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New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

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New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Old 07-02-2009, 09:22 AM
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rctom
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Default New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


Hello all:

I want to let you all in on something that I've been working on for quite a while. It's taken a lot of research to line up all the proper components to make this plane something that's "real news" and not just another design to add to the pile of "same old same old" electric designs.

IN the past I have attempted to put together several electric fun/3d/aerobatic planes (from various vendors) to have something I can throw in my car and fly when I feel like it. But I have been disappointed at every turn. There was always one or more of these problems;

Planes were too small and too delicate or were too big and required major $$$ for equipment.
They didn’t fly well because of their lightness and/or lack of power.
Power systems are always a mystery with no really good information on what to expect causing a simple fun plane to turn into a costly R&D project to find what motor/prop/ESC works.

I decided to solve this problem with my own product. This new Edge-540E is 56” wing span with 520 sq. inches of wing area. It weighs 3.5 lbs including a 4s2500 Lipo battery pack, ready to fly. It is scaled down for our 88” Edge and has many of the same features plus some new ones that are specifically suited for electric power, specifically;

Fiberglass cowl and wheel pants.
The cowl mounts on a cowl ring with 1 hidden screw and is pre-installed, looks great and works just like the big Edge.
Pre-installed and pre-drilled motor mount accepts a wide variety of motors. Just bolt it on.
Carbon fiber landing gear is strong and light, beautifully made.
The tail surfaces are keyed so they are automatically aligned correctly.
Flexible servo configuration, use either standard servo or mini’s for elevators and rudder.
Full length top hatch has quick release latch PLUS attachment screws for added security. No magnets.
Battery mounting area is long and unrestricted, accepts large packs with room to adjust location and balance.
Allowance for cooling air to flow through.
Removable wing panels mount on a carbon-fiber tube spar.
Real spring mounted steerable tailwheel, no more single wire strut dragging in the back.
CA hinges on all surfaces are easy to install and reliable

Complete hardware is included with the plane and it’s good stuff that is appropriate for a plane this size. It include “glue-in” composite control horns. There are no “quick connect” links, all pushrods are pre-made to length with clevises and Z bends, nothing to slip or come loose.

We have researched power systems and we have a brushless outrunner motor/60 amp esc/prop combination that works great and is economical.
Battery packs to be used range from a 3s-2100 mah pack (works fine for sport flying) up to a 4s 2500 (or more) for 3D. The 60 amp ESC will accept up to a 6S Lipo so if you want more power just put in more battery, but we think the 4s is plenty of power for almost anything, this power combination with 4S Lipo is sufficient to jump (not just pull) out of a hover. 2500 mah will fly the plane for at least 8 minutes with some power left. The ESC includes a 4 amp battery eliminator circuit so the receiver and servos can be powered from the flight battery. The ESC is also programmable for motor direction, brake, soft start, and several other parameters.

You can purchase the plane alone for $199 or with the motor/esc/prop/spinner kit. For $339. Prices include UPS ground shipping on lower 48 states. Build time is approximately 4 hours.

Digital mini-servos (HD power 1810MG 55 oz. inch torque) are $20 each, you will need a pair for aileron servos and 1 for the rudder. For elevator a “Y” type pushrod is supplied that allows use of almost any standard servo, or you can us 2 mini’s in the tail with separate pushrods in the same manner as our larger planes.

To summarize, you can get the plane alone for $199, plane with all power components for $339, and $399 gets you a complete package including servos, you just add a standard servo and batteries.

The planes will be available in our September container, and will also be available configured as a "Slick 540" instead of an Edge, the difference being the Slick has a slightly swept leading edge like an Extra where the Edge has a perfectly straight leading Edge.

We will have some discount plans for purchase of multiple kits, so consider getting together with a friend to purchase and save some money.

BTW both planes fly great, more like a big plane than an electric.

TF
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

[X(][X(][X(]

I have already (literally) made up an "Electric Edge" category in my budget, Tom.

This looks like EXACTLY what you said...a TREMENDOUS solution to "Throw in the car and go fly"

Count on me for an order when they arrive!
Old 07-02-2009, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Me too, but make it a Slick. Complete package with the big batteries
Old 07-02-2009, 02:18 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

Me too, but make it a Slick. Complete package with the big batteries
I was just playing around with some batteries. I noticed that some 4200mah 4s packs I had add only about 5 oz. to the weight, it's still under 4 lbs. with this pack and should fly about 15 minutes with it.

I'm going to brave the oven-like temps here this afternoon and give it a try. This is the 4th revision of this plane so it's not exactly research, more like goofing off.

Anybody local want version 2? Free to good home, just call me. Version 1 went to another flyer and version 3 met an untimely death.

TF

Old 07-02-2009, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I wish I were local, I would take that in a heartbeat. This is a perfect size I believe, Tom.

This plane is a perfect, in-between sized, throw-in-the-car, fly-at-the-(large)-park, plane. It is also just about the upper end size of the planes that can still use the lighter, less-expensive batteries. This is especially interesting as now we have access to decent 4S, 20C, 3600 mAh batteries for about $39 or so. If yours came in around 3.5 lbs with the 4S 2500 mAh pack, it will likely be able to handle much larger packs as well (including A123's).

I know how much work you have put into this newe design. It appears you have put together an excellent package. This size actually fills a void in the market, where most of the planes are either larger or smaller, or are glow conversions. I love the degree of completion, and the price is also outstanding for a complete package (shipped even). You have put a lot of good thought into this package and all the small details really add to the overall package.

I will buy a Slick.
Old 07-02-2009, 08:13 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


This afternoon (in 103 degree heat) I flew the plane in the photos with a 4s4200 pack. I wanted to see how it handled the extra weight of this huge battery pack.

The plane with this brick in it came in at just under 4 lbs total and I found that it actually flies better with the added weight. It's a good deal more stable and will still rocket vertically like nothing else that I have flown. Landings are walking speed so I see no reason not to use these bigger packs. And the bigger battery maintains full power a lot longer so full performance 3D flights for 10+ minutes is realistic.

Where do you find 4s 3600 batteries for $39? I'd like to try one, it sounds perfect for this setup.

TF
Old 07-02-2009, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

ORIGINAL: rctom


Where do you find 4s 3600 batteries for $39? I'd like to try one, it sounds perfect for this setup.

TF
Here are the cheaper batteries. They are "good" batteries, but not great batteries, i.e. 1C charge rate, voltage will drop more than other packs, you likely won't get 500+ cycles out of them, etc. For the price they work well.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=7296
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=9364
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=7299

These ones are a bit better:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=8584

Of course the "very good" batteries will be ~$75 - $120 for 4S 5000 mAh, such as these:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=5726

Do you know your current draw on this setup?

Thanks!
Old 07-02-2009, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


It's an interesting thing that I'm learning about batteries in these planes.

What I have found is if your plane can handle a larger pack (meaning more weight) you can get by with cheaper batteries.

For example the 3700mah battery from your link, while its output is meager in terms of C ratio, the simple fact that it's 3700 mah means that for a 40-50 amp load you never need to get close to 20C so the pack is not stressed nearly as much.

I flew today with a 4s 4200 pack that was a real cheapo, it was very marginal when I used it on a much larger plane, but for this one it's overkill. As a result it lasts a long time, doesn't get hot and its losses are smaller as it discharges.

I had been flying with a high C discharge 2500 mah pack, and while performance was better at the beginning of the flight the heavier pack was better throughout the flight.

The 6 ounce weight penalty didn't do anything on this plane, but I suppose on a smaller plane the weight penalty would have been significant. It's a real balancing act.

These electrics are more complicated than I thought, there are a lot more factors involved in choosing a setup than with a gas plane.

Great fun!

TF
Old 07-04-2009, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Hey Tom I will be up there July 16th the whole week at a friends if you still have the bird I will take it off your hands will call later today..
Old 07-04-2009, 09:06 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


I forgot to mention that this leftover plane's landing gear mount was damaged in its final flight. Some repair will be required.

TF
Old 07-09-2009, 07:47 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I would be interested in seeing a photo the motor mount box. In addition to weak landing gear mounts, I have found many (if not most) of the electrics out to have weak motor mounts due to trying to save weight in the mount/firwall area. One nose over while taxiing out and the front end rips out! [X(]
Old 07-10-2009, 04:58 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: rctom


Where do you find 4s 3600 batteries for $39? I'd like to try one, it sounds perfect for this setup.

TF
Here are a few more, from a stateside vendor: http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=9
Old 07-13-2009, 06:13 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

oh my gosh. count me in this september. i adore these colors. i have also found myself playing more and more with electric over my gassers
Old 07-26-2009, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Awesome.
Old 07-26-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

love that new edge whats the price for two
Old 07-27-2009, 09:49 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: bladebender

love that new edge whats the price for two
Actually we will have them packaged in a 3 pack, if you buy 3 of them get a discount, 3 for $475. Go in with a friend or 2.

This way they can be shipped out in a single box without major oversize charges.

TF
Old 08-16-2009, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Hi Tom, I really like the looks of the new electric Edge, looking forward to Sept. I've talked to a couple club members and it looks like I will be ordering a three pack. Is the color scheme of the slick the same as the Edge?
Ron
Old 08-16-2009, 12:47 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: classicrod

Hi Tom, I really like the looks of the new electric Edge, looking forward to Sept. I've talked to a couple club members and it looks like I will be ordering a three pack. Is the color scheme of the slick the same as the Edge?
Ron
Yes the slick is the same scheme, but I am getting half the planes with red/black/white instead of red/black/yellow for those people who are sick of yellow.

TF
Old 08-16-2009, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


BTW we will have the web page on this new plane up in about a week I hope, but here's a news update.

I have decided on the components and price for the "power kit", which will include everything you need to complete the plane except for the batteries.

The kit will have brushless outrunner motor which can generate up to 900 watts, but normally it would be kept down to about 500-550 which is plenty for anything with this plane. On a freshly charged 4S-3300 Lipo it turns a 12-6 APC electric prop about 10,300 rpm which is enough to yank it out of sight vertically in about 5 seconds. It's the kind where the base mounts to the plane and the can part spins, the prop adapter is bolted to the can. None of that cumbersome "clamp to the shaft" prop adapter nonsense, it's simple, straightforward and very powerful.

The ESC is a 60 amp unit with a 5 amp BEC. That's 60 amps continuous with an 80 amp burst for 10 seconds. Also the ESC will accomodate up to 6S lipo just in case you feel the need to go racing or something. I wish I had known about this stuff when we had the LR1s, this would have been an excellent setup for that little plane. The ESC is also programmable (with addition of a $10 programming card) to adjust basic parameters such as brake, motor cutoff/voltage, soft start, etc. It's not a cheap[ie, it's a very good ESC. I hav etried it with a 50 amp ESC of the same brand but for a few bucks more I decided to get the 60 amps unit which will be more useful if you want to put it in another plane later.

The power-kit will include 5 HD power servos rated at about 29 oz. each. I have tested these guys on my test plane, they work absolutely great on elevators (use two, on on each side) and ailerons (also 1 per wing) and this servo is adequate for rudder. In normal everyday flying nothing else is needed, if you want to knife edge from horizon to horizon then you can upgrade the rudder servo in several ways. You can replace the single mini servo with a stronger digital servo, or there is provision for using a standard size servo mounted amidship with a pushrod or pull-pull setup. Either way will cost about $20 to upgrade. The servos will come with necessary extensions as well.

The power-kit will also include an APC E-prop and a 2" Dubro plastic spinner, screws and blind nuts for mounting the motor, and some velcro to use in holding down the battery and mounting small components like the receiver and ESC.

If you buy the plane and the power kit you will quite literally have everything you need to go flying except a receiver and batteries.

Oh, one other thing. The motor and ESC come with all the connectors already soldered on, there will be no soldering required. Just plug it all in and go.

The power kit will be priced at $150 if you purchase it with the plane, $199 if you just want to buy it to use on (heaven forbid) a competitor's plane. So if you want to try out electric aerobatics (this little plane will easily fly the IMAC sequences) $349 will get you in the air.


TF
Old 08-16-2009, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I'm in for the whole kit and kaboodle. It will be nice to fly something that comes complete with a "matched" power system. Plus I'll get to try out the HD servos and see for myself how they work out.

This should be just about the right size to fly out in fornt of the engine shop before work and before the winds come up everyday. The "resident" electric flyers wiould likely join in.
Old 08-16-2009, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man

I'm in for the whole kit and kaboodle. It will be nice to fly something that comes complete with a ''matched'' power system. Plus I'll get to try out the HD servos and see for myself how they work out.

This should be just about the right size to fly out in fornt of the engine shop before work and before the winds come up everyday. The ''resident'' electric flyers wiould likely join in.
Pat:

All that is true, but the people reading this should be aware of a couple things.

First, the plane handles wind very well. You don't need to wait for a dead calm day or be afraid if you get it too far downwind that you won't be able to get it back. It's not that kind of a plane, it's more like a hot .40 size glow plane. With batteries it weighs 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 pounds. I've flown it in winds of 10-15 mph and enjoyed it a lot. It's not just a park flyer.

Also it is not something that you only fly close in, it will cover lots of sky and will happily do IMAC as well as 3D stuff. While it's appropriate for flying "outside the office" it's also very at home at the regular flying field and will keep up with any other planes that are up.

TF
Old 08-16-2009, 07:43 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Ahhh, but most people don't fly where the kite and windsurfers are out in force by 10:00 in the morning. The shop is on the shore of the Columbia River Gorge on the Oregon/Washington border, noted as among one of the most consistent places in the world for great kite surfing. Meaning damn windy. I've seen 4 foot wind waves on the river and wind speeds to 40 knots. 20 knots is a mild breeze

Didn't mean to make it sound like a fair weather flyer. Fair weather where I work is an odditity rather than the norm. The "park" in front of the office is sort of tight, bordered by trees and the river, so for me it's size should make it a natural for the location.
Old 08-23-2009, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Does the $475.00 for three include shipping in US and can we mix planes (Slick and Edge) or do we have to take three of the same plane/covering scheme?
I have some interest from some other electric flyers in my club.
Thanks Eric
Old 08-23-2009, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Yes you can mix planes, no it doesn't include shipping. Allow about $50 to ship the 3 planes.

We can package the power package in with each plane and save shipping on that also.

TF
Old 08-23-2009, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Hey Tom, long time since I visited your forum. ( Due to a renewed love of yellowfin & Striped Bass fishing) Hurt my back at work last winter & was laid up for months but have been flying again for the last three or 4 weeks. Still flying 4 of my 5 Wild Bunnies but due my back I need help to fly (starting & assembly). These look like they may be a solution to my problem. I'm not supposed to lift over 5 lbs so this is under the limit & at 56" wingspan it is big enough to satisfy me. Guess I better start saving up my quarters. What time of the month do you expect the planes to arrive?

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