted?

I wonder how sturdy the Proctor kit is being made with maple dowels? Sure is a beauty. A fellow club member built one and sold it...said it was too heavy with the dowels.

I haven't seen the E111 from Prctor but I did see a D7 up close without covering and they look pretty sturdy.

Don the article I got those pictures from was in Cross and Cockade from 1981.

Your last 2 posts about how fragile the E111 is is what has always drawn me to WW1 aircraft. Imagine building one with scale dowels and then flying it with only marginal power and no reserve after you put 2 years of your time into detailing it.Yor friends at your field would say you were nuts! Now imagine you get in a real one and instead of risking 2 years of work you just risk your life. And then instead of just flying it you fly around in it while other people shoot at you. Amazing

Well I found the book on a cd and have ordered it. I know most if not all eindeckers were done in the antique finish but i'm thinking even though i'll add as much scale to mine as possible i may just do mine in white something like this just to be different. I'm not plannimg on entering it in any scale events so why not have something different at the field?

feep,
Meant to ask you, did you treat your covering with anything or leave it as is?

The only scale color options, that I'm aware of, for the EIII/AII are grey, dark green, and CDL (clear doped linen) which is best done with solartex antique if you want interior structure (and wood grain) to show or solartex linen if you don't. Of course you could also opt for a totally clear transparent covering as it seems the Germans experimented with one plane covered with celluloid. Good luck seeing that in the air though!

Because I painted my markings on with latex I needed to fuel proof with polycrylic/polyurethane.

If I were going to have a scale engine up front I would use the antique covering but since i'll be using a G26 i'm leaning toward the white.
I did see a picture somewhere of a model covered with clear but here's the real thing!

I just used super coverite, It comes in an antique linen color and I applied the markings by hand with latex house paint. No treatment otherwisw. If you get exhaust soot on it you can wipe it off with a little gas and I have had a few guys tell me that its starting to look pretty good with the natural weathering. I know you're using the grapics from SR but a few things I have found when painting markings which are masked off is that you still have to be carefull near the tape or your paint will bleed under the tape, If I am painting along a masked line I will use the paint sparingly. I also dab the brush along the line and when the brush is almost dry I will go along the edge. Lift your tape as soon as possible and peel it in towards the painted surface. Personally I think it looks more authentic done by hand. After all it is 1/4 scale and full scale ones were hand painted. I have a line of 1/24 scale WW1 kits and obviousely they have decals because brushmarks would only be noticable in extreams. however you do it , it will still look good when it's flying mike

I've always used super coverite and prefer it to other material. As for the paint bleeding under the tape I use trim tape and spray a light coat of clear along the edges of the tape to prevent bleeding before I apply my color. I generally brush on several coats of nitrate and then butyrate after covering but on a telemaster I built and covered with coverite I used polycrylic/polyurethane and for some reason the fabric felt gummy after flying? I was using 15% fuel and it shouldn't have affected it.

I had a call from Sal today at SR. I had ordered some items for my eindecker and something didn't look right to him on one item so he called to verify if what I ordered was correct. Turned out I was wrong and it was a small item that he could have looked past and shipped anyway but I'm glad he called. That's what I call good customer relations! Thanks Sal.

You fella's keep refering to the SR Eindecker as an EIII. The one I built and reviewed in R/C Report was the E-I from SR Batteries. Have they changed the kit?

Jim,
They have not changed the kit. I make reference to the E.III because that's all the information I've found. In looking at the book that I got with my kit there seems to be very little difference with the exception of some not so noticable changes between the E.I and the E.III. I'm still researching but if pipe reads this thread i'm sure he will straighten us all out on it. How about it pipe? I just got the book on a CD of the replica E.III in the San Diego museum to detail mine with. I don't get R/C report....what did you think of the kit and what did you power it with?

It was probably the easiest kit I ever put together. The manual was just fantastic with 310 photos and drawings. I powered mine with an ACTRO 40-6 electric with a 9s4p 8Amp Lipo battery. More power than needed.

Perhaps the most tell-tale distinguishing feature between the EI/EII and EIII was the shape of the cowl cheeks. On the the earlier models they look squarish but on the EIII they were given the curved tapering looks we've come to expect on an eindecker. The SR model has the curved cowl cheeks. Another different is that the EI and EII used the 7 cyclinder Uberursal rotary while the EIII used the slightly more poweful 9 cylinder. Oh and to off-set the weight of the larger engine, the rear of the fuse was lengthened by about a foot or so which gives the EIII a longer, sleeker look. This may have been the main reason for SR choosing the "E1" designation for their kit.

In the end though it doesn't matters much what they call it. The differences between this sports scale kit and the actual eindecker are greater than any minor differences between the EI/EII and EIII. It's still a great looking model though and ought to be tons of fun at the field.

Sorry Jim, the SR kit is still a Fok E l. But I have chosen to do mine up as an E lll. Considering the fact that it's standoff scale and the most important difference is the length of t
he fuselage and the wing area. I have more info on Elll. And who said you can not do an instruction manual with humor?
Don you're absolutly right ! They chose to do the E l because of the shorter length of the fuselage with transport considerations. I talked to the guys at SR about modifying it to an Elll and all the considerations for just adding about 3'' to the fuselage were simply not worth the effort. And that does not even take into consideration the increased wing area.

Of course the main reason that Fokker chose to lengthen the fuse (i.e. to counter-balance the larger engine) doesn't apply to our models where the longer tail just means we'll need to figure out some way to build the tail lighter or add weight up front.

It's a great looking kit anyway, so I wouldn't sweat the non-scale stuff. I've just about decided that I'm going to either buy another BUSA Eindecker 40 kit and build it as the sport scale model it is or make the parts myself here in Japan from the plans from my last kit. I might not even bother with a full-flying elevator or rudder.

Don, let me see if I understand you correctly. You're going to get a busa eindecker and build it sport scale right out of the box?!!
Seriously, have you evr been to www.aerodromemodels.com. ? They do some pretty interesting stuff,but it's electric!

It does seem unlikely, doesn't it.

But I've often missed having a Sunday flyer version of the eindecker, one I wouldn't mind at all flying into the ground. It's gotta be better than flying the Ugly Stik clone I currently take to the field. But who knows maybe these thoughts will disappear once I get my Legionaire up and flying (hopefully in about a month).