azuz

PatternFly

Thanks, I was thinking of putting two DS 811's on the Elevator and wanted to fix the two on the back just below the stab, now the problem is that fuse is two narrow to accomodate the two in line on the opposite side. Do you have any suggestions.

2nd does anyone have the pictures of their widebody servo tray setup and fuel tank.

Also with a 91fx installed without a fuel pump can i pull the tank behind.. will it effect the performance. ?

regards
aziz

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Aziz,
I don't think it is a good idea to use 2 DS811 servos for Elevator halvs. It will be tail heavy. the plane has long tail moment.

I believe the Original at CA model website balances well with the stock locations for the servos.

Didn't you plan on using the bellcrank?
Unless you are nose heavy with 91FX, I suggest you not to use dual elevator servo setup.
If you really want to use dual servos for elevators, try to get mini digital servos with less weight.

91FX with fuel tank at CG will suffer from fuel delivery problem. this will cause lean run during vertical manuevers.

Right now, I can not access the CA model website, so I have no idea what else is possible.

azuz

OK

Your Comments on the final Setup

2 DS 811's on the ailerons. and 1 on throttle
1 605 BB on the Elevator with Pushrod / Bellcrank.
1 8425 on the Rudder.

Do you recommend this setup or should I use the 1st setup i thought off ? (POST NO 46)

I will go with the fuel tank as specified in the manual as off now.

Regards
Aziz

Thomasr

DS 811 should work great for the ailerons, I don't know why you want one on the throttle, but there aren't any major reasons for not using it there. As for the other servos, I don't know much about them, so I'm not going to pretend to know anything about them either.

DS 8411 is a good servo, however, for accuracy, I think DS 8231 would be slightly better. They're all great, so it's not a real concern on this type of model.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

DS8411 Digital Servo Specifications
Torque: 155 oz./in.
Speed: .18 sec/60¡Æ
Sweep: .16 sec/60¡Æ
Weight: 2.03 oz.
Size: .75x1.54x1.36
AABearing: Dual
Motor: Coreless Hi Torque
Uses: 1.20 Size to 40% Giant Scale Airplanes

8231 Ultra-Precision Digital Servo Specifications
Torque: 88 oz./in.
Speed: .22 sec/60¡Æ
Weight: 1.73 oz.
Size: .75x1.54x1.36
AABearing: Dual
Idle: 11 ma
Motor: Coreless
Uses: pricession pattern and jet airplanes, collective and rudder on helicopters

Here are the spec of the 8231 & 8411.
Personally, I use 8231 on Elevator with MK bellcrank, 8411 on rudder in my Pilot BeatOn90.
For Widebody, I plan to use 8411SAs for elevator and rudder. I know it is overkill, but I already have them. You can get by with 8231s just fine, but I dont have spare 8231s.

I try to use stronger servo for larger control area, so I prefer 8411SA on elevator because of the actual elevator size larger than the rudder.

I have no idea about 8425 so can not comment on it.
If I choose, I would use the setup on #46
As Thomasr said in previous posting, you don't need a 811 on throttle. Just use whatever you have that are good enough for the plane. Try to keep the overall weight lower.

esport33

My Feedback: (2)

Has anyone figured out what size tank to stick in the wb60 yet. I'm running the fx91-h like patternflyer. Hey patternflyer since I know you're watching the thred, what about the tank placement... any recomendations?

robert

I am going to use a 14oz tank for my YS 91ST, and I will put the tank in the cockpit as the engine is pumped.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

esport33,
Are you going to use a pump or regulator?
if not, you will have to put the tank behind the firewall. I am going to use one of MK, OK, Tettra 400cc on CG depends on the space with a Perry V30 regulating pump.

Robert,
Have you run the engine yet?

it's cold with snowing or raining most of time, so I haven't run my engine yet. Hope to run the engine this weekend.
I have extra head shim installed in my 91SX and have 4 pipes to try.

robert

What does the extra shim do?

robert

Oh sorry, I forgot to answer. Nope, don't have the engine running yet. There are so many things running through my modelling head, that one minute, its the highest on the to do list, next, it ain't. I'll see if I can get a stand up for it though.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Extra shim in the 91SX is suggested to lower compression and reduces vibration. That's what heli guys told me.

robert

Thanks. I'm a gonna see if I can get an engine stand built for it or something.

azuz

Patternflyer

I agree with you that it will become tail heavy I have located a shop selling MK bellcrank out here they have a few of those with them costing me around 30$ per piece. But i have decided to go for it. The 8425 is the same as 8411 but its only got a metalgear, i think its from the singpore people thats why its got a different tag./ no.

Well if i put in a bell crank, what kind of pushrod do you recommend with this type of high torque servo. if you can give me the size and specs on that rod, i would really appreciate.

cheers
aziz

Thomasr

I haven't done it myself, however, this is the idea that I think is the best solution; Modify the bellcrank so that you can use pull-pull from the servo to the bellcrank. I like pull-pull for its simplicity and precision, and I've seen this solution on several (2x2m) F3A planes.

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Azuz,
I use 5.5mm (1/4" or 3/16") Carbon Fiber pushrods with titanium ends from Central Hobbies. If you can not find them in your area, try to get at least DaveBrown fiber glass pushrod.
All the linkage I use are 2.5mm or 4-40.

Pull-Pull from servo to bellcrank idea of Thomasr is also good if you can modify it.

azuz

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the input, especiall to Patternflyer. Here is the list of all the equipment that i gave today to my builder to install.

91 Fx with a V20 Perry Pump
400 cc tettra tank
3 Ds 811 for the aileron's and Throttle
2 Ds 8425's for the Elevator and Rudder
Pull-Pull on the Rudder
Bell Crank on the Elevator, from WM (worldmodel)
RX 649 S PCM JR
1100 Mah JR NICd
WM control horn
Carbon Fibre Tube between the servo and bellcrank something like a dowel shape but made of carbon.

So tell me what you guys think of this ?

Azuz

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

Sounds good, although unless you just have a DS-811 laying around collecting dust, I'd put something lighter and less expensive on throttle. I'm using a Hitec HS-81 on my throttle.

FWIW, this is the setup I'm finishing up:

YS FZ91
12-14oz tank (got three, trying to find the biggest that will fit over the CG)
JR 649S PCM receiver
2 JR 9411 ailerons
1 JR 8417 elevator with dual CF pushrod setup
1 Futaba 9402 rudder, pull-pull with a tiller bar
Hitec HS-81 throttle
1100mAh battery

Should be sweet...

azuz

Pattern Fly

The carbon rod i can get is a 8mm ? would that be a problem ?

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Azuz,
As long as it is stiff enough and you can find a way to connect it, I don't think it will be a problem.

Is that a hollow tube with thin wall?
Since you said it is a rod, I believe it has very thick wall or a solid carbon rod?

azuz

pattern Fly

ITs a hollow rod taken from the diamond dust kit built at one of my freinds hobby shop. thin wall hollow tube..correct.

Azuz

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Azuz,
Is that tube designed for pushrod?
If the tube has more than 1.5mm wall thickness, you should be fine.
I use 8mm hollow tube for removable stab. If the wall is very thin, I won't use it for pushrod especially for elevator.

People flying 2m full size pattern planes also use 3/16" thick wall tube (Central hobbies) for elevators without problems, but you have to support it in the middle for the vibration.

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

where should I put the fuel tank with a .91 FX? there is no fuel pump, so I dont know if moving it to the CG is a good idea-
I can get a sullivan 16 oz. tank behind the firewall, Is that my only option? IMO 12 oz for this .90 is not enough, my Ultimate Kaos could barely get thru the pattern twice before deadsticking with a .90 FX. One Day of building has the fuse pretty much complete, now I just have to wait for the tank and the mount. I am thinking of going with the B.C.M pitts muffler for the WB, to keep from hacking into the fuse for the stock muffler. my Dad has this setup on his GB Extra- same 15x6 prop.
Like I said, I love this kit, I am ready to start on the wings now- Is there any thing inder the wing sheeting besides the servo lead holes? Or doe we have to make the servo cabin there ourselves?
I am still bummed with the canopy that came dented in on the side- it left a big crease on the top of it- could have happened in customs while it was re-packed.
I hope to get some pics on a new thread here soon!

PatternFlyer

My Feedback: (182)

Brian,
Which sequece are you are you talking about? Intermediate? or Advanced? Masters?
I think you are better off with 14oz. 16oz kinda sounds too big. Anyway it's up to you. If you don't have a pump, you better stick to the location right behind the firewall.

Also, the fuse doubler is balsa on my kit. Were yours also had balsa in it? Fuse doubler in my kit is not very strong.

I think we have to cut out the servo location. I could not find any marking for that. The instruction only says where to make the hole.

Have you talked to the guys who you bought the kit from?
My kit had slight wing damage because of the landing gear. Outside box is fine, so it looks like the shake during shipping caused the damage.

Since I am going to use pump with 91SX, I will probably build a glass canopy out of the original canopy and paint it so the tank can go on the CG.

Which engine mount are you using?

snsmith

My Feedback: (5)

Brian, you have to cut the servo holes yourself. It's not hard...an Xacto (Approxo ) knife and a flat blade screw driver will have it done in a minute. I just mark the proper position, cut in with the knife and dig out the foam with the screwdriver. One comment, the designer has the servos sideways relative to conventional design. I put mine in the normal orientation, as rearward and near the middle of the surface as possible to reduce the linkage length. I'm using JR's mid-size digital servo (9411) to reduce the necessary depth.

PatternFlyer, the balsa doublers are pretty fragile alone, but once glued, the cross grain doubler makes the completed assembly extremely stiff. No need to worry...

baronbrian

My Feedback: (13)

yes, by having the cross grain on the doublers, you are basicly creating your own ply-wood- I wish other kit manufactures realized this, though they are fragile before guled. In fact, i borke One getting it out before I realized that i had to do this to make everything line up. Did you doulbers fit the holes front and rear of the wing? Mine did not.
The sequence I was talking about was intermediate. This year I should start flying advanced.
I think 16 oz. is really nice for a .91 fx. a 14 would be o.k., but I like to fly for more that 10 min at a time. I have used a 12, and 8 min is about all I get. I figured that I would have to go right behind the fire wall, and I dremeled out the tops of former F3 and F4 to get the tank in over the top of the wing bolt block and to slid forward. The tank is 5.3/4" long and there is 6" between F1 and F3. so a little foam, and I'm there! I have not done the front decking on the top of the fuse yet because I want to get it all set up while I can get my hand in there, also to help with mounting the engine mount. I am thinkin of making a hatch between F1&f3 to access it after it is built, but if it is built in it shoud be O.K.
I was really hoping for "buried treasure" inside the wing, but I guess I can do it myself. I am also going to orientate my servo front to back- mostly for added SPEED