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New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

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New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Old 08-08-2005, 09:23 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Does anyone have experience with the hinge pockets? I like the idea of having a removable surface but only if I can control when it is removed!!

Ron
Old 08-19-2005, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I just bought those pockets the other day myself. I am doing my first install of the Robart hinges... and a little iffy on the install, but the model requires it due to the size; I just would not trust the CA on a 10 foot wingspan C-130!
Hinge pocket info anyone?
Bill R.
Old 09-03-2005, 12:35 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

robert says not to use ca on their hinges it makes them brittle.
Old 10-04-2005, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Believe it or not, white Carpenters glue works well with Robart hinges. After it dries it is virtually impossible to pull the hinge out without tearing out some of the material. In foam wings I use a 3/8" dowel, drilled for a tight fit for the Robart hinge, white glue it and insert into a predrilled hole in the foam. Any excess glue is simply cleaned off with an exacto knife after it dries. Where water is involved, epoxy will work well. Put some vaseline on the hinge area to keep it flexable and to prevent binding.

There are others systems, but this has worked well for me over the years.
Old 10-04-2005, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I use these hinges as well. I use a toothpick and spread a thin coat of Vaseline on the hinge knuckle. I then fill the hole with Aeropoxy or Hysol and spread a thin coat on the barbed end. After inserting the hinge point, I make sure it is appropiately positioned and then tape the surface in place. It takes at least 24 hours for a good strong setup, but I assure you they will not fail, or never have on my planes. The Aeropoxy or Hysol is some strong stuff.
Tommy
Old 10-18-2005, 05:06 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points


ORIGINAL: qcrcbill

How about SigBond Aliphatic Resin wood glue for the Robart hinge points? Thank you. Bill

Bill, I think this is what all are referring to when they say simply "wood glue". Should work just fine - I use it. Dan
Old 10-18-2005, 08:58 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

The instructions for the SIG Somethin Extra call for Alphatic Resin Glue. So like an obedient modeler I went to the hobby store and bought a $3 /4Oz. bottle to glue the fuselage doublers. Imagine my surprise when I went to squirt it out and discovered it looked and smelled exactly like the yellow carpenters glue in the gallon jug sitting on the shelf behind me! Now whenever someone asks me for some wood glue I always make sure to correct them and point out that they want "Alphatic Resin Glue". Don't even get me started on Cyanoacrylate.
Old 10-29-2005, 11:31 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

It is very good technique for builders. Like this video very much.
Manish.
Old 10-30-2005, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I never used Robart hinges yet (always used CA and never had a failure). All the info here is quite educating however there are still not answered questions here:
Has anyone used hinge pockets? How to install them (to make sure the hinges are aligned properly)?

Other unanswered question here was: "How many?".
I'm building 85 span wing for Edge 540, and every aileron is 36 inch long, 4 inch wide. Aileron is 1 inch thick at the hinge line. I planned to use 4 hinges (1 about 2.5 inch from each end and additional two 10 inches apart). Is it enough?

RysiuM
Old 10-30-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I recently had my first experience with Hinge Point hinges. The biggest problem I had was alignment from one control surface to the other. I followed Robart's directions, but still had some stiffness due to misalignment. I discovered my own technique. I mark and drill one control surface first and then insert the hinges (not glued as yet). I draw a horizontal center line on the other surface and then use the hinges themselves, while in the first control surface, to mark the exact location of the mating hole. This worked much better than marking and drilling all holes at the same time.

Paul
Old 11-05-2005, 04:28 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points


ORIGINAL: pdmarsh
I discovered my own technique.
Thanks Paul, I used your technique, and it works like a charm.

In the meantime I foun the Robart's Hinge Point Drill Jig absolutely useless[:'(] It centers the hole base on the wing thickness. When the thickness is not changing linear hinges will be not in a straight line. It is much easier to use ruller.
As for drilling there is no way to secure the jig so it doesn't move when drill force is applied. For me, it was just a waste of money.[:@]

I have a question tho. I use the biggest one. My TE is 3/8 thick, so I added a balsa block inside the wing to have 1-1/4 'meat' for the hinge to stick to. It is only balsa so I'm affraid it will be not strong much. Can I pour thin CA inside the hole before I glue hinge with the wood glue? I don't mean to use CA to glue hinges, just to harden the surrounding balsa.

RysiuM
Old 11-06-2005, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points


ORIGINAL: RysiuM
Can I pour thin CA inside the hole before I glue hinge with the wood glue? I don't mean to use CA to glue hinges, just to harden the surrounding balsa.

RysiuM
Hi RysiuM,

I'm not an expert builder, so I hope I'm giving good advice here. Personally, I wouldn't pre-coat the hole with CA. I think you'll want the glue that you use to secure the hinge to penetrate the surrounding balsa. The CA might prevent that from happening.

Paul
Old 04-20-2006, 02:22 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

The tutorial is good as far as it goes. In my opinion, the title should be changed to "How to Glue Robart Hinge Points." There is no coverage of considerations for different types of control surfaces, drilling jigs and hole alignment, etc. I love the product, but this tutorial has limited value for anyone who has progressed beyond the application for a basic trainer or ARF.
Old 06-07-2006, 09:21 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Pretty much anything is better than urethane glue. That would be my last choice as a hinge glue. Yes it holds well but so does everything else. Who wants to have to keep coming back over and over to keep wiping out the access glue, due to the expansion. With other glues there isn't worry that the hinge will be pushed out by the expanding urethane. I have professional experience with these glues and urethane is great glue but I personally don't care to use it on hinges.

As far as putting CA in the hole before gluing. As stated before CA will seal the fibers of the wood up so the glue you are going to use can't soak into the wood. Really the only time I can think that you need to " harden " a hole is when you are going to put screws in a soft wood, as they might pull out under pressure. This is the only real for hardening holes. The glue you use to put the hinges in with will harden the holes sufficiently.
Old 06-07-2006, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points


ORIGINAL: BBOwen
Who wants to have to keep coming back over and over to keep wiping out the access glue, due to the expansion.
It's been a while since I asked the questions. Now I'm a little older by experience of using these hinges. After I got some experience and learned how to install them, they are my favorite hinges ever

I uses poliurethane with great success and I had no problem with hinges pushed out or leaking the foam while curing. That's how I do it now:

1. I mark the center line on the TE of the hinged wing. I don't use any jig as it doesn't work well [:'(], Just measure the center point on bothe ends and use metal ruler to draw the straight line.

2. Then I mark the places where the hinge should be on thet line (I know that before because I have already prepared balsa blocks on the TE for the hinge support[8D]).

3. I drill holes for hinges. Now the tricky part is to drill them straight, means square to the TE. Because I don't have a press drill big enough to put a wing in there I start with small 1/16 drill mounted on Dremell, then I go to bigger and bigger. The last dril size I use on slow speed drill so the hinge goes there very tight

4. I made a sharp tip nylon screw that has diameter of the hinge. The sharp tip shows very precise the center of the hole and marks a spot on the LE of the control surface. So I insert this screw into the first hinge hole exposing a sharp tip just a bit. Then I fit the control surface to the wing and when it is where it shoud be, I press it to the TE of the wing, so sharp point of the screw marks the spot on the LE of the control surface.

5. Now I drill the hole in that spot for the first hinge. Again I use step up drill sizes and the final drill is used on very low speed, so the fit is very tight.

6. I remove the sharp point screw from the first hole and move it to the last hole in the wing's TE. Then I insert Robart hinge in the first hole (in the wing and control surface) and try fit the control surface. Of course it is perfect aligned

7. I align the other end of the contro surface with the wing and when everything is OK I press it to mark the spot by exposed sharp tip of the nylon screw.

8. Remove the surface from the wing (the first hinge) and drill the hole in the marked spot for the last hinge.

9. Now I replace the screw with the second Robart hinge and move the screw to other holes in the wing.

10 Again assembly the wing-control surface and press to mark the next hinge spot. Repeat it for all hinges in the surface every time adding one hinge at the time to new drilled hole.

It looks like a lot of work, but in fact it is not, and with all the tools already on hand and a little experience with drilling holes square to the LE/TE I put 4 hinges in the wing in less than 15 minutes. No binding at all.

Because my holes are very precise and hinges fit very tight in there there is no way the expanding foam glue would push the hinge out. BTW all holes are through the LE/TE (no "dead-end" holes). So the expanding foam has easier way to go inside the wing rather than trying to squeeze out be the hinge.


ORIGINAL: BBOwen
As stated before CA will seal the fibers of the wood up so the glue you are going to use can't soak into the wood.
You are absolutely right here. The glue works much better when it has contact with loose wet fibers rather than hard sealed CA. And it is easy to press in tight fit hinge when the hole is "soft".
Old 10-06-2006, 02:36 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Good video. I drill a small pilot hole first, 3/32 will do witha hand held pin vice. Makes it easier to follow with the correct size. I also slip a 6 mill piece of poly sheet with a small hole punched with a sharp point in the poly. I slip this over the hinge point up to the hinge shoulder to further control the glue. After curing, this easily tears out.
Old 10-06-2006, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Got another giant plane hinged with Robart points. This time I used hinge pocket because I wanted all the surfaces to come out for maintenance.

The only new thing I did this time was the glue. I used recommended by Robart's glue. It looks exactly like yellow carpertner glue (maybe it is the same). I squeezed generous amount of glue inside the hole in balsa and spread it around so the balsa fibers were soaked with glue quite well. Then I wet the hinge point surface with the glue, just to make sure it sticks to the surface. Finally I set the hinge inside the hole. I could move it for about 1 minute before the glue started to be quite hard. Because my holes are quite tight, I could handle the surface after few minutes without worrying of dislocation.

Here are the surfaces with Robart points in there
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Old 01-22-2007, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I use Robart pin hinges on all my planes and have never had a failure. I align and pre-drill the pin holes then try the hinges without any glue to make sure there is no binding. Then, I glue them with 5 minute epoxy. To prevent the glue from getting into the hinge joint, I use vaseline. I make sure the hing joint gets a good coating of vaseline. The vaseline also acts as a lubricant but is not messy like an oil. This technique has worked well on about a dozen kits I have made.

Old 02-27-2007, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I've used Robart hinge points pretty much since they came out and have never had one fail. I use yellow glue and make sure the hinge is coated by rotating the hinge point while pushing it in, then make sure they all hang stright down after I get them pushed in. I seal the bottom of the serface hinge line and make sure they are free. I use the 1/8 for 40/60 size planes and have used the small for an electric Super Sportster and use the big ones for my gasser. If the trailing edge is not very thick, like 1/4 squre, I put blocks inside the trailing edge to re-enforce it. Make a hole all the way through the basla to let the glue go all the way in without creating pressure inside the hole and gives the glue some place to go. Make sure the hinge point is well covered with glue and it will never come out without breaking the balsa around it. Like I said, I have never had one fail. On foam core wings they work great. I've never used one on an all foam wing, but I see no reason they would not work with them as well. They are just as easy to put in as CA hinges and no mess like ca. At least if you get any glue on the wing or your finger, all you need to get it off is a paper towl and maybe some water. Can't say that about ca. Have faith in hinge points, they work great and make for a very free surface.
Old 02-28-2007, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points


ORIGINAL: mred33
If the trailing edge is not very thick, like 1/4 squre, I put blocks inside the trailing edge to re-enforce it. Make a hole all the way through the basla to let the glue go all the way in without creating pressure inside the hole and gives the glue some place to go.
Just to ilustrate this here is the stab of my 23% Wilga. The trailing edge is very light so there are four blocks of balsa glued to TL and ribs for hinges. Also you can see hinge holes all the way through like mred33 mentioned.
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Old 03-26-2007, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I found for making the holes a bit wider at the opening, use a step drill. Have been using it for last three builds and works great. First step fits in the hold perfect, drill into the third step and you have a perect hole. Gorrilla Glue is my favorite for holding the hinge in.


Jim
Old 04-11-2007, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

Robart Hinge Points:

I have developed a method of installing them that takes only a few minutes and does allow a limited window for oops!

I use medium or thick CA. I put a drop or 2 (depending on size of hinge point) in to the hole, which by the way I do countersink and dry fit for best (least) gap and movement, I then follow that up with a drop of DeBonder in each hole, then insert the hinge points on one surface and fold them over to ensure alignment. Then follow up with the CA and Debonder on the control surface.

The Debonder gives you a window of 15 to 30 seconds depending on ca and brand that you can pull the surfaces apart if needed (like one of the points missed the hole).

After both sides are together it takes several minutes for the ca to fully cure due to the debonder, and when cured they hold very well.
Old 04-12-2007, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

ORIGINAL: cr2k
I use medium or thick CA.
Not sure about this method as on the ROBART Website in the section "How to" there is a warning:

Warning do not use CA glue to when installing Robart Hinge Points this will make the hinge brittle.
Old 05-16-2007, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I like the hinge points too and have always used Gorilla glue, although using yellow carpenters glue is might tempting. Might even try the Pacers hinge glue if that's what it's for. I also have the 560 canapy glue that is easy to work with. I agree with rajul about using a dremmel cone to countersink--it makes a beautiful round depression that fits the knuckle perfectly. These hinges are so easy to use, I don't know why anyone would every use CA hinges. I bought the drilling jig too--makes it even easier.
Old 07-27-2007, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: New HOW TO Posted: How to Install Robart Hinge Points

I just got done doing all the Hinges on my Sweet Stick.. here's how it went.

I took most of this from the Robart hinge Howto on Airfield Models.

Don't bevel the surfaces before drilling the hinges.. Do it after the holes are drilled.

Pic 1.. Figure out where you want the hinges on the plans..

Pic 2 Since the Stick has a 1/4" stab I got a 1/4" square hardwood stick to use as a drill guide..
Mark the hinge lines on the stick and down the center.. Then drill through the marks on the drill press.
If you don't have a drill press just be extra careful to get it through the same spot on both sides..
I'm using 1/8" hinge points so it's an 1/8" hole. When it's done I tape it on to the rudder with some blue masking tape..
I tried clamps.. this is better. mark one side as pointing to the stab.. the other to the rudder in this case.. You don't want to get it turned around later.

Pic 3 Setup the drill but to go the full depth of the hinge plus the 1/4" for the drill guide. Drill each hole on one side..

Pic 4 There ya go.. perfectly aligned holes..

Pic 5 remove the drill guide flip it to the Stabilizer.. remember to keep the opposite side facing out.
Drill the holes..

Pic 6 shows the hinges in the rudder.. Notice how I've cut pockets for each hinge so when it's bent 90 deg it 's flush with the edge of the rudder.
Robart hinges are also a little fat on the ends so I widened the holes top and bottom with a small round file till the hinge fit.


Pic 7.. hinges in.. It's aligned nicely.. Time to cut the bevels for the hinge line.

Pic 8.. Done!

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