Joe. Are you sure your engine is properly tuned? I have the same setup as you and my UCD will hover 1 or 2 clicks above half throttle. Upon jamming it to full throttle my UCD pulls out quite nicely.

Well, thats another thing I'm dealing with since the installation of the Cline regulator not knowing what to expect and how this setup effects the carb settings. Only got out three times with the weather and all. I know that I read that some have their high end at about 2 3/4 turns out. Mine is still at 1 1/2 turns and did not address the low end yet. Runs very smooth with quick transition to date. When installed, how did it effect your low end and what are your current high end settings? Thanks, Joe

Since you guys are talking engine issues here. I have this new Saito in my plane with the tank in the nose, no pump. It 3D's GREAT but when I get a waterfall really cooking it will go deadstick on me while inverted at some point almost everytime. It will ke spin, blender with great inverted flat spin, even pseudo lomcevak with no engine problems. But you start it flipping over and over in a waterfall, it may be the 3d or 10th or 30th rotation but eventually the engine will die. Any suggestions?

My High end needle is about 2.25 turns out with the cline. The cline really flattens out your high end needle. One or 2 clicks seem to make less of a difference with the cline. As far as the low end is concerned I can't remember how many turns it is out, but I can tell you that it tuned in very easily. I turned it in in 1/8th increments until it transistioned smoothly. It's got a great transition.

What kind of RPM numbers are you getting?

Loaned the tach out months ago, its 40 minutes away. If I hit it right someone may have one at the field to get a quick read. As far as setting and testing, I really don't like to conduct that type of maintenance at the field if its busy. Saftey and concentration issues. Joe

Ned, if the fuel can't keep up with the clunk rattling around in the tank at some point you may be grabbing a little air. Just enough to cause that little air pocket in the fuel line and it dies before more fuel gets up there again. Now I don't know where you would put it, but heli pilots sometimes incorporate a little secondary tank. Its about 2 oz. or so. The way its set up is that it is always full from the pressure. Like a resevior between tank and carb. First off I would try some of those violent manuvers with a knowingly full tank to see what happens. Joe

BigNed, how much time on the engine, how full is the tank when you start doing the waterfalls? Are you doing full throttle waterfalls or backing off on the down side? Every maneuver you listed but the waterfall keeps the clunk in the fuel all the time. It also may be that the engine is just so new its not adjusted out completely yet.

If you have'nt tried it yet do it on a full tank and see if there is a difference.

Ed M.

The engine has about 30 flights on it, plus break in.
I dont know that I have taken off and immediately proceeded into a waterfall but I know I have done them with probably 3/4-7/8 of a tankfull. Should they be done on a full tank??
I am doing them at 3/4-full throttle to maintain the tightest pivot I can get. Im not rotating on an axis through the wingtips but the nose is definitely chasing the tail full throttle. Is it possible to adjust this out on a Saito 1.20 engine??, my OS didnt do it but of course it was a .91 so there wasnt as much centrifugal force since rotation was not as tight with a smaller, less powerful engine. OR will putting the tank on the CG and getting a pump do it? Thanks in advance for the help and please feel free to suggest any solutions or point out anything I am doing wrong.


Mike

Mike, I wouldn't want to recomend something to find out your just chaseing your tail, but since installing the Cline regulator, the improvement is just short of amasing. I thought the engine was running good before. Now its noticably smoother with a nice even, low idle. I'm still not sure how well mine is dialed in yet, but it runs great. Joe

I havent ever used an external "cline" pump, where do you get the best deals on them?

Only one place for the Cline regulator, Cline and assc. Owned by Jim Cline. www.billsroom.com/pcfs/ There are manufacturers of pumps as well, Perry is one of them, somebody else may give you the lowdown on pumps. I havn't any personel experience with them. This regulator is my first, so far I'm happy, even with the $60.00 price tag. Joe

Thanks Joe,
I would have never found it!

Mike

Don't think you are doing anything wrong. 30 + flights should have the engine good to go. While the regulator may cover up the problem they will work even better when there is no prblem to begin with. A few more questions, does it just die quickly, stutter a few times and die, or does the power fade to nothing before it quits? Also, have you flown it with the cowl off to make usre it was not an overheat situation?

Ed M.

Ed,
I didnt fly it with the cowl off the 1st few flights and it did the same thing. If I dont waterfall I can run it hard for about 20 minutes doing allsorts of maneuvers no problem. Doesnt appear to overheat and will idle in at about 2200rpms on landing with ease if I dont kill it in a waterfall.
To answer your question when the plane goes to inverted at the bottom of the maneuver the engine just fades out. No stuttering or acting up, no sudden death. I calling mudding out, the engine rapidly decelerates..... hangs on for a split second and then just quits. Could there be a carburetor adjustment I need to make. Im open about 2.5 rounds on the needle valve and its smoking pretty good just to be sure Im not too lean.

Help.[&o]

Mike

hello BigNed can you run it more reacher about 1/4 or 1/2 . Or have some friends hold the plane straight up , then you can ajust the needle so it doesn't lean out. but on a level flight it will run reach, thats how my plane flys. And haven't touch it yet. My eng. is 2 str, and i'am useing 4str, fuel.

I'm getting ready to buy one with a ys 91in it. the motor has a pump and runs very smooth. any angle the motor settings don't change. upright inverted up down the same. its pretty neat how well it works without any accesories like regulators

Mike, I would open it a couple of clicks and try it again. Most of the 4 strokes can smoke like a coal fired train and still be a little lean at times.

Ed M.

Is it possible that the fuel line to your clunk is too long?

Mike, one other thing, is the crankcase vent nipple dumped thru a short piece of large fuel tubing? Some Saito's seem to be very touchy concerning the amount of back pressure they will tolerate in the crankcase. This could be very true in the case with a newer engine, a little rich, generating a lot of oil in the crankcase and it might be coming out in a big gulp which would block off the breather tube for a short while. Have not seen this cause one to go dead yet, but I have seen it cause the engine to fall on its face performance wise.

Ed M.

All you guys having spool up problems is due to the nitro you are running. I have the 16x4W APC on my Saito 100 and have since day one a year ago. It spools up almost instantly. I run Cool Power 30% Helicopter fuel in mine. 15% won't cut it with that prop you are right. And yes, it is like stepping on the brakes with a 16x4. I love it. Hovers at less than 1/3 throttle and hovering is not the easiest as it wants to climb. Climbs as fast as it flys level. I can get 9,900-10,000 on with a 16x4 and CP 30%. You guys running 15% do need to go to the 15x4. I am a heli pilot mainly and run it and did not want to have two jugs of fuel with me at the field and come to find out how much my plank engines (Saito and YS's) love the same fuel. I knew the YS's did, but come to find out Horizon says to run it in Saito's if you want more power.

I ran a 15x6. I get about identical RPM's but it pulls it too fast for my liking. This thing screams for pulling power not speed. I will do things with this prop that it won't with any other or it does them better. Slow stuff is much better as the thrust is higher.

Norman Ross

Contempo, Any more results from the modified rudder? Now that I've got my thrust angle dialed in, 4 degrees right on Saito 100 with 15/4 prop, I've had a chance to play around a bit. On the past UCDs I tried Knife edge with varying results, on this one, even on low rate rudder it dives to the deck severly. I can easily compensate for this on other models, but the inputs required on this one are extreme. I thought that you may have had a chance to get comfortable with the new mods and wondered if you are still of the same opinion on the rudder as when you first tested it out. Thanks, Joe

Joe,

I was finally able to get some serious stick time in on the new "Crest #2" this past weekend. Every time I fly this bird, I like it more! The new rudder design has really improved the performance of this airframe. Upright flat spins are now not only possible, but pretty easy to do. Knife edge is now possible. It still wants to pull to the gear, but I am able to corrrect with minimal elevator input. No aileron correction is needed (strange, but true). The Y.S. 1.10 has also helped to bring this thing to life! Can you say climbing inverted flat spin! I am working on knife edge spins now. The plane is capable, the pilot needs some work.

Contempo, on comparing your rudder mods to the stock rudder it does not appear that you have removed all that much, but attest to a significant difference. On the stock rudder, the counter balance area alone is app. 29.5 sq. in. Now this considerably large flag, starts app. 5" above the thrust line of the fuse and seems to be a big factor in the way it twists the plane out of normal movement. I was wondering how it would be affected by removing the entire counter balance area. There would still be 54 sq. in. of rudder area left. It seems that an equal amount of rudder, above and below the horizontal axis, would distribute the flow of control without forcing the plane one way or the other. Any thoughts? Joe

Joe,

The area is about the same, just distributed differently. The rudder is not as tall as the original but is about .75" wider. The rudder also extends down flush with the fuse instead of angling up like the stock one. I have to confess that I used the "TLAR" method. I can send you a .dxf file of the rudder plans for you to print out and compare to the original. I must say I was surprised at the difference such relatively small changes made.

Anybody getting any cracks in the fuse sides, at the forward lower corners of where the hoizontal stab mounts? This is the second one it has happened to, both are second year production models. Seems like the first year had other issues, but this was not one of them. It dosn't appear that the light ply underneath is broke, just like stress cracks in the balsa sheeting and the mono bursts. Could be from running it down the strip on only its rear wheel. Its an easy fix, just curious to see if mine are the only ones. If I have to start tearing off mono, I might not stop and do a recover. Joe