HI guys, thought id drop in and say HI!!

WOW Rob is a teacher now, leave for a few days and i fall behindcongrats Rob, i have a ball showing people how my planes work, a lot of people stop by but when i tell them how mmuch mmoney i have i have in this they all turn shy

glad your getting some progress Ron, man, you have more patience than me, id have sho----well maybe i better not

and Doug, you know Barry is a volcano of knowledge just spewing forth a steady stream of great stuff[X(]

im just sitting here waiting for new bearings for my 100 and 125, thats right the bearings in my NEW 125 have already went sour, fo im getting them all cleaned up and ready to go again.

opps, how did that LOW inverted pass get in there[X(]

Which bearings went bad in your 125. My first 125 developed a real bad squeal after about 1 gal of fuel. I dont know which bearing went, but the hobby shop gave me a new one. I have it on the test stand now, breaking it in.
Jerry

the rear Jerry, ive developed an ear for bad bearings, the wizzing sound i can hear when it first starts, pulled the cylinder and rear cover and i was right, wiggled the crank and i could see the play in the rear so i pulled it and sure enough, glad i got it before it started distributing metal shavings, have new ones comming, i dont know why it went, i had about 4-5 gallons thru it and i use powermaster 15% with half castor as oil and run it dry each session and pump it full of aro and didnt want to wait on shipping to horizon because i can do it myself in 1/4 the time. i like flying, not waiting on repairs

one more thing Jerry, when you break this one in make sure you have it plenty rich, oil going everywhere, i think mine may have been a little lean, even at 5 turns out on the main and the low set at factory, i didnt have oil all over with this and i did on my 100. just a thought

Thanks Gary. Good to hear from you. Sorry to hear about your 125 and 100 bearings. What happened? ......... Hey! How did that picture get in there? [>:] I'll be flying like that soon. [8D] I'll be heading to Mexico at the end of the week for a week so I'll be off the air and out of the air for a bit.

Hey Gary... Sorry about your bearings.... I may have the same problem on
my 100??? Or I caused something else to go wrong when the "Do" went in..
I installed it on my 4*, she started and ran OK, But it sounded different.. So
I'm thinking about taking mine apart or sending it in... Was that your crank/
bearing puller next to your engine in the pic before the anti-freeze bath??

gjeffers
Tell us about this bearing thing. Were the bearings discolored or were there sign of rust? Man I have a new 125 sitting here, don't scare me about bearing problems.
Great shot of inverted pass by the way.

Barry Taking your advice. Scary idea. Ordered a new Saito 82 for my UCD, the 80 will be coming out and go on Ebay directly. No more buying older engines at great prices for me. 3 oz less wt., 20% more power. Can't wait till snow quits. Have you had any bearing problems running that 30% fuel?


Doug


Keep your head down or get a haircut.

Gary, I guess I can say it here, and not in Club Saito, and get away with it. I've heard of more problems and have HAD more problems with Saitos than any other engine, 2 or 4 stroke. I've had my 82a, which is running fine just now (15 hrs flight time), back to the factory twice. Horizon Hobbies fixed the problems: first time they rebuilt the engine after about 5 hours flight time, no comments: second time they replaced the bearings and said they found rust, so the warranty really DIDN'T apply, "please use ARO," but they charged me nothing anyway. Nice guys, but the down time on that engine was terrible--for someone who flies almost every day.

The Saito 1.0 has crapped out on me, twice, in the air, probably a cowl heating problem or a fine tuning problem, but the end result was the P-51D and the UCD .60 both went in hard. The P-51 was circling on a low approach for landing, big mistake. I didn't have the speed to get her down safely--and not enough time with the bird to know what I needed--without power. The Can Do's problem was that inevitable floating. Dead stick, she was heading for a fence. I made a quick decision and bounced her hard before the fence, lost the landing gear, pants through the wings, and broke her back. She's ready to fly again but that's over $500 of airframes done in by a $280 engine. Why should I buy another?

They are messy as heck and always thirsty, uneconomical, without a velocity stack and Bruline filter (which Saito OUGHT to provide). I haven't had the 1.0 on the Can Do .60 up for a loooong time, too long for such an expensive engine--though it, too, has the velocity stack and filter on it.

I must say, admit, that I may be the problem. There's lots to learn about those 4 strokes, mounting and tuning--and the answers are not consistent. I asked my Wildcat fuel provider, the manufacturer, no less, if I should use ARO with Wildcat fuels (15% Premium Xtra {80%synthetic/20% degummed racing castor}). He said, "We don't recommend it." THEN I told him about the bad bearings in the 82a.

But now I use auto trans fluid (ATF) for after run oil and run the engine dry, then some, before I apply the oil. They SAY those Saitos should run 30 hours before servicing. That's $9.33/ flight hour! Club Saito talks of replacing bearings with ceramic bearings when they need them and discuss endless other problems. I don't want to rebuild engines. I want to fly! My OS 61FX engine, almost two years old, has probably more than a 100 hours on it, three crashes in three different birds, and still keeps running. That's a buck 70/hour--and going down every day.

Do we really love the sound and torque that much? I'd be happy to hear disagreement, but talk in terms of hours in the air--not length of ownership. Who has a Saito that has had more than 50 hours in the air without being rebuilt? 100 hours? 150?

Sorry for this, but I get ticked off.

Jack

WoW take up knitting dude! Ive got a Saito with around 30 gallons of 30% heli fuel through it. adjusted the valves a couple times. Its all in the tuning or lack there of, some people need needle limited. I'm sure you'd be happy with the evolution line, or the OS AXI.

Why didn't you flip the spoilers on the U can't do 3d to kill lift? Bump some down trim in the P51? 99.9% of dead stick crashes can be avoided. Don't blame stuff for you own shortcomings.

One happy Saito owner! Yes I'll continue to pay for the sound and torque, cuz i likes it

Jack211 That's a mouth full. Sorry for your bad luck (I hope). I agree that the tuning & set-up for four stroke is more critical than two stroke. My ear is not good enought to set the high-end of my Saito. I use a tach and have found that I was running lean alot of the time. If it quits in the air at anything above an idle, its to lean, to hot, or fuel supply problem. Too rich of a top end should never quit in air. Also from my communication with Joe Wagner who writes for Model Mag. He does not recommend Trans fluid for ARO. If transmission fluids temperature exceeds about 350 degrees F, it deteriorates and loses its lubricity, and the combustion chamber gets way hotter than that. Just a thought.


Doug

I have a Saito 125 with 35 minutes time on it. No problems whatsoever. Great engines.

Dougwill... I use 30% in everything I fly now. It has 22% oil content. I don't use afterrun oil and I've had good luck. No bearing problems. Knock on wood.

Thanks
Barry

Barry Cazier what props are you using on Saito 82, 100, & 125?


Doug[&:]

hey Doug, while not addressed to me I use an APC 14x4W on the 82 and an APC 15x4W on the 100. (?) Sorry, I meant to say 15x4w on the 91. My brains going out.....

Dougwill...

I use 14x4W on 82, 16x4W on 100, 16x6 on 125. All are APC.

Thanks
Barry

WOW,dint mean to stirr all that up

ill try to answer most of the Q's

first Ron, yes, that is my bearing pusher(i do have a wooden dowl in front though)

Doug, there was no rust, the more i think about it it was that the low speed needle was not far enough out from factory and i broke it in lean, it was out 4 turns but when i started leaning it down after a gallon thru it it died on idle after i screwed it in just half a turn, what im saying is this thing dies on idle if i screw the needle in to 3 1/2 turns out, it should run in more than that imo. i think the 125 is a great engine and i wont give up on it just yet

Jack, i dont know or have the time to address your issues, id just say buy more os's, sounds like they work for you.i have had my saitos deadstick one time on me out of hundreds of flights(400-500) and my 100 has almost all those flights in my ucd 46(god rest its soul)so to be short, my 100 was a great running and lasting engine, this 125 problem is a fluke imo and will be a great engine also after i can get some ceramics in it(they dont make them yet)

bring that ucd with ya Rob and stop by and see us, im a little out of the way, but it looks like mexico here too

hey guys, found a great new weather forcast for winds(and all)just thought id share in case you guys dont have this one

http://usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/c...t=Get+Forecast

Doug, from day one I used a tach for my Saitos, not trusting to my ear, and went by the book, plus info from a Saito site on line, breaking in and tuning. I broke the 100 in on the bench for 40 minutes, reset the valves, then set both the high and low ends. I RECALL setting the engine rich on the high end--just for the P-51's cowling, and THAT engine was below the centerline of the fuel tank, too, so should've been rich if anything, low end, but I suspect it was the low end that made it flame out, maybe I set the idle too low--though I doubt that since the P-51 would walk away from me when I put it on the grass. It's a mystery. And I don't like that kind of mystery.

Bill Robison, a man I trust, from the Saito Club forum suggests the ATF ARO. Remember, the ATF is just afterrun oil. It evacuates almost immediately, flushed by castor, when the engine is started, hm? So temps ought NOT be a concern or problem.

The ATF is good because, I'm told, it somehow absorbs the residual (and atmospheric, in the hangar) moisture in the engine's guts, defeating the creation of the corrosive acids which cause the ruination of steel bearings, cams, et al.

J.

It does look like Mexico!! How about that! I wouldn't have known the difference......... except they don't have as good a pilots as you. [8D] I doubt that they ever fly inverted. The tequilla doesn't allow that......[:-] Well, not intentionally anyway.

I had 3 Saitos and 2 of them needed bearings within 3 months. I sent them back,didnt want to risk further damage with fairly expensive engines. It seemed like they went after switching to 20-30% nitro,I didnt use ARO,hard to put it in right with the carb located in back and inside the cowel. The fuel I used had 20% oil and I always run 'em dry after emptying the tank. After reflecting back into the past,I will give up on the 4-strokers and keep my 2-strks.At least I can fix them myself,quickly,cheaper with after market bearings, but I havent had premature bearing failures with the 2-strks.(OS) I'm going to keep 1 glow(60UCD) and move to gas,plenty to choose from now a days.

gjeffers
Is that anti-freeze that you are using as engine cleaner? Temp important to cleaning process? How difficult is it to disassemble a Saito?


Doug

Hey Gary.. Did you use your bearing pusher to get your prop hub off also?? Or
did you have a puller?? Did you oven bake the engine before removing the crank?
Or just use that good'ol tool..
I ordered some ceramic's with seals should be here shortly.. Are you going to go
seal / shield- less on the rear bearing?? Still need to order a gasket and seal set..
Many said to just use what I have... How about you??

Hey B Good.... Great weather coming.... That is until the Monster Heat arrives...

yes Doug, prestone is the antifreeze of choice and temp is important to keep from discoloring the aluminum(wow i think i spelled it right)
disassembly dificulty depends on your expeirence, i will give you a link to bill robisons post on how to below.
it is a post on how to replace bearings. if you need to do more let me know, i just did my cam, lifters,push rods, valve springs and bearings and it all worked out fine, just fired her up and man did she purr

i used a two arm puller and just put the grabbers in the groove that is right in the middle of the hub.
bake the case at 250 for 20 minuits and use a wooden dowl with a HAMMER to knock them out and have the new bearings ready to go in and you only have to heat it once, just put the front in first and then put the rear on the crank and then put it in(that way the front keeps the rear in line) and use the wooden dowl to tap it in. see the puller in the pic below Ron.

go with this set and order double seal on the front,(no seal on the rear)

http://www.mcintoshcentral.com/rc-be...cd00e8dfc4487d

dougl, here is bill method.scrool down to william robisons post.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_33...tm.htm#3631315

Thanks Gary, I'm not sure what I'll find.. So really not sure how deep I have to go.. I think
the top half is OK, So I'm just going to pull it and leave the piston in..(will see) I believe it's
just the bearings, and/or crank(but I didn't say that...) My bearings came today(RC bearings)..
So I may start soon. I've seen that type of pullers, The only one I have is to big, But I'll find
one or make do with something... I also got some info from Bill...

Well, going to hit the sack.... I'll be in my first combat in the am))

I have $$$$ from the P.O. YeeePeee

i just finished putting the bearings in my 125 Ron and i didnt even need to use a hammer on the main just pushed the crank (with the bearing on it) right on in, man what a piece of cake,

Ps. just make sure that you dont screw up the seal on the front bearing when knocking it home[X(].i cut the end of a wooden broom handle,(a dowl the size of the bearing would be better) to knock it in.(not hatd)

both 100 and 125 ran great when i fired them up WHEW!!!!!