Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

It's completely fair. That emergency didn't have to end in tragic results. Since we're talking about all encompassing safety, why don't planes have horns?

Secondly, what caused the emergency in the first place and what is being done to prevent it from occurring in the future?

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

That is because he wants the restriction. So now he is reaching to find data to support his argument to support one. There have been no incidents, so there is no argument.

It is important to separate the FPV technology from the LOS. Even if the recent close encounters with full scale and "drones" are true, they were FPV models, and not LOS. So those statistics cannot be included in your argument.

The incident here in CO with the biplane really cannot be used, as the 2 aircraft were part of the same show. It was not a random incident of a guy out flying his RC plane and the full scale happening by.

jelge

Assuming the pilot did not see the people walking on the beach, where would you have had him land? He was at pattern height (1,000 ft) so he didn't have a lot of time to sort it out.

Water and dunes are both dangerous. According to the NTSB report, he actually landed in the water near the beach and did not know he hit anyone until after he was climbing out of the aircraft. They do not know why the aircraft lost power. There was plenty of fuel on board and they were able to start it after it the accident.

additional info: A PA-28 with a dead engine at 1,000 will hit the ground in about a half mile (maybe further depending on the airspeed when the failure occurred) whether the pilot wants it to or not. Best glide speed for maximum distance will be around 80 mph. Time for choosing a landing site will be reduced because the pilot will likely attempt a restart before committing to an off airport landing or crash. Turning will reduce the distance.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Can you find one occurring in the United States involving a LOS model? You are having to dig really deep to find very few incidence, which in my mind does not justify a rule or law.

As I said, why don't we just drop all speed limits to 25 mph? It would be safer. It is not practical, reasonable, or necessary, that is why. You have not found enough incidents to support such altitude restrictions in my mind.

Not really sure how any of this effects you downunder anyway. We are talking about the AMA and the FAA in the U.S. You guys make up your own rules, and we will make up ours.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

As expected.....

init4fun

Hi Chris ,

Have ya ever driven in a place like Boston ? A horn is usually just an invitation to see someone's middle finger and no one here heeds a horn any more than anyone uses a blinker . In fact , horns & blinkers are seen as signs of weakness and invite being cut off by every car whose driver is looking for a place to cut the line . It's why all our construction sites have to have actual police officers directing the traffic . A civilian "flag man" ? If the guy ain't got a badge and a gun the country's proudly worst aggressive drivers would run right over a flag man and not think twice .

I know you were only half serious whit the horn thing , but when you come right down to it , your right , aircraft ARE the only man made giant machinery I know of without one ! Even the machines in factorys always have warning horns prior to starting up , as of course do boats & trains & pretty much everything else other than aircraft .

Be a good trivia question to stump someone with .

franklin_m

I was being generous about AG aircraft. In California's central valley, I doubt they every go above 500, as they go from airfield, to farm field, to farm field, to airport.

franklin_m

Yes...I believe size and speed of some of these "hobby" sUAS represent a significant danger to people in the air and on the ground.

jelge

Horns add weight and they are of no use in the normal operational safety of an aircraft. The more weight you can keep off the airplane the better. Just like the models, you avoid installing equipment you don't need so it will fly better. Having said that, there is, or was, an experimental that had an air horn from a train. The owner claimed it was to run moose off the runway.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

What percentage of overall total weight would a horn have added to the aircraft in this incident?

Sounds like you're totally downplaying the fact that an innocent civilian was tragically killed and it doesn't appear any proactive action has taken place.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Interesting, yet you indicated earlier that you fly a 600 size heli and feel AMA insurance provides you zero value. How much potential energy are in those size rotor blades at flying RPM?

franklin_m

And that's the biggest I'd ever fly for that reason. Of note, I do not fly 3D or even aerobatics with helis. I also land if someone starts to walk within 100 feet.

jelge

You are driving down the highway and see an obstruction 20 seconds away. A couple of seconds later you realize you have no brakes so you try the parking brake but it has failed too. Re-evaluating you realize can either hit a tree to stop or skirt around the obstruction using the shoulder and coast to a stop down the road. The shoulder looks clear so you take that option rather than risk your life and destroy your $50K car. As you go ripping past the bicycle laying in the road you feel a "bump" on the right side and later find out you ran over and killed the person who fell off the bike and was partially obscured by the grass. Between dealing with the mechanical failure, avoiding the bike and trying to safely navigate the shoulder you really didn't have a chance to notice anything new. 100% your fault, right??? I mean you could have crashed your car instead. That is what people like you are going to claim after they read the story in the paper anyway.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Is flying style going to change the amount of potential energy in those blades? Those size blades are still going to have lethal energy. It would be impossible to identify anyone within a 100ft when flying that aircraft.

franklin_m

You should read a military flight mishap investigation. We're held to that standard - rightfully so. I'd argue the driver should know or expect bikes to be on the side of the road, and if the grass is so high you can't see a bike in it, then you shouldn't assume the area is clear.

franklin_m

Flying style defines the vectors of the blades coming off if they do. With 3D, they can come off in just about any plane. By flying scale, I limit the plane in which they could separate.

As for being "impossible to identify anyone within 100'", Why, can't you see that far? If I can't see an area 100' in all directions, then it's too small to fly. I fly so that it's all in front of me. Anything comes into my field of regard and I land. It's pretty easy actually. You just have to have enough cognitive ability to do more than one thing.

Remember, I was taught from a young age to aviate, navigate, communicate, and maintain situational awareness with someone screaming at me in the cockpit. So flying a heli and still having the ability to notice what's happening around me is pretty easy situational awareness.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

You do realize we're talking about aircraft and not motor vehicle accidents, right?

Why didn't the pilot land further out at sea? Was he more worried about his expensive plane getting damaged than killing an innocent civilian on the beach? The pilot survived right?

Maybe we need more full-scale regulations to protect those innocent lives on the ground.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

You have eyes in the back of your head? You said you fly at a public school. No one ever walks their dog there off leash?

If you're not using carbon blades what blades are you using?

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

Who said anything about blade separation? Ever hear of a fly away? Loss of radio? Mechanical failure? Battery failure? The list goes on and on.

franklin_m

I'll answer both posts. Yes, I fly at a school field that's big enough for me to see 100' in all directions from my heli. I'm not so overtasked flying mentally that I can't scan from time to time around me -- in the jet we call it mission cross check time. It's like a little alarm clock that goes off in your head every few seconds. I've been trained to do it for 20+ years and it works. Now maybe that's too much for you, in which case you probably need to plan for that and allow a lot more space, controls, or not fly. Even when I'm flying at a club field, I'm the guy that "notices" everything - cars driving up, out of control aircraft, etc. Again, decades of training to develop and maintain situational awareness in environments that are much more mentally tasking, where things move much faster, and where if you're wrong they send a chaplain to your house.

So yes, I can scan the area, maintain situational awareness, and if someone comes into the area at all, dog on or off leash, then I land. As for the other failures, they're prevented through thorough preflights, redundancy (in some cases), failsafes, and operational limits that allow if something does happen, it's damage to the aircraft only. In case you haven't noticed, helis are inherently unstable, and absent control and if at low altitude, they generally crash within a few rotor diameters if you lose signal.

And no...in over 10 years of flying so far, I've not had one flyaway. EVER. Because I know the limits of my equipment, expect failures, plan for them, and then impose on myself operational limitations that even if everything goes wrong at once, only the aircraft is destroyed.

jelge

YOU are the one comparing aircraft to other vehicles and equipment wanting horns and such. YOU are the one insisting the pilot should have risked killing himself for an unseen and unknown hazard. I find it highly doubtful you would have done differently. It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback and karma is *****. I hope you do not have find out what it is like to think you are in the clear only to find out differently afterwards then have everyone pick apart your actions without any pertinent information what so ever.

You seem to think I favor adding regulations. If that is the case... YOU ARE WRONG! Unfortunately the explosion of technology and the abuse of that technology is forcing the issue. I hate it when the majority is punished for the actions of a few.

jelge

I am very familiar with the military mind set. Even assisted with a couple of investigations. I retired 9 years ago. The FAA isn't much different. But you really should read my post again as you did not get the story even close to right. The end result would be the driver is at fault for hitting the person but not near as likely to be punished for it given the circumstances. Cops get shot and the shooters walk free legally if the situation supports it.

franklin_m

I apologize if I missed the point. In re-reading it, I suspect we're in agreement.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Just Boston...how about we say from mid Jersey on up to mid Maine?

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

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