rcmaster12

thanks for the responses, where would you buy a perry pump and how well does the powerbox muffler(mounted as a pitts style) work?

AirTech

My Feedback: (18)

RCmaster12

Tower Hobbies carry the [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDG59&P=7]Perry Pump Regulator[/link] , but unless you have lots of experience working with pumped engines you are looking at a lot of trouble. In my limited experience I can tell you, you may end up replacing the carburetor to make it work properly. For more information you can call Conley Precision Engines at 1-630-858-3160 and they can help you much better.

If you are only interested in pumping the fuel from a tank that is too far away from the engine. I will suggest you try a Cline Regulator from [link=http://www.billsroom.com/pcfs/]billsroom.com[/link]. It's going to be more expensive but it's a lot less hassle.

Han2007

I simply used the Perry Oscillating Pump ordered from Tower Hobbies, it simply bolts to the back of the crankcase cover (with two longer bolts) and works like a dream. You also don't need to tap the crankcase as it is totally an inline oscillating driven pump. Since I've installed it I have never to date had a reliablity issue, the thing is awesome and only costs $30.

As for the powerbox muffler I bought my 1.20 AX without the muffler and ordered a pitts style Bisson muffler with the engine instead right from the get go. Knowing the baby extra I'm sure the powerbox muffler could be fitted within the cowl (worst case with an extention), but I couldn't comment on the powerboxes performance over the Bisson.

In a nut shell, this setup is incredibly simple, incredibly powerful, and incredibly reliable. Since installing the pump I have countless flights on the airframe having put the plane through some incredible high G manuevers with total reliability and awesome performance.

One of the best Wild Hares yet.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I use a 120AX with a perry regulating pump, and it works like a charm. Best thing to do is break the engine in with the tank at the firewall. Once engine is tuned right, install the pump and set the pump up to the engine's run-in needle settings. Then tune to 100rpm below max on the ground and you are safe and good to go.

I thought oscillating pump was meant for four strokes, but I don't really know. Purring 120AX does not vibrate a lot, so I like the option of having undoubted case pressure powering the pump.

The 120AX even has a little place in the center of the backplate to tap for the pump; very clean installation. Others like to enlarge one of the back plate screws, but I don't see a need with the design of the back plate - looks like they put it there just for tapping the engine.

Stock muffler with adapter works well.

I use 10% nitro, currently have the extension but not the 90*, and stock muffler. 15x8 prop gets 9200rpm, 16x8 gets 8200rpm and it's still breaking in (only a few days so far on the engine).

Han2007

Nothing against the regulating pump (I used one on an O.S. 1.60 FX and it works great), however I can personally vouch that the O.S. 1.20 AX oscillates more then enough to vibrate the simpler oscillating Perry pump plus you don't have to tap the crankcase then either. In my baby extra I have a 20oz fuel cell mounted back on the planes CG, around 8 to 10 inches behind the engine and I was pulling enough G's to deprive the engine of fuel stalling it. After simply installing the inline oscillating Perry pump I had very consistant/constant fuel pressure and to date my 1.20 has never stalled. I even put the plane through some even higher diliberate G forces after the installation to put my own mind at ease that the set up was reliable.

A couple of side notes though, I do use Great Plains plastic engine mount for 1.20 size engines which is a little longer and probably does afford the engine to "oscillate" a little more the an aluminium one would. As for the pump it is hard to find longer screws that will work for the crankcase to mount the pump, but I just used longer bolts with two nuts on each, screw the bolts in tight, tighten the first nut down onto the crankcase cover, the second nut down onto the pump flange. Simple enough fix.

Just my two cents.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Well sounds like it might be worth a shot on my new bird

Perry says oscillating pump is 'for four strokes, bla bla, also works on two strokes...'

rcmaster12

As far as the Perry pumps go, should I use the one that uses the engines oscilations to operate or the one that uses a pressure fitting tapped into the engines crank case?
thanks again for all the comments

Han2007

I've used both styles and in my personal experience with them I really haven't noticed a difference between the two performance wise, they are both great pumps. The regulating pump does need a pressure source though necessitating that the crankcase be drilled and tapped with treads. I ultimately ended up sticking with the oscillating pump version because there doesn't seem to be any difference in performance and it is an enclosed system where the regulating pump can potentially get oil and debrie in it from the tap line. Just my personal reasoning, although I've never had any issues with the regulating pump on an O.S. 1.60 FX. I also personally feel that there is less potential for mishaps using the oscillating pump as drilling holes and taps can be messed up (I'm also not fond of having holes in my crankcases) and threads can inadvertantly end up getting stripped as well. Just my two sense...

If you do end up choosing the oscillation pump remember that you will need to order or find two longer crankcase bolts as the stock ones will not be long enough. At a local hardware store I found bolts that were a half inch longer then stock with four nuts. I screwed the bolts in tight, tightened the first set of nuts down onto the crankcase cover, and then tightened the second set of nuts down onto the pump flange. Fairly simple. One other side note, if you've never used a perry pump before remember to initially prime your fuel lines (using either pump) before attempting to start your engine or you'll be spinning that prop for a while. After that, after each refueling one flip and you're on your way.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Sounds like it's personal preference, really. Perry says the oscillating pumps are for four strokes and for giant scale two strokes. The oscillating pump obviously requires oscillations, or vibrations, and the regulator (v30) uses crank case pressure. I have used the regulator but not the oscillator. The 120AX has a little place especially for tapping for the regulator, and there is never question that you have crank case pressure (unless you have a BIG problem), but my thoughts are that you have to make sure there is enough vibration for the pump to work, at all times, which is why is suggested for larger engines. I emailed perry and got the response that the regulator 'should not have any problems' with the 120AX. I hate the word should; the 120AX is probably the smallest engine that the oscillating pump would work on. Sounds like taking a chance to me, though maybe not a very big chance.

Back plates are not terribly expensive to replace if you decide to tap it but then decide you want something different. And yes, there's always the thought of screwing up the tap, although welding, soldering, or JB Weld could be a plan B there.

I've gotten into pattern flying, and have talked to many pilots including some of the best in the world. I have not met any that use the oscillating pump but many who've used the regulator, and they all say 'set it and forget it' and that it works very, very well. They've helped me set up the regulator (very easy to do) and it's been flawless. Remarkable, actually =)

I'm going to stick with the VP30 regulator - it works great on my Venus II/120AX, should work well here, too. Why change it?

rctom

The oscillating pumps depend on engine shaking to drive a little piston back and forth. That works great on a 4 stroke but many 2 strokes are simply too smooth to drive the pump.

I had an oscillating pump on a Saito 1.50 and it worked great, but it would not pump on a Thunder Tiger 1.20 2 stroke. The VP-30 is the more reliable pump on a smooth running engine.

TF

rcmaster12

thanks for the posts, looks like I'll be using the pump that uses the crank cases pressure.
-Thanks again

rcmaster12

I was doing a little research, and I found the super tiger G2300. Using a Bisson pitts muffler, It would cost about $70 dollars less than the O.S. I did notice that it was a bit heavier, but it has an extra .6 HP. Has anybody had any experience with this engine or any other suggestions?

Han2007

Yes, Yes, Yes, I had one. I don't know if others have had better experiences with this engine but the one that I had gave me nothing but grief from the moment I set eyes on it. Took me five hours just to get it running, and then another three to keep it running. If you don't mind spending more time with your plane on the ground instead of in the air get a G-2300. Traumatized me so bad that O.S. is all that I will ever use when it comes to glow fuel. O.S.'s reliability and customer service really make it worth the extra money.

To be fair though, I may have just ended up with a lemon.

P47 Jug - Al

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Everyone,
I am now the proud owner of the Baby Edge 540. I have read through both this thread and the build thread on the Baby Edge 540 absorbing the various tips presented.

What I have not really decided on is an engine for the baby edge 540 and that is where I am looking for some help. Both threads make mention of engines with the EVO 26 being the most mentioned. There are many references to the Saito 125 4 stroke and OS 120AX 2 stroke and very few references to the OS 120 4 stroke. I am mostly interested in 3D and am looking for your experience there. One person made mention that the 120 AX would rocket out of a hover which is the kind of info I am looking for.

I own both an OS 120 4 stroke with pump and a Saito 125. The Saito 125 has been mentioned in the second hand to work well for 3D. Does anyone have first hand info on the 125 in regard to 3D performance; pull out from hovers, special setup required, etc.? I read somewhere a Perry Pump was required and assume the VP20 would be the best.

Thanks for all the good info that has been posted and I am looking forward to reading what the 3D fliers chose for their engines along with their thoughts on the three engines I mentioned, OS 120AX and 120 4 stroke along with the Saito 125 4 stroke.

Thanks again,

Al

Gungadin

Al Of the three you mentioned the 120AX will produce the most power/thrust.

P47 Jug - Al

My Feedback: (1)

Gungadin, thanks very much for your feedback. I am very tempted to order the 120AX and go with it also since it will shake rattle and roll less than the Saito 125. Having said that, I still hope to hear from a 3D’er running either of the 4-strokes and hear of their experience.

Thanks again,
Al

jsallade

Posted to wrong forum... sorry. I'd delete if I could figure out how!

Han2007

If I remember correctly Tom (from Wild Hare) designed the Baby Hare’s specifically for glow fuel and used the O.S. 1.60 FX to test the prototype. He stated that the 1.60FX was more power then it needed and made the Extra a little nose heavy and as a result went with the O.S. 1.20 AX 2 stroke.

I can personally vouch that the O.S. 1.20 AX will rocket the Extra out of a hover, I do it regularly. I love the 1.20 2 stroke because it’s light, incredibly easy to use and maintain, really powerful, and incredibly reliable. Once the fuel line is primed, it’ll start every time with ease a joy to use.
One warning though, with the O.S. 1.20 AX 2 stroke if you mount the fuel tank back by the planes CG (right in front of the wing tube) as I did for better 3D performance, you will need a Perry fuel pump. Mounting the fuel tank back by the CG puts it about 8 to 10 inches behind the engine and with high G forces 3D’ing the exhaust pressure is not enough to push fuel past the G forces to the engine. Since I’ve installed the pump I haven’t had a dead stick since.

This plane/engine combination is an awesome set up and the Baby Extra is hands down my favorite glow fuel airplane, my second favorite of all of my planes (my Wild Hare 50cc Extra 300 being my favorite). These planes have light wing loading, are incredibly stable and agile in the air, and a dream to fly and land.

Just my 2 cents, hope it helps.

P47 Jug - Al

My Feedback: (1)

Han2007,

Your 2 cents is very helpful for me. I ordered the 120AX and am in the process of getting a Perry VP30 regulating pump. What size prop did you use for break in and then your 3D routines? It looks like an APC from the pictures.

Thanks again.

Han2007

I started out with an APC 15x10 for break in, and now I run the 16x8 APC. Even during break in with the 15x10 the plane would have unlimited verticle climb. Even with the added weight of a 20oz fuel cell.

I can gun it (after break in) and it is off of the runway in less then thirty feet, then yank back on it and it rockets straight up completely out of sight. Even during break in it had way more power then it needed. Also, using the Bisson Pitts Muffler for the O.S. Max 1.20 AX I don't get alot of exhaust slim either, I usually just have to wipe down the the underside of the fuselage and I'm good to go. As far as 3D glow fuels go it doesn't get much better then this.

One other note of advice, you will want to go with Great Planes Adjustable Engine Mount for 1.20-1.80 size engines. It's a little longer then its counterparts and you'll need the reach, there's a lot of room in the cowl. (check out post #206 and 217 in this thread on page 9).

Lastly, if you haven't checked out Tom's "Smaller Bunnies" thread there is also some good info there as well.

P47 Jug - Al

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the reply Han2007!

The 120AX will be my largest 2-stroke and on my other 3D planes (smaller than the baby) I use a Saito with a wide prop like a 14x4W or 16x4W. Does the 16x8 APC you mention give good 3D hover type performance or is it better for pattern?

I checked out this and it makes sense.

Good stuff here too, thanks.

Thanks again,
Al

Han2007

I've only used the 16x8 APC prop to date and the 1.20 seems to have a wide enough rpm/power range that the 16x8 works pretty good all around. I have heard of a number of guys using a 17x6 APC prop with the O.S. 1.20 with some pretty good results. I recently bought a 17x6 APC prop but I haven't had a chance to really play with it yet, the one time I used it there was a small drop in rpm's (expected) but I didn't get a chance to see if it improved hover/harrier 3D type stuff or not.

Shawnlh

My Feedback: (-1)

Ok boys, time to do a biuld using 8S elecrtic power.

Who's frist?? Whos got the brass in the pants!!

rctom

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8056989/tm.htm

Jimeni

I know its a little late in the thread. Saw some doubts as to if the MLD 28 gas engine would be enough. I have one in an Aeroworks 72" Yak 54 AUW 10lbs 9 oz, and it shoots out of a hover with power to spare. Hovers at between a 1/3 and 1/2 throttle, and I dont even have a gallon of fuel through it yet. After 20 oz of fuel, it was turning a Vess 18x6 at 8100 RPM, going to check it again after 1 gallon. I'm thinking about replacing the AW Yak with this 260, or Cermarks. The MLD 28 really impressed me, I had an SPE 26 on it 1st, and the 28 is much much nicer. Here is a video I made right after 20 oz of fuel (two 10 oz tanks), if you want to see its power. http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/MLD-28-wmv

Oh yeah, nice thing, the MLD only weighs a few oz more than a Saito 180, and thats including muffler, and ignition. It also smokes a 180 on RPM's on an 18x6 prop, I started with a 180 in the Yak, that little gasser is night and day over the Saito. Plus all the benefits of gas over glow. After 2 gallons, I'll cut loose with it in a video, and post it.