I agree. I have been an AMA member since 1984. I am an advanced flier but I have seen these AMA clubs taking the hobby a little too seriously. Instead of making it fun it has become a place for people with nothing else to do to scare intimidate and eventually turm off prospective members. I joined a club that is shrinking but they cotinue to insist that to join you must be sponsered and attend atleast one meeting during the weekday. I travel all week am i to stop work for a week so I can become a member. I think not.

Also the liability insurance issue is harming the AMA. Ever seen the "progressive" insurance ad where this girl says i can get you a customized policy. The reason for that is that every flier does not need the same coverage. Some may need all some none and some in the middle.

We are going to have to look at this as a sport and invest in big areas like golf clubs and Shooting ranges where people pay and get a great experience. The hobby has continued to grow at the small plane and large plane level and actually no growth in the .40 to .60 size aircraft. So we have a large number of new comers and growing number of baby boomers moving into larger planes.

The new comers in the small plane area are mostly electric. Let me ask the question why not let clubs provide blanket coverage through regular insurance for these members as they pose very little risk with there small aircraft. Let the dues cover the cost of this insurance and let everybody have fun.

We should also be scrutinizing the dues paid to AMA. Has anyone ever questioned where the money goes and who controls it. Why can we not have a member owned AMA where the organization would answer to all. This way there would be accountability and these old outdated ideas would be jettisoned.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

That means that some would have to do without a little spare pocket money or fringe benefits....

You wanted to know why the AMA is not growing here's a couple of great reasons:
These "whiners" are the beginners trying to get into the hobby with out spending a fortune doing it. And when you respond like this when someone says that the price to get into the hobby is a bit high, this is a REALLY good reason as to why people don't want to join the AMA. Why would I want to be associated with people that think and say things like that?

You have one less new member here, and I can only imagine how many others have been turned off by similar comments.

I only fly about 4 times a year (used to fly four times a week)and I stopped going to my local club because membership became required in order to fly. I work swing shift and being in a club is next to imposible. 60 bucks plus another 20 is a lot for four flights a year. Now I go to a non santioned field about 25 miles away and have a lot more fun just flying by myself. Maybe the AMA shouldn't build million dollar facilities and charge crazy amounts to join. Not to mention that I highly doubt you could ever get them to pay on a claim to begin with. The club and the ama pretty much drove me out of this hobby. For now im still hanging in part time but I find it more dificult all the time with the economy and other needs to stay in the hobby.

Wait, I thought some here said AMA was a monopoly. How in the world can you be having fun in the hobby if the AMA is an all controlling monopoly and you aren't a member?? [sm=confused.gif]

<span style="font-size: larger;">A final response</span>

From what I understand there is an undertow of disenchantment regarding some of the practices of the AMA. To date I have little concern with their practices &amp; policies yet, if I did, I would be the first one to speak to a representative at the organization. We all have different needs based on the reaches of our hobby and it is up to the AMA and the local chapters to work together to produce the best possible results.

If we are not satisfied, perhaps we should look first into our local chapters and its people before laying blame on the organization as whole.


With that last thought I leave this thread with one more point to ponder:<span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">

</span><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">How can continued growth and preservation of our hobby be established when the the members of its own organization refuse to see eye-to-eye and refuse to establish a culture of learning and safety? It's worked for the hundreds of thousands of pilots involved with the EAA and AOPA since the dawn of aviation. Perhaps we should follow.</span></span>


Cheers All and we'll cu at the flying field.

Wow! Here we have almost 1,100 posts.

Can anyone summarize the complaints into a few, say five, concise statements?

Just something to unify the malcontents?

jess

Perhaps you could sum up what was in Post#1 and call him the initial malcontent.




Since Greg Hahn is clearly not satisfied with the bottomfeeding ways of folks and whined about it,
woundt that make him a malcontent?

OK fine I will take the heat as the "initial malcontent" but, that doesn't change the way I feel now or what I felt in 2004 when the original letter was sent to the AMA.

No one ever dreamed this would hit over 1100 post, but it did, proving one thing, the original letter had merit.

Don't write and tell me it's not over 1100 post, I was a CPA in a past life and for those that don't know, that stands for "CAN'T PASS ADDITION".

I rounded up.

No need to round up. I'm sure that if you counted the deleted posts it would have made it over 1100

hehehe....Driving ranges.....we used to fly at one years ago...thanks for the funny memory. I remember how it taught us to ignore little distractions....you know, like golf balls hitting you while you were flying.....I got nailed pretty good a few times. I'd encourage this path to ANY of these guys here who want to go out and show the AMA who is boss!

Personally, I can't think of a way to increase membership faster! Worked for ME!

The clubs go go out and do all you said, self-insure, all that stuff. The BIG issue is ALWAYS going to be that when these fine fellows who are insured at their home field go to other fields to fly they'll be asked for their AMA cards.

That was the reason that the AMA grew so quickly in the first place. One stop shopping.

All it takes is a few moment's of real thought and any rational person will see that the easiest way is ALWAYS going to be the AMA.

You can start your own field. You can fly there. You can insure yourself, or you can pay the 20 bucks to these newbies that RCU advertised here in the thread. And as long as you never have the urge to go to another field, you'll be fine. Change ANY of this a little bit and things can (and usually do) get complicated quickly. Sure, you might create a small network where you can exchange pilots back and forth under the USAMA or whatever it is.... It'll take some work and that'll cut into your flying time.

And you're locked in and it complicates any changes you wish to make.

AMA frustrates these guys because they have made it easy for everybody for a small fee. 58 bucks is a small fee. Filling my gas tank one time costs more. I can go coast-to-coast and fly at fields everywhere, actually further than coast-to-coast.

I never said you CAN'T do anything else. Heck, I've done it myself. Had my own field. Had fly-ins with other small fields. It was a lot of work and took a lot of time. We're ALL AMA members now. It's simple and easy.

That's all. No malice towards other situations, no hate, no attitude. I just know what works, and my time is worth something.

But you may not want to miss that experience of pulling a golf ball out of your fuselage!! It's something to tell the grandchildren some day!

Jimbo

Because we have small minds, and smaller...









...airplanes.[X(]

I'm sorry to hear that. You see I wouldn't let two strangers, who live thousands of miles away from me dictate how I enjoy my hobby. I listen to my COC and family when it comes to living my life as how I see fit in a civilized society, but to let two people on an internet forum tell me what to do or how to do it, is not something I would allow happen.

Frank

Nothing new. Many Clubs around my area have bought land and built flying facilities. Mostly financed by 1 or more club members that had a vision. I did that for my club some 14 years ago. As a financial investment, very few investments could have been worse. ( Investing in RC is kind of like investing in houses and lots: That is HOUSES of ill repute and LOTS of whiskey! )
Actually financial gain was NOT a consideration. A good model airplane club was the objective. 40-60 size models predominate however there is no shortage of BIG BIRDS. OTOH, electrics flourished for about 3 years, yet very few show up now. Two major pattern competition fliers went electric, now back to glow.

There is a cause of club decrease ala AMA decrease. Neither a club, or AMA can/will run itself like a business. Of course being business-wise is very difficult when one's product is mostly intangible. Conquering difficult tasks is rather out of style in this day and age.
faras, you joined RCU last Nov. You have made 9 views, and this is your first post. Methinks that had you been around for a couple years or even researched your subject only a small amount, you may well be ashamed to make such a statement and ask such a question as your last complete paragraph. Yessiree, it has been done very well. [sm=47_47.gif] You are a prime example of a 25 year AMA member that evidences absolutely no clue of that which herein you speak about.

Well, I've repeated myself about a THOUSAND times now, and so has everybody else in here. Nothing new has been said, and in fact, even the appearance of the magical competing AMA wanna-be company was really nothing more than a color bumper-sticker version of the vague plans of intent laid out by some of the posters here. It changed nothing, nor will it in the future.

I'm well-satisfied of several things.

First, the Pro-AMA folks who wish to enter and explore any intelligent discussion about why the AMA's growth has been affected will never, EVER find that on RCU, and most certainly not in this particular thread. That is my opinion. Sad, but by all indicators, quite true.

Second, nothing new will be said, whether I stay or go, or stop in occasionally. SSDD.

And third and last, that this thread should remain open forever to trap several of MY PERSONAL FAVORITE people who can't resist it here. And they and the REST of the 27 dissidents who MUST challenge the AMA can linger long and make good their plans!

Me, I'm gonna get a peanut-butter Samwich, full of vitamins B, 7, and 11...... (In the immortal words of Dennis the Menace.....).

And then make like a tree and get outta here. I know you'll all still be here, thinking of me and calling me names....very cool, and fun to boot. Your mamas will be proud.

Jimbo

Give me a break! Are you living in the dark ages. This has nothing to do with,"seeing eye to eye" or "safety".

It has to do with simple inclusion by understanding the underlying causes for dissatisfaction. You must be working for GM that was there philosophy...its not our car its the dumb consumer they need to buy American. Where has that led to ....end of of an American icon.

Please wakeup the nightmare is just beginning!

Cheers!

It is not working that is the problem! recall the orginal thread asked why is AMA not growing???!!!

Please help me understand which part of my analysis is incorrect. And this time use facts and figures like membership numbers by category.

I think you are an old man with very little understanding of the new world.

Cheers!

Guys,

Been a modeler as long as I can remember and a AMA member for almost as long.

To bring the young into the fold requires us to go and get them. In the real world kids today have so many opportunities for other hobbies that include doing all the good and bad that is out there.

This means we, and that means you the ones that have more money than they know what to do with along with the people that are in the sport barely need to go out and meet the youngsters and let them know what the sport is about. It is up to us to go and extend the hand of friendship to anyone that show the slightest interest.

Here is my example.....I grew up with a father that was not very good at showing love or being there when his son needed to know he meant something. I was told from a very young age that I would amount to nothing and did not have the brains to be more than a shoeshine boy.

My Mother, God rest her sole, believed in me and when I saw people flying controline models at one of the oldest clubs in central NJ, it was clear that I was excited and wnated to join the ranks. Because of her and a group of friendly young and old men, at the flying field, I experienced the beauty and developed a love of all things related to aviation.

My entire week during this time was constructed to be at the field on most saturdays and sundays flying the models that I built while I grew up. I spent time with men that helped shape me into the man I am today and I was able to resist drugs, drinking and criminal activity because they believed in me.

I still have, at 55, relationships with many of the guys from that time in my life and I cherish my memories of the flying, the contests, the excitement, the agony of defeat, the strength to carry on in the face of terrible odds and all the learning about aviation over the years.

It was said at the time that I knew more about aviation and could recall specifics of aircraft and the people that flew better than what I was learning in school at the time. But you know what.....it helped me to not be afraid to learn and get my education. Because I knew people believed in me and that I was loved.

Today I have a family and I am a devoted husband and father. I am now teaching my 12 year old daughter about aviation because one of the great things of being in the sport of model aviation is at 17 I became a general aviation pilot with an instrument and commercial rating awarded a few year later.

Again the reason I have the certificates is because of the sport of model aviation, people I met and my dear Mother. I was able to overcome a father that did not believe in me because they did!

If we want to grow we have to believe....

Nubbs AMA 12207

That's a great story about your own life's experience Nubbs.

To be optimistic, if you can introduce just 1 person into the sport that is great, especially if that person reaps the rewards of being in this hobby like you have.

To be realistic, you might as well try to sell ice to Eskimos, in most cases this sport sells itself or it doesn't, no amount of "evangelism" will change that fact to a large degree.

Cbt

I find it interesting how you think.

I agree to disagree...and here is why. I can't think of any successful person or organization that has made it unless they put out a lot of effort. That is what we need to do for the sport. And evangelism has nothing to do with it. What I can say with conviction is if we follow your basic premise that suggest we just sit back and watch what happens will lead to what we have today. Remember that doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of being nuts.

Again, I say we need to go out and help people find what makes our sport so good. I know you don't agree, but that is what makes me want to do more. I have been a club member at the Middlesex Modelers, Rocket City R/C Club and R/C World spanning 43 years. I have brought young people to the sport via flying demos both copter and fixed wing, electric and glow/gas and finally in full scale. I have taught more people than I can recall to fly and in fact I taught a 6 year old to fly a giant scale J-3 to fly with precision. I did it w/o a buddy box standing on my knees and now he is now a FO for JetBlue.

So my point is to get off the side lines and get into the game, yes?


Nubbs AMA 12207

Nubbs, I'm approached all the time by guys who see what I'm doing then say they want to do it themselves. I've offered and given my time to those who approach me for help getting started.
What seperates the wannabies from the guys who see it through is time, effort and money, none of which I provide for them.
Why do you feel it is so important to procelytise your relig....oops, I mean hobby?
I see this sane brand of zealousness in other pursuits as well.
Ever gone to dinner with a vegetarian?
I'd rather spend the free time that I have teaching youngsters how to swing a bat, judge a fly ball, kick a field goal or how to defend oneself in a fight instead of how to stand there with a radio and guide a plane.

Frank, do understand that I plan to stay in the hobby, but I can't bring myself to join a group of people that make comments such as the ones that were made and directed to me, at least not any time soon. At this point, it is not about the money because yes, I could afford the membership after I get paid this week. But I would rather use the majority of that money to go towards buying myself a nice new remote for my Car or Plane or a nice upgrade for my plane, instead of having to spend a good chunk of my hobby money on a license, which btw I still wouldn't be able to fly at my field becuase I would be cutting into my living expenses to pay for membership fees.

I feel there are a lot of things the AMA can do to cater to brining in new members, and what I am going to do when I get home is type up a list of all the ideas that could help bring new people in.


Nubbs

I was quite moved by your story, and I hope that one day when I visit home (I grew up in a little town called Port St. Lucie, Fl) I can sit down and have a chat with you about this hobby. Possibly even get a little flying in as well

CP,

Sorry to say, you are wrong. I work with kids involved in the PAL organization every year. Most didnt come to us to fly, we went to them. Its not evangelism, its not anything like that. Its adults reaching out to kids to help them find something they might like. I'm going to say it again as I have said before. I say the proof is in our results. We have had a lot of kids find the sport and stick with it through PAL. The money aspect is cheap. $300 bucks and a kid is in the air after he learns. They all learn on our dime and on our time, we donate it all. Its all part of being a mentor for todays youth. Believe it or not most of us who are sucessful all had a mentor in our life. Its how you learn and find things that you normally wouldnt find.

Flyerjoe,

Good for you. Great methods and as I just stated we all had a mentor at some point who helped us. Keep doing what your doing. The proof is in it.

I'm sure as has been the case through this whole thread, I will get some rambling, meaningless, hypothetical top down look on this telling me I am wrong.........I'm not. Spend some time with a kid and an airplane and see what happens...... Results are everything. Opinions are meaningless when you have great results.

103/17
AMA #4345