Reguardless what It-Flyer says about practice, We real 3d pilots know that when you are flying-youre practicing. Its whats called a learning proscess. Some one said it way back there; wheather he knows it or not he is practicing. A true 3d pilot also knows that hovering and T-rolling are not the only 3d manuvers. There is a wide range of them. And Yes!!!! You Have To Practice. Different vairiables exist when learning new tricks Like timing, throttle management, control compensation, and other things.
I have a Magic too and love it, But it won't do everything. I have been known to tap each side of the leadind edge with my TX antina. And yes it took practice.

Oh well , not trying to be deroggatory just adding my Two pennies

Shane

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=red]Dear 3D beginners, good news, very good news.

Finally we have found a 3D expert that told us beginners an important and fundamental trick.

DEAR MITHRANDIR, THANKS A LOT, "HUGS AND KISSES".

[COLOR=BLUE][sm=thumbup.gif][SIZE=6]
SO IT'S A MATTER OF A RIGHT PITCH SET-UP

[8D]As also Mr. McConville says in his articles "we'll try to help de-mystify the 3D "magic".
Nobody can do magics, illusionists use only some tricks.

What does it mean?
[sm=thumbup.gif]WOW, We must not go mad with the rudder. We can't fix the plane trying and trying the right YAW set-up continuing to do right left right left right left, [:@][COLOR=RED]PRACTICING, PRACTICING, PRACTICING, BURNING FUEL, BURNING FUEL, BURNING FUEL.

[COLOR=BLUE]We must find the RIGHT PITCH SET-UP (NOT PERFECTLY VERTICAL BECAUSE A PLANE IS NOT A HELICOPTER).
If we are seeing a plane fix perfectly vertical THERE IS A TRICK, THE CONTROL SURFACES ARE SET UP AS IF IT WAS SLIGHTLY BENT FORWARD IN THE RIGHT PITCH SET UP, OR THE PILOT IS USING GYROS.

I think the engine control is very important too, as if we had to fly the plane a little up and down in the right pitch set-up instead of in level flight.

I have found that the best model to learn 3D with REAL FLIGHT G2 (I have no add-on) is CAP 232 because it has a good inertia along the three axles.

THANKS A LOT DEAR MITHRANDIR

HUGS AND KISSES.

[COLOR=GREEN]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

on a low wing design like the CAP, a degree of engine upthrust will make the model sit more vertical in the hover

with zero degrees of upthrust the cap needs to be leaning slightly on its back, ie towards the canopy

this is how I do it, use engine angles to get the right pitch setup in hover, and use rudder only for big corrections. the plane will most likely fly out of trim for straight and level, but for me it is much easier to make the straight and level stuff look smooth with an untrim airplane than to hover with non 3d trim plane.

Well IT-Flyer... First, Thanks for the complement, but I would not call myself a 3D expert!!! I have just tried a few things, I too am in learning stage!
also.. my previous point was that you need to give the plane the corrective control input that will fix the upset the plane will be in when your control input gets there. A yaw upset might need a pitch input if that is the way the time works out.

Another little trick I am working with....... when my plane finds the "MAGIC" spot in a torque roll, it will suddenly speed up in roll. It will develop a roll rate of about 1 and 1/2 rolls per second. There is NO way I can make corrections this fast. I usually find this "SPOT" when I am in a slight descent whilst TR'ing. What I do is the following: I will modulate the thrust between a high power and a low power, about one thrust modulation cycle every 2 or 3 seconds. The "AVERAGE" thrust is just enough to maintain altitude or slightly descend. I have observed that when I find the spot when it rolls very quickly, there is usually a cloud of exhaust stagnating around the plane (Chopper pilots know this). So the MAGIC spot is a point when the plane is in a "CELL" of stagnant air. (Maybe not stagnant but developing a swirl with the plane) By modulating the power, you are effectively blowing away the stagnant air. Maybe with the large planes, the magic spot is manageable, but with the 72" KATANA and the CERMARK SUKHOI, it spools up so fast it is a BLUR!!!

live long and prosper

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=red]Dear 3D beginners, other very good news.

[color=blue][sm=thumbup.gif]I too that I still can't hold in hover or in torque roll my plane have intuited another trick when I wrote:

[sm=thumbup.gif]Our intelligent 3D expert Mithrandir has said the same thing:



What do you think, Mithrandir, about this idea? We beginners in the first step could try to hold the plane almost fix, a little bent forward, against the wind, helping also with ailerons.

Do you use ailerons in hovering and torque roll?

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

Hello IT-Flyer (and all)
I would suggest that one of the first steps to precison flying, or 3D is to master rolling circles. (Start out doing slow rolls maybe before this?) Why you may ask? A rolling circle will help teach your thumbs various control inputs with the plane always in a changeing attitude. As you get better at the rolling circle (in low rates), you can pull the power back, go to high rates, and WAH-LAW... rolling (Circular) harrier!
As far as the hovering is concerned, The KATANA I currently fly does not have the AILERON authority to resist rolling. Full right aileron, I still get left roll, and with full right aileron, as you back up, they assist the torque roll. But I do not use aileron with or against TR's.
I would further suggest you go here... http://www.aero3d.net/Planes/planes.shtml
Download one of the TOC CAPS or one of the big ULTIMATE bipes. These setups are pretty good for practicing TR's. I have found that to fly realistically, I need to set the TIME MULTIPLYER to 130 to 150% Otherwise these setup just fly too good!!! I had a G2 video of myself TR'ing the big ultimate in the GYMNASIUM flying site for 2 minutes LOL. Not bragging, just pointing out how easy they fly at 100% Time Multiplyer. The next big leap I made was when I bit the bullet and just started to fly (TR) in close. I practiced TR's at 200 feet altitude for a long time and at some point, I stopped getting better. I got G2, practiced there until I developed the proper "REFLEXES" to do TR's, and then began to bring it in close. The ability to see more clearly what the plane is doing was maybe the single biggest step forward for me. I also spent a great deal of time developeing the reflexes to do rolling circles with G2. Then I worked on variations, ex. changing roll directions every 90 degrees of the circle. Starting the rolling circle from inverted, alternate roll direction, start rolling circle from knife edge and alternate directions. Transition to rolling figure eights, with alternating roll directions. Even rolling loops. With enough practice (OOPs... did I say that out loud??!?! LOL) you will see that you have developed the reflexes to do this stuff. I only get in trouble whe I start to consciously "THINK" about what I am doing. Another benefit I picked up from G2 is this..... In order to maintain a sense of orientation, you must do maneuvers low enough to have a bit of the terrain within the view of the monitor. ie. fly low. If you fly without seeing the surrounding terrain, soon you have no sense of direction. This has reduced the "FEAR" I previously had with flying low in a constantly changing orientation.

Here is a unrelated photo, but the background was so awesome that day... plane is a sweet heart too...

hope yuh'all didn't think I rambled too long!!

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=red]Dear 3d beginners, this topic is becoming more and more interesting.

[color=blue]Still thanks a lot to Errolw98 and Pizza.

[&:]Mithrandir, I haven't still understood well what are "rolling circles".

Isn't there anywhere a picture or a video where I can see "rolling circles"?

You also use the radio in mode 1. To do "rolling circles" (what are they precisely?) must I do: low speed, a little left ailerons, and elliptic movement of left stick counterclockwise?

[sm=thumbup.gif]Another trick to use Real Flight G2 correctly:



[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country

I will try to explain
Imagine a slow roll. that would be a full 360 degree roll taking say... 4 to 6 seconds to complete. This will require the use of elevator and rudder in a "Blended" or "Transitional" manner. In other words, you are adjusting the amounts of elevator and rudder inputs to maintain a level flight path while rolling slowly.
A rolling circle is a slow roll, or rather 4 slow rolls (Typically 4, occasionally 1 or 2 or 3) done sequentially, but adjusting the flight path such that each 90 degrees of a circle will consist of one roll. You fly a horizontally oriented circle while rolling. Maybe I will do one in G2 while recording and send to you the file?

I recall that doing circles with just one roll, and knifedge circles holding just rudder and some elevator both directions really helped me get started. by doing this you can easily "keep up" not fall behind and become comfortable stering the airplane around with the rudder. this will also teach you how to hold sticks at different positions (required for 3d) and release slowly to keep everything smooth.

could someone please describe or show video of a rolling harier.

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=red]Dear 3D beginners, finally we are building the fundamentals to learn 3D step by step.

[sm=thumbup.gif][color=blue]Dear Mithrandir, I think I have understood what are rolling circles.
I want to ask you two questions:

1 - Are you in accordance with Pizza which says to start doing circles with one roll?

2 - It is easier or more difficult to do slow rolls going straight on or following a circular path?

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

I don't have strong feelings about doing rolling circles with 1,2,3, or 4 rolls. I think that the Knife Edge flight, doing something other then straight and level has merit. I would say a slow roll is easier then rolling circle. I have a recording to send to you monday. Chip Hyde has said elsewhere in this forum basically if your plane is rocking in harriers, it is nose heavy. I recently added lead to the tail of a plane that rocked badly... tah-dah... it harriers very solid now!!!
ciao

mds

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[&:][color=blue]Because of my bad American, I haven't understood your sentence:



Could you explain yourself in a simpler way?

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

so glad to see that you guys are starting to practice!!!!!!!

[8D][size=4]Hi people

Dear Adrian-RCU

[&:]Unfortunately you aren't able to understand what we are trying to do.

[color=blue][sm=thumbup.gif]We want to follow a method to learn 3D flying and not [:@][COLOR=RED]PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE [color=blue]without knowing what tricks we must use to learn "magic" hover, "magic" torque roll, "magic" harrier and so on.

WITH A METHOD AND WITH THE RIGHT TRICKS ALL IT WILL BE EASIER.

[COLOR=GREEN]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

I think that the Knife Edge flight, doing something other then straight and level has merit.

fly your airplane around on its side using top rudder to hold it level just like you would fly it upright using elevator. with very little practice you will use elevator to turn right or left, you will need a little aileron to keep it from rolling out. use the throttle to get more rudder throw as needed but try to keep it slow as possible, fly the entire tank this way. try it on simulator.

IT-FLYER....
Yeah... what PIZZA said!!!

mith

[8D]wrong - youre the ones that don't understand - the simm and all the time you waste talking about how too, you could have mastered the manuever in real life - because the simm will only help you with some basic s and only flight time is what gets you there!!!!so cut the crap and get out and practiceplease!!!

Here is another little goody... notice the elev and rud are used to keep the nose committed UP!

http://www.3dbatix.com/videos/3dtrai...ngharriers.wmv

Sorry if anyone is offended by this but thats BOLLOCKS

What do you call this then



This



This



and THIS



So, IT, there vertical can you see bent surfaces, you see and string! NO

IT'S CALLED THE SWEET SPOT- the only way you find it is with practice - fact[>:]

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=blue]Dear adrian-RCU,

It is not your fault if you don't understand. There are people more intelligent and others less intelligent.

[color=red]It is very important to fly at the field, BUT IT IS MUCH AND MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO KNOW HOW WE MUST DO.

[:@]I'm not wasting my time, because some intelligent persons have said very interesting things,
very important tricks, even if it will be difficult take their advice.

FLYING WITH A METHOD, WITH INTELLIGENCE CAN GIVE US MORE SATISFACTION THAN PRACTICE DOING CRAPS.

[8D][color=blue]If I didn't say intelligent things, there would not have been 3.620 persons who have visited this topic.

[:@][:@][:@][size=5]If you can't say anything intelligent, be quiet and don't visit this topic. Continue to practice and crashing your planes.

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

Dude, you are really insulting. If someone suggests to practice, you spend alot of your time and effort to insult them. Maybe if you were a bit less demanding and a bit more friendly, more people would be willing to help you. Quite honestly, you sound like a 12 year old.

Here is how I learned to hover: Build a SPAD3D from spadtothebone.com Then point the nose up while flying while slowly increasing the throttle to get it to hang motionless. Then feed in a tad of right rudder and keep it centered with the elevator and ailerons. The SPAD3D is a great tool to learn to hover and they don't break when you crash them. After just one day at the field...I guarantee you will have a good feel for 3D flight. The SPAD3D hovers better than anything. In the time you spent on your computer in this thread, you could have learned every 3D trick in the book.

Hope that helped...I am an intelligent person.


I have confidence that you will be insulting me very soon

S'cuse me Mr. IT, its OK to put forward your idea, but saying some one is thinck is just damn right rude . I recon you should just [size=10 ]shut up, [/size] go and practise flying 3D your way and leave 99.99& of us people to get on with wot we want to do with our time and to read relevent information which is not cloging up this forum!


IAN[:@][:@][:@][:@]