I have followed this thread from the beginning and have learned a lot here. The articles by Mike McConville that Dauntae linked to are great. I had read them before and could not find them to post. My thanks to Dauntae for posting those links here. I know the "P" word was in there several times but not without some instruction as to what to practice.

Vittorio, I need to ask you if you have developed any kind of a routine at all on your G2 for say the first 1 - 2 minutes?

Something I do that I find helpfull at the field is to theme the day. I may have a plan to test several adjustments on the plane one day. Another day I may have a plan to work on what I feel is the weekest part of my flying. Another day I may just want to fly with the creative side of my brain, but that is the days plan. In an effort to continue to progress and grow my skills with some order, I use a standard 4 min drill for the first part of my flights. With this routine I can do a few things.

First, I can evaluate my plane to see how it is reacting to the same inputs I last used if I have made any changes. If I had made no changes, I can determine if something has gone wrong that was missed in preflight. (I landed 1 minute in today and found a stripping aileron servo at full throw was causing the difference from last flight to this. If it had stuck at full throw?????)

Second, if it is the first flight of the day, I can tell if I am up to speed with the task of 3D flying. We all have off days or may need more time to tune in to the conditions.

Third, I burn this sequence of stick moves into my thumbs brain. Like Pizza Ray's drill. When I can take off, Run my four minute program without large mistakes or feeling anything is wrong with the plane, I am free to work on whatever the days plan is.

Without this routine, I doubt seriously if I would have progressed as quickly and dementionally as I have. I made my routine up because I found myself getting into a rut and not flying some of the harder stuff in favor of the easy, fun stuff I had down pat. It started out as a 2 minute drill. Once I got that down and it was all fun and easy, I added another hard element to it.

Just a suggestion for you and your friends.

Italian-flyer You obviously did NOT read the links, The Ultrastick is the plane they chose to use in only one of the threads not all of them nor does it tell you that you need one. In the other two they chose to use a Cap and a large one BUT does not tell you you need to go out and buy one, And it does give you step by step instruction, Read it and it tells you exactly how to enter the move and how to execute it. To show you what you did not read this is copied from the links on how to do The "Waterfall"

What it is:

A continuous tail-over-nose descending flip. It's not a loop, but the aircraft actually flops around its canopy.

CAP set-up:9Keep in mind this is the plane they use so they tell you how to set it up)

Once again, the critical component is having the 3D-elevator travel 4-1/2" of down elevator. An aft CG helps this the most.

How to do it:

Start relatively high. At low throttle, gradually pull the nose up until it's near vertical. Just before it stalls, add full down and full power at the same time. You have to continuously "fly" the rudder and ailerons to keep the plane flipping over in a straight line. To do consecutive Waterfalls, continue to hold full down and "fly" rudder and ailerons, and chop the throttle as the nose comes back up to vertical, then add full power as it flips straight down.

Trickiest part:

No doubt here- flying the rudder and aileron correctly. You really have to "fly" them and make constant corrections. The amount of rudder you add will vary. If you don't do this, the plane will fall off into a knife edge spin.

Recovery:

Just neutralize the elevator and the CAP will quit flipping, but expect some over-rotation, so practice high until you get the feel for it. Fly out straight and level, or stop the rotation while pointed vertical and go into a torque roll.

Worst way to mess up:

Take it down too low, over-control your elevator on recovery and snap into the ground. To avoid this, simply change rates on your elevator to normal 1" travel.

It does not get more spelled out than that, If you are going to insist on us helping you then please read what we give you and come to terms with reality that you will NOT learn to 3D by just reading how and G2, You can learn what to do BUT you need to practice it no matter how much you think it sucks, it is the fact. This thread is just getting too repetative already. Trying to help but you don't seem to be willing to take it.

Dauntae
Now why the H@*L is my text GREEN

But the plane Ultrastick is big and the engine too.
Then to learn more easily we beginners should use a large plane with a big 4 stroke engine.

when starting out pick an airplane designed for 3d that is under 5lb and has a very large wing area. also keep it cheep to start, too many people show up with a $1000 setup crash on first flight and you never see them again. My diablotin is 4.5lb all up and has a 63" wingspan, I have flown many different 3d planes over last 2 years, soon as you get over 5lb- flying difficulty goes up exponentially. Chip can hover a bathtub with prop on front, the rest of us need to start cheep and light, then eventually go big and cool looking as skill level progresses.

I believe the future of 3d modeling will be a unique class of airplane - about 2 meter in size, made from a special foam which has a smooth side that is fuel proof. It will be extremely light, powered by 46 - 91 size glow. It will be very inexpensive, not crash proof but easy and cheep to repair. It will come in many different configurations, color schemes. at a recent fun fly/show in Prague, Czech Rep. everyone had typical 3d foamy profile electric with 2' wing span when suddenly a guy pulled out a 2m foamy extra 300 look a like, a witness said everyone had eyes popped out. after the show everyone ran home to start building their own. I have never flown a model airplane that did not need some right thrust adjustment. it has to do with newton and that other guy that discovered torque - there is no set amount in degrees, start with one flat rubber washer about 1/16" thick between firewall and engine mount on left side to push the engine to the right. as you add or remove washers, hovering and other 3d stuff will get easier or more difficult, find the sweet spot. good luck and keep us posted, ray

the crap stays!!= the only way is practice, fly and more practice!! no matter what!!![:@]

[size=4][8D]Hi people

[color=blue]DEAR 3D BEGINNERS

[sm=thumbup.gif]GOOD NEWS, VERY GOOD NEWS

Today I have flown my "Modeltech Magic 3D" at the field.
[color=red]I have been able to hold it - 25 / 30 meters high - in hovering, even if not perfectly vertical, for 10 /20 seconds at 1/5 throttle.
Before I couldn't do it. The Irvine .53 is a blast. At full throttle the plane becomes a missile.

[color=blue]How has it happened?

[size=5]THANKS TO REAL FLIGHT G2

[size=4]Half an hour two or three days every week trying to hold the plane in hovering, using this set up:

1 - Aircraft > Extra Special. Edit Extra Special > Control surfaces: 30°

2 - Options > Miscellaneous > Time multiplier > 50%

Mr. Mc Conville in his articles - see over "dauntae" - says to set in the plane gyros for elevator and rudder. In this way it is as though the plane flew underwater.

[sm=thumbup.gif]WITH REAL FLIGHT G2 WE GET THE SAME SETTING UP TIME MULTIPLIER AT 50%.

[color=red]Then also we beginners must [:@]"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"?

NO, with REAL FLIGHT G2 we enjoy ourselves in complete quiet with intelligence STEP BY STEP.

[sm=confused.gif]WHY STEP BY STEP?

Setting Time multiplier on 50% > 60% > 70% and so on.

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.[/font]

And you know what?.............using G2 2 or 3 times per week is practice!

The same could be achieved flying 1.5 hours per week.

As always it boils down to practice whichever way you cut it.

Marcus

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=blue]Dear Marcus,

An intelligent person wants to learn with the slightest effort.

[:@][color=red]"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE",[color=blue] without a method, building and crashing, we leave it to stupid people.

[color=green]We want to learn easily step by step.

[:@]WE HATE THOSE WHO SAY: [color=red]Elevator up, Rudder left, Throttle down, Ailerons up and down, more Elevator down and rudder right and left down up left, BECAUSE THEY CAN DO WHAT SAY TO DO.

IT IS NECESSARY TO BE ABLE TO TEACH, ONE THING AT A TIME AND NOT A LOT OF THINGS AT THE SAME TIME.

[size=6]IT IS MUCH AN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO TEACH THAN TO LEARN.

[:@][COLOR=BLUE]I will never be able to do "Waterfall" following Mc Conville suggestions.

IT IS NECESSARY TO DIVIDE THE LEARNING IN SOME STEPS, USING REAL FLIGHT G2 SIMULATOR WITH AN APPROPRIATE SET UP THAT I DON'T KNOW.

DEAR 3D EXPERTS, PEACE, BUT YOU MUST LEARN TO TEACH

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

Learning with the "slightest effort" is not possible, no matter how strange it may seem, it all boils down to practise in the end. People who compete in the TOC and XFC ect did not get where they are today with the slightest effort, it took a LOT of practise.

People who just practise practise practise don't just build crash build crash. You don't have to practise everything down on the deck, start a few mistakes high, and you'll have no problem.
People who practise are "stupid people" now? [&:]

"PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE" NO, "SUCK,SUCK,SUCK"

why do some practice every day for a lifetime and can barely take off and land, when a kid shows up for the first time with no experience and touches the tail in 3 weeks? those big guys practice just before a contest not to learn how to move sticks (its too late for that) but to become aclamated to a particular airplanes flight characteristics. would chip win a top contest with no practice - no, but not because he did not have the tools to win. I do not want to conqure the world, just want to be in top 10 in my state and enjoy 3d flight with little or no practice, besides I do not have the time with 2 jobs. lets take a closer look at the lifer and the kid.

kid

- doesn't care what others think or say just wants to touch that tail.
- has possitive outlook, with no previous flying habbits to overcome
- has just one 3d type airplane, soon learns its flight characteristics, moves sticks before it is needed.
- trims that plane stable for 3d but unstable for level flight - this makes his goal much easier.
- got the airplane and radio for xmas, no money invested, no risk, no history of crashing to get in the way.
- since he didn't learn to look and react, his thumbs take over with a set routine and fly the airplane for him.
- is focused on just one thing, when he closes his eyes he sees that tail on the ground where it belongs.

lifer

- likes 3d but is happy flying around straight and level most of the time
- has many airplanes to choose from, flys something different every weekend
- his 3d airplane is trim for level flight at 1/2 throttle hands off - that is just great
- trys to hover but soon becomes frustrated and scared remembering that bad crash 3 years ago while trying to hover.
- uses input then release style of flying, this has worked for years
- when he closes his eyes he sees wife at home in bathing suit with pizza on the table.


a friend of mine has great advice - eveytime out push yourself, don't become complacent or content at any level. stick with one good 3d airplane and fly it like you stold it. take some risk, when you accomplish a maneuver you will say "that sure is easy" and will move on to the next level. attitude is everything, don't carry around heavy baggage, take some risk, it is not that difficult even for an old guy like me

Well, its nice to see that our time and effort has been so well recieved. Perhaps G2 will develop an add on that will help instill a little common sense. Joe

If Your trying to learn 3D.Try the Ikirus Pro for a sim.

Vittorio,

Congradulations on your success and welcome to the next level.

[8D]Hi people

Dear "Cumn thru", you wrote

[color=blue]"Well, its nice to see that our time and effort has been so well recieved. Perhaps G2 will develop an add on that will help instill a little common sense. Joe "

[color=green]Peace, I have appreciate the suggestions of all you 3D experts. Some simple advice has been very precious.
Others, like Pizza's retiming, I haven't understood.

Thank you, Errolw98, for the congratulations.

[&:][color=red]I have visited the "simulators topic" and the most flyers say that Aerofly Professional is better than Real Flight G2.

I don't think the things are like this. REAL FLIGHT G2 requires 600 Mb of hard disk space, while AEROFLY 150 Mb.
Only for the better graphics? I can't believe it.

[8D]Perhaps REAL FLIGHT G2 is more difficult to set up correctly because has more options.
I steel don't know it very well, but you can decide the weight of fuselage, of wings, the inertia along the 3 axles, the width of control surfaces, the percentages and the degrees of movable surfaces, the lenght of fuselage and of wings, the direction of wind and so on.
I think that operating on theese parameters we can realize a plane almost like our real one.

[&:][color=blue]Is there anyone who can help us 3D beginners to set up the "Extra Special" correctly?

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

A simulator and actual flying is like comparing the webb site Danni's hard drive to actual sex.
It's close but it's not the real thing.

[8D][size=4]Hi people

[color=blue]Dear Zpat,

[:@]You "Experts" are too presumptuous. You consider yourselves superior to all other flyers. Only you are the best.

Also in Italy when a beginner ask for help at the field, you "Experts" stand on ceremony.

[size=5]Why? Are you jealous? Are you afraid that a beginner can overcome you?

You are not very pleasant with beginners especially at the field.

[:@]You can't teach and you don't want to teach because you are too superior.

No one had the humility till now to tell us beginners how to set up the plane on REAL FLIGHT G2.

IT WOULD NEED A LOT OF TIME, BUT YOU ARE SO SUPERIOR FOR THIS.

PATIENCE

[COLOR=GREEN]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country.

ALRIGHTY THEN???????I guess I'll call the students I trained last summer and tell them they all suck.... I just wish they where not all good friends of mine now, BUT hey I'm SUPERIOR now so I guess it's ok GET A DAMN CLUE Italian-flyer. I'M DONE WITH THIS THREAD BECAUSE THIS GUY IS BEYOND HELP. HE ASKS A QUESTION AND INSULTS US BECAUSE HE KNOWS BETTER THAN OUR ANSWERS ........ SO WHY THE HELL DID YOU ASK IN THE FIRST PLACE. DO A SEARCH ON THE WEB. IT WORKS FOR US SUPERIOR PEOPLE SO GROW UP AND DO SOME RESEARCH.

It's not often someone pisses me off.

I don't have a simulator, and the ones I have used I find boring, including the G2.

I don't claim to be an expert. I have been flying R/C for 20 years.

I have found that beginners who do use a simulator are much easier to teach than those who have never used one.

[size=4][8D]Hi people

[color=blue]Peace Dauntae,

Our planes are only toys, we must not quarrel for some sophisticated toys.

Perhaps I can't understand American very well, perhaps I misunderstand your answers.

[:@][color=red]But, I ask a thing and you answer a lot of other things.

[&:]I can't understand you.

[:@]IF YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOTHING ABOUT MY QUESTIONS, DON'T ANSWER, BE QUIET.

I will learn by myself, not [:@]practicing, practicing, practicing, crashing, building, crashing, building, but learning to use my simulator Real Flight G2 to build a plane almost like my "Modeltech Magic 3D", not [:@]burning and burning fuel, but flying on the screen with my favourite music.

[color=green]Vittorio from Italy[sm=sunsmiley.gif]a beautiful country

V, you are funny. Which ever way you choose to go about this, then continue. Do what ever it takes on that simulator to achieve your goals. If no one can answer your questions, then you must experiment untill you find it. Good luck, Joe

Yo, Italian Flyer, Peace!! You's is seriously contradicting yourself. On one post you thank the experts for helping you and on another you imply that they're too arogant to help you. Wadda' you trolling?

Have you considered for a minute that those who have posted actual information, can't possibly be as arogant, as you imply? Afterall, if they were, they would've chosen not to help you to begin with (such as I have done).

Here's my suggestion/contradiction. Don't take anybody's advice. It's not gonna' help you cause it seems that you know more than the "experts" do NEways, so why you askin. As Pizza states, they're are some that get it and they're are some that don't. Perhaps you should determine your own category.

IMO, I'm glad that you've chosen to post this thread. At least I can say that I've certainly learned alot from it myself.

Oh, and just so that I'm not mistaken for an "arogant expert", congratulations on your achievement.

I didn't get to this without PRACTICE! I would suggest that it is the nature of humans to not be able to hold a extremely high level of concentration for more then 15 minutes. That would be the level of concentration needed by a person learning TR's. Once it is mastered, it is mostly a conditioned reflex. The Simulator is a great option for those days ruined by wind/snow/rain/fog/exwife. enjoy...
stats Chief Aircraft katana w/OS 1.60 and perry pump and bisson pitts muffler. FUTABA 9 ZAP to drive it!!

back_it_up.zip

You can retrieve this file at http://141.248.186.227/asisite/upload/2952

The userid is: asi2952

The password is: satcom

Right click on the file in your browser and select -Save Link As- to download.

The file will be deleted after 72 hours.

another good resource is http://www.aero3d.net
you can go here and download planes already set up... wish I had a model that flew like the "VIRTUAL" Chip Hyde Ultimate!!!

Aw, c'mon mithrandir, you know you did'nt practice to do do that. Who you tryin' to kid. Someone simply explained it to you that very morning before you went to the feild, then you simply applied it. Why do you gotta' be so arogant?

Here, I'll prove it to you. I'm gonna' log off and go get my 3D for dummies manual, then I'll "implement" (not practice) it onto the allmighty G2 for about a minute and a half.

Be right back...

Ok, now I'm out at the field w/ my laptop and cellular phone w/ photo capability and I'm gonna try what I just learnt to do by reding and "implementing" just a few seconds ago.

Ready...Voiala!

Hey Johnny.... I could see that happening!!! LOL... the biggest trick to 3D is coordinating closing your eyes with pushing the sticks in the corner!!! LOL

Italian-Flyer... maybe this will help?...

http://www.worldlingo.com/wl/translate
Another step forward for me in the case of Torque Rolls is this. Recognizing what control will fix the problem when the plane gets to where the fix will be a fix. "HUH?" you say... let me explain... lets say you are doin this *****in' TR. you notice it is not vertical due to a YAW upset. Do you fix this with rudder? Prob'ly not... WHY?... because of our old friend "TIME". If you see it is off in a yaw direction, in the time it takes for you to see it, recognize it, respond at the transmitter, respond at the servo, a half second has transpired... it aint a yaw upset anymore.. its a pitch upset... Kinda weird, but with time you get it.

I fly mode 1 also... we call rolling circles "Stirring Paint". The left hand ,elev and rudder, is basically moving in an elliptical pattern. Rolling circles require small elevator and lots of rudder. As the "Alphas" and "Betas" become larger, so do the amounts of elevator (Usually power is much reduced here to prevent climbing), and this becomes a rolling circular harrier. You must learn to "Keep the nose committed UP". (Towards the sky)

Who cares what mode though... Curtis Youngblood flies single stick!!!

hugs and kisses!!!

read this one too if you live in southern california...
http://www.radiocontrolzone.com/foru...hreadid=157719

Hey Johnny.... Potrei vedere quello accadere!!! LOL... il trucco più grande a 3D sta coordinando chiudendo i vostri occhi
con la spinta dei bastoni nel angolo!!! LOL

Italiano-Aletta di filatoio... forse questo aiuterÃ*?...

http://WWW.worldlingo.com/wl/translate

Volo il modo 1 inoltre... denominiamo i cerchi di rolling "che mescolano la vernice". La mano sinistra,elev e timone, sta muovendosi basicamente in un modello ellittico. I cerchi di rolling richiedono il piccoli elevatore e lotti del
timone. Come "l'alfa" e "Betas" diventi più grande, così faccia gli importi dell'elevatore (l'alimentazione molto è
ridotta solitamente qui evitare l'ascensione), e questo si transforma in in un harrier della circonvallazione di
rolling.

hugs e baci!!!

Italian-flyer

Forse ci è un'edizione di comunicazione in questione.

Le risposte che sono state date voi, erano in effetti i suggerimenti dei produttori per aiutarli nella
vostra ricerca.

La vostra risposta a loro ha implicato che fossero non soltanto
inesatti con il loro consiglio, ma ignaro e conceited pure.

Forse voi potrebbe determinare tranquillamente e gentilmente quali
informazione potreste usare dalle risposte e semplicemente ringraziare
ognuno per il loro input.

È tutto il buon fratello, e se non conoscete precisamente che cosa state facendo, allora provilo tutto fuori in moda da poterli impararli ed allora passare voi avanti.

APRA LA VOSTRA MENTE...ma non troppo, il vostro cervello ha potuto cadere da.