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AMA EC Key Measures of Performance - Last 15yrs

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AMA EC Key Measures of Performance - Last 15yrs

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Old 02-12-2019, 11:03 AM
  #26  
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I know it costs a little bit more to get the magazine in a protective plastic cover , could that option be skewing stickslammer's renewal price ?

TBH I can't remember what I paid last time , I always do the two year renewal and I get the cover on the magazine .
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:13 AM
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I doubt you're seeing a dues increase. The EC simply does not move that fast!

Probably like others have suggested, an additional cost for the magazine cover or something like that.

I like the line "you don't want to miss a minute of your AMA benefits". Haven't missed them for over 25 years now!
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:37 PM
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So if the AMA goes by the wayside, couldn't a private landowner maintain a flying field with membership requiring a homeowners policy plus his insurance, like fliers1 touched on?
Along with cooperation with the FAA of course.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:50 PM
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A very likely scenario. All flyers should have a H.O. policy with a large liability rider(umbrella policy/1million) and a "hold-harmless" contract protecting the landowner. Make it annually renewable. Pretty easy to set up.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer View Post
So if the AMA goes by the wayside, couldn't a private landowner maintain a flying field with membership requiring a homeowners policy plus his insurance, like fliers1 touched on?
Along with cooperation with the FAA of course.

So one would be required to own a home to fly model airplanes? That sounds worse then mandatory AMA membership to me.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:13 PM
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A renters policy, or a stand-alone personal umbrella policy would achieve the same result.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:15 PM
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renters polices can have the proper riders and umbrella added and general purpose umbrella polices can be had as stand alone.
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:22 PM
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Something to check into. Iíve got a buddy who had renters insurance and crashed into an adjacent field to our flying site which started a fire. AMA paid the claim and I didnít hear anything about his renters insurance. I suppose he didnít add that coverage. I will check into it for myself.
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:12 PM
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few years back, a poster here, STL, i think. looked into the cost for a 40 member club to carry their own liability policy, primary, and the cost was about 50.00 per member per year.
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:56 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
few years back, a poster here, STL, i think. looked into the cost for a 40 member club to carry their own liability policy, primary, and the cost was about 50.00 per member per year.
Does anybody know somebody who would have the where-with-all to organize a group insurance policy for the general aeromodeling public? If possible, I wonder how many modelers would quit AMA?

Last edited by fliers1; 02-16-2019 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 04:11 PM
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Not sure, most AMA members that fly at club sites do so for competitive events and for the social aspect of the hobby. The insurance is just an added bonus. I consider myself a typical AMA member and if these aspects of the hobby were to go away for whatever reason I would most likely find a new hobby. I do realize that the hobby is winding down, it has been for decades. I just canít see the AMA as being the only reason.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:08 PM
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Why find a different hobby? As long as the clubs are still around and can work with the local FAA office, there should be no legitimate reason to quit flying. If NAMBA folded, I would still run my boats. I would still follow all the guidelines that NAMBA presently runs under and would have to find locations that would be legal to run at but, otherwise...……………
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Why find a different hobby? As long as the clubs are still around and can work with the local FAA office, there should be no legitimate reason to quit flying. If NAMBA folded, I would still run my boats. I would still follow all the guidelines that NAMBA presently runs under and would have to find locations that would be legal to run at but, otherwise...……………
Well Said Hydro !

While the social aspect of the hobby is great , I would still fly my model airplanes even if I was the last RCer on earth . For me , it's not about social interaction or competing with anything beyond the forces of nature , it's about the joy of seeing the machine I'm controlling zipping through the air responding (mostly) to my controlling inputs .

Now , as to Franklin's well researched and presented graphs , these should be a wake up call to anyone who "needs" the AMA in order to enjoy their particular sub genre of our hobby . Sure , I'd miss the club field chatter , but I am serious that I need nothing but open skies to enjoy my model airplanes .....
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Why find a different hobby? As long as the clubs are still around and can work with the local FAA office, there should be no legitimate reason to quit flying. If NAMBA folded, I would still run my boats. I would still follow all the guidelines that NAMBA presently runs under and would have to find locations that would be legal to run at but, otherwise...ÖÖÖÖÖ

My point is that without AMA the clubs would start to disappear. Most land owners ( government lands) require the liability insurance that the AMA provides. There may be replacements for this but I doubt it would be seamless. Clubs would shut down as a result. Without the club site most of what I fly becomes obsolete. There was a time when going out and flying alone was enjoyable to me. It still is to a point, when trimming a new model or learning a new aerobatic sequence are a couple examples. I simply donít think my enjoyment per dollar spent would justify staying in the hobby without the social aspect.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:31 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post



So one would be required to own a home to fly model airplanes? That sounds worse then mandatory AMA membership to me.
I didn`t mean to exclude anyone who doesn't own a home, as of course there are many reasons not to. But yeah, it`s doable through other avenues. Think of it this way, more money going into the clubs for improvements to runways, building a clubhouse, etc.

Last edited by Stickslammer; 02-17-2019 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Spelling/grammar
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:56 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Well Said Hydro !

While the social aspect of the hobby is great , I would still fly my model airplanes even if I was the last RCer on earth . For me , it's not about social interaction or competing with anything beyond the forces of nature , it's about the joy of seeing the machine I'm controlling zipping through the air responding (mostly) to my controlling inputs .

Now , as to Franklin's well researched and presented graphs , these should be a wake up call to anyone who "needs" the AMA in order to enjoy their particular sub genre of our hobby . Sure , I'd miss the club field chatter , but I am serious that I need nothing but open skies to enjoy my model airplanes .....
I don't "need" AMA to enjoy the hobby. Many others do not either. But the people who do "need" the AMA would be well served to start aggressively pressuring the EC to change their financial and business strategy. Time for serious cost cutting to buy time (suggest staff and magazine, two largest expenses). Clearly what they're doing isn't working. Who has the most to lose if AMA's finances continue on the current trends? Those who "need" AMA fields to fly.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:20 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
Not sure, most AMA members that fly at club sites do so for competitive events and for the social aspect of the hobby. The insurance is just an added bonus. I consider myself a typical AMA member and if these aspects of the hobby were to go away for whatever reason I would most likely find a new hobby. I do realize that the hobby is winding down, it has been for decades. I just canít see the AMA as being the only reason.
Maybe in the clubs you fly at but I'd be willing to bet that most don't fly for competitive reasons but, rather, just for the fun of flying. I build boats and planes because I like to build. I race boats, not so much for the competition as much as for the fun of running in a competitive environment. Back in 2014, I went to a race where my boat showed that it had serious handling issues that prevented me from trying to really compete with the others that were there just to try and win. I qualified for the second consolation heat where I finished dead last. Did I care that I was last? NO, I DIDN'T. I was there for the fun of the event, not to show how fast my boat was or that I had something to prove. I finished my heats, earned some points and took my boat home in one piece. To me, that was a successful day.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Stickslammer View Post
So if the AMA goes by the wayside, couldn't a private landowner maintain a flying field with membership requiring a homeowners policy plus his insurance, like fliers1 touched on?
Along with cooperation with the FAA of course.
Follow their rules and the FAA doesn't care what you do. And BTW, the FAA does NOT require insurance. That's an AMA pimp!

So yes, it can be easily done.
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mongo View Post
few years back, a poster here, STL, i think. looked into the cost for a 40 member club to carry their own liability policy, primary, and the cost was about 50.00 per member per year.
When the SFA was about, their insurance, 3 mil primary liability, was included in the $35 annual membership. It has no doubt gone up from then (1990), but I think even at $100 it would be a deal.

Then there is currently these guys: IDRA
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Old 02-17-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by init4fun View Post
Well Said Hydro !

While the social aspect of the hobby is great , I would still fly my model airplanes even if I was the last RCer on earth . For me , it's not about social interaction or competing with anything beyond the forces of nature , it's about the joy of seeing the machine I'm controlling zipping through the air responding (mostly) to my controlling inputs .

Now , as to Franklin's well researched and presented graphs , these should be a wake up call to anyone who "needs" the AMA in order to enjoy their particular sub genre of our hobby . Sure , I'd miss the club field chatter , but I am serious that I need nothing but open skies to enjoy my model airplanes .....
As I get older I find I enjoy the build more than the flight. In fact the flying is simply the proof of the pudding for me.
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Old 02-17-2019, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Hydro Junkie View Post
Maybe in the clubs you fly at but I'd be willing to bet that most don't fly for competitive reasons but, rather, just for the fun of flying. I build boats and planes because I like to build. I race boats, not so much for the competition as much as for the fun of running in a competitive environment. Back in 2014, I went to a race where my boat showed that it had serious handling issues that prevented me from trying to really compete with the others that were there just to try and win. I qualified for the second consolation heat where I finished dead last. Did I care that I was last? NO, I DIDN'T. I was there for the fun of the event, not to show how fast my boat was or that I had something to prove. I finished my heats, earned some points and took my boat home in one piece. To me, that was a successful day.

I would agree that most don't fly nor care about competition. I would however think that everyone wants to reach the top of the skill level that they are capable of. During that time of climbing the ladder so to speak the flying itself is more enjoyable. At this point I use competition as only a gauge to see if my flying is still improving and more importantly at this stage in my life, are my design and engineering efforts up to the level I want.

To adress Franklin, Nobody " Needs " any of this. Flying in a club setting and socializing with others is how I " prefer " to enjoy my hobby. To take a similar tone to yours: How I enjoy my hobby is my business. That being said, I am concerned about the direction AMA is headed. I do also think they will survive. Although I have said this before and you placed no value on it, I have a bit more perspective on the situation then what you have. Being in the hobby for 40+ years, a good amount of those years being in the industry. I have seen the hobby decline and rebound, I have seen new aspects of the hobby initially be shunned and then accepted. I have seen a government agancy pose a challenge to the hobby and seen the AMA step in and make us a path. I have seen and heard guys such as yourself stand up and predict that the sky will fall. AMA and thousands of modelers have weathered those storms the same as we will weather this one.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post



I would agree that most don't fly nor care about competition. I would however think that everyone wants to reach the top of the skill level that they are capable of. During that time of climbing the ladder so to speak the flying itself is more enjoyable. At this point I use competition as only a gauge to see if my flying is still improving and more importantly at this stage in my life, are my design and engineering efforts up to the level I want.

To adress Franklin, Nobody " Needs " any of this. Flying in a club setting and socializing with others is how I " prefer " to enjoy my hobby. To take a similar tone to yours: How I enjoy my hobby is my business. That being said, I am concerned about the direction AMA is headed. I do also think they will survive. Although I have said this before and you placed no value on it, I have a bit more perspective on the situation then what you have. Being in the hobby for 40+ years, a good amount of those years being in the industry. I have seen the hobby decline and rebound, I have seen new aspects of the hobby initially be shunned and then accepted. I have seen a government agancy pose a challenge to the hobby and seen the AMA step in and make us a path. I have seen and heard guys such as yourself stand up and predict that the sky will fall. AMA and thousands of modelers have weathered those storms the same as we will weather this one.
I never said you can't enjoy it for the social aspects. I guess that would put you in the "need" category, perhaps another type of "need," but "need" none the less. And there's no problem with that. You have your reasons.

Regardless. I want to move to something you said later. Namely that you've been in the hobby for 40 years and that you have "seen the hobby decline and rebound." Well, I don't have data going back 40 years, but have data going back 20, and I don't see anything more than constant decline punctuated by short rebounds (ironically just in the years they raise dues). So I'm wondering ... where are these declines and rebounds of which you speak? Or is it really just a constant state of decline after all? The numbers would sure indicate that.



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Old 02-17-2019, 05:49 PM
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LOL so now I am in the social aspect of the hobby due to " Needs ". The way I see it due to the type of answers I get from you is your " Need " to be a big fish in a little pond. Go ahead and cry like chicken little all you want.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL so now I am in the social aspect of the hobby due to " Needs ". The way I see it due to the type of answers I get from you is your " Need " to be a big fish in a little pond. Go ahead and cry like chicken little all you want.
Hey, no problem if you want / need / whatever word you choose - to be a member. But how about the financial statement you made? That you'd seen declines and rebounds. I've looked back 20 years and see lots of decline and rebounds only when they raise dues. And each time they raise dues, within two to three years the revenue is below what it was before the increase.

So, when were these declines and rebounds you spoke about?
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by speedracerntrixie View Post
LOL so now I am in the social aspect of the hobby due to " Needs ". The way I see it due to the type of answers I get from you is your " Need " to be a big fish in a little pond. Go ahead and cry like chicken little all you want.
The AMA is in some serious fiscal trouble. Whether you (with your vast retail experience), the EC or anyone else care to see it, it's there. And when the roof falls in, I for one will enjoy watching all the nay-sayers scampering around like Chickens with their heads cut off.

I will hate to see it happen to the AMA as I still believe such an organization is needed. But it has lost it's value for many modelers for many years now and is long past due a major shake up and re-focus. Maybe then I can help pull it out of the ashes. But I doubt it. I'm getting too old and am certainly too sick to do more than watch for entertainment value.

While technically trained in electronics by the military and subsequent jobs, I hold a BS in Management, an MBA concentrating in Organizational Management and a PhD in Organizational Management. I understand how a corporation, any corporation works. I went for these degrees, in particular the MBA because on my resume they rounded me out into a very versatile individual. The big Corporations around the DC Beltway like that sort of thing a lot and I took advantage of it. And while I never really used the training except in passing, I, like Frank, am trained to analyze corporations and recommend changes to improve their overall function. Frank has actual hands on experience doing it.

And if you can't respect those facts. Too Bad!
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