What would you consider a fair price to be? My club dues average 125.00 per year. Should the new group not be required to pay what it cost me to belong? Additionally, most of them have an initiation fee of $150.00. This is a one-time non refundable charge. Why is it there? Because the Board of Directors decided that this is what the cost would be. There is no negotiating of the charge. So that makes the new guy's start up cost $275.00. Are you guys willing to pay that amount? I seriously doubt it.

Bill, AMA 4720

Again Bill it's all based on supply and demand. Sounds like your club is expensive, but not unreasonable. But the only way to find out what the price should be is based on a bunch of math. First off you have to determine what the nut is going to be. That means the dollar amount the club must have to keep it's lease, pay rent, tax and other necessities. And then you add in your wishful luxuries. Now you have a dollar amount. Then you have to determine how many bodies you want to belong to the flying site. That includes the total amount from both clubs and subtracting the number of bodies that belong to both clubs. Then when you find that numbers you have a foundation to work with. Is you club that price because you would like twice as many members? So lets say you have room for 25 members in $58 club but you can't get them. Are you willing to add a Park Pilot club just to fill in those voids which will reduce costs for everyone? Or will you have to reduce costs just to keep the Park Pilots from forming their own clubs. Let's not forget the discount for a club member that would belong to both clubs, no different then family member discounts. Bottom line is there are things to consider and it's up to the clubs to decide. But Bill I've seen the materials, they are right in front of me on my desk. The AMA did not throw this program overnite, they made an effort for Park Pilots to acquire flying sites, I can assure you that a few attitudes will change when they see others benefiting from this program.

One problem there Dion, All 3 clubs to which I belong have waiting lists to join the regular membership. Having established that, how do you propose that we accomodate additional members?

Bill, AMA 4720

Bill, you ain't gonna win..

He's got an answer for everything, reminds me of a politician.

He never has said whats in this for him, since he working so hard at it pushing it on everybody......

You can bet that this is in his best interest, an he's just trying to make it look like he feels sorry for the poor PF'ers


Ronnie

I think that instead of naming him Dion, his parents should have named him Teflon. You can sling it at him as hard as possible, and yet nothing sticks. Artful Dodger indeed. He'd have been better off patterning the character after this bird. I have asked him questions that I thought no one could dodge, yet dodge them he did.

Bill, AMA 4720

Well then it looks like you answered your own question. If club A already sold the field out, then I guess club B isn't going to happen. But I doubt all the other 2500 AMA clubs have the same problem. But luckily the AMA created a new marketing straregy for Park Pilots to find their own home. They need 1/4 of the space, thus the speed restrictions.

KidEpoxy asked "how do you measure" 60 mph. Well it's really not that hard to determine 60 MPH if you know how to use a calcultor and a watch. You fly a pylon circuit one time and that will give your speed.

And yes I find it interesting that many people in this forum don't try to help other members too in regards to the AMA. I already said why, glow fuel.

Y'know Dion, You are your own worst enemy. The reason that most of us don't give a rat's behind whether or not you Park Pilots get your own part of the field is you. You have done everything to alienate those who would have bent over backward to help you and your Parkies get a fair shot at a field, or to share ours. Not any longer. I, personally will vote against any effort to allow the Park Pilots to have any useage of our fields. Go and pay your own way to build your flying facility. I'm done with you, and because of your attitude, I'm done with the Park Pilot's program. The vote at the fields where I fly won't even be close. See Ya, Won't have to fly around Ya. You are not superior to anyone, so lose the superior attitude.

About this time last year, you got the red hand. It's back, and this time it's staying on.

Bill, AMA 4720

hehe... he still won't answer my question, because we both know what the answer is. $$$$$$

This is the reason why we are getting the PF program. Common sense tells you that parkies aren't going to pay that kind of money to fly their plane at an AMA field in your area. The parkies can just get together and get permission now to fly at a local park, baseball field, school yard or even at city hall as some of them do here.

I think it is quite apparent from the people who pass by this forum and and read why the AMA is not growing and why many of the electric flyers what nothing to do with local AMA clubs. The attitudes of some people are just astounding to me. This is a hobby, not alittle kingdom. If you want people to pet your ego and kiss your ( bleep) you are in the wrong hobby. The people i hang and fly with are nice people. They work for a living and this is a way for them to have fun and associate with people who add quality to their lives. We make good friends and help one another. You can't put a dollar amount on that. I flew today. We had five planes in the air today, a first i know of, we have been in existence a year and a half, we have 15 members and three showed up today wanting to join. Our membership criteria? Not how much money can you afford, but how do you get along with people and do you want to have fun and contribute to our club. We don't frown on any aircraft. Today i saw a parkflying Mig 15 that flew as impressively as anything i have ever seen. An F-16, blue foam flyers, and an extra 300 as well as several other aircraft.

Go ahead some of you, keep trying to kick people in the teeth that you don't think measures up to your standards. But know this, there are many more people who are like me than are like you and when you are dead and gone, we will still have fun without you and we will decide the direction of the AMA.

Curtis,

I simply asked the question; how much should we charge. Should it not be the same as a regular member? If not , why not. Why are we going to charge the guys that built the field more than some Johnny-come-latelys? I think that that is a reasonable question. I can promise you that it's a question that I'm going to ask if they announce that the Park Pilots get a membership that is cheaper than what they charge me. I'll promise you that everyone else will too.

Bill, AMA 4720

You asked how much to charge and my first post in this thread was your answer. How else do you want me to spell it out .... SUPPLY AND DEMAND sets the price along with a little math. Do you need me to rent a blimp and fly it over your house so you can see it better? You won't get your answer until your market is created and I don't have a crystal ball.

I will be in this group. Call me what you want, but I believe that either you are member of the organization and support model aviation or you don't. This is just a path to a tiered system and that is BAD...PERIOD.

Of course, since all the paid in full members are interested in PF also, if another magazine is created, I EXPECT full paying members to get it also! Wonder if AMA took that extra cost into consideration.

This, for me, about sums up your knowledge base. Glow fuel bashing Of course, I guess that lets me off the hook to be against the PF program since I also fly electric...that must make me special and more worthy...

I was going to fly electric, until I priced that much extension cord. Cheaper to fly wet.

Bill, AMA 4720

LOL Thats why I still fly both types!

Bill,

You trashed my thoughts about getting a little more range with an extention cord for my electric. I still might go ahead with the update if the cost comes down a little. I think I can go with a small size wire as the current draw for this beauty is very low. Note the specially "bent" prop for more thrust, it really hauls this baby around nicely. I still need to update the switch and wiring to more modern methods. I think the twisted line feed keeps all the stray RF out of the supply voltage so really hate to change it, but might update the line switch with something a little more modern. I do have a nice gas powered generator so I can take this to the park to fly it.

Any idea of how old this rig is? Obviously post Edison, but probably not by much. Really a neat piece of antique modeling.

DelRay,

That is neat. Ya wanna sell it? On second thought.....Naaaaaah, I don't want to be accused of trying to fly electrics. They might make me join Dion's club. [:'(][:@]
Bill, AMA 4720

Curtis,

You still never answered my question. How much should we (mainstream clubs) charge the Park Pilots for the use of out fields? You can't sit there and tell me that we should just roll over and play dead for nothing. If you want to use an established facility, you certainly expect to pay something for the effort that was expended to create that facility. If not, then you are no better than the others who expect everything to be handed to them. C'mon Curtis, How much should the Park Pilots pay for membership at these fields. We already have one guy who won't ever answer a question. Don't become like him. Be a big boy, and answer up.

Bill, AMA 4720

Bill look at post 76.

Kind of hard to put an exact pricetag on each club. It's based on a formula.

Bill,

I think you have answered your own question and i did in the beginning of my post. The parkflyer is not going to pay $200.00 plus for club membership. The purpose of the PF program is to help the PF's utilize property that you and your club can't because it's too small. This is a no brainer. The PF program will lead to pf fields in most likely urban areas like school yards, empty lots and so forth.

The purpose of the sharp tone of post is the elitist mentality that i run into from established AMAers. The current AMA majority (?) it seems wants to force the PF's to conform to existing AMA dogma and club structure. By the nature of the technology and needs of that type of flying that is not possible, time has shown that this insistence on conforming them has pushed them away from AMA structure and lead to a decline in AMA membership and a thriving PF community outside the realm of AMA structure. This new program answers that need for BOTH the AMA and PFers.

It really does not matter to me what you charge to fly at your field. If you want $1000.00 dues that is your right. But understand that you won't get many takers at that price. What will happen in 10 years if there is no longer a waiting list to get into your club? After 10 years the upstart clubs (PFers) want nothing to do with you because in the beginning you guys shunned them? I think this is elementary, Model Aviation is exactly that, I really don't care if it's electric of if it's gas or glow. It doesn't have to be 100 inch wingspan to be a flying model. But at $200.00 plus on dues for your club i really don't think you have to worry about an invasion at your club field by parkies.

edited: spelling

I must admit - I just got my AMA renewed - and got the bill for my club dues which are around $200.00 per year now. Does this mean that if I pay only park flier dues to the AMA that my money will no longer be good at the club I have been a member of for so many years?? If I can save a bit on AMA dues by having less exposure, then why not?? Quite frankly, the timing for this has prevented me from being able to take advantage of this until next year, all part of the plan?? I can see no reason to change anything at the club level - a member is a member and all pay dues according to established rules. Park flyers of which there are many at my club field are already members paying full price to the club now and are not looking for a discount because of what they fly. I don't expect my club to change that. From my perspectve, the AMA may lose ground financially because of people like me who may switch to parkflyer status with the AMA instead of paying for the full meal deal but don't necessarily want to change anything else at the club level. Also, I would fully expect to be treated as a full member when attending events and contests in Muncie as in the past. Why should I have to pay the same rate to fly my discus launch 11 oz glider as the guys who fly 40 pound multi-engine screamers? From that perspective, I can see an argument for park flyer status. Those of us who have flown for fifty years and now choose to fly 2#'s or less and under 60 MPH are a growing force. Don't attempt to alienate us from the mainstream of the group. When I go flying, I take 7-10 flight ready planes with me each time and I am not limited to only flying at the AMA chartered club - I can fly at any number of places. The same is not true for large glow or gassers. We all need to stick together for the overall good of the sport, and if the AMA thinks this will improve things, then let's try it! I think some of you are jealous that some people like me are probably going to pay less?? I am also one of those who would prefer that the AMA magazine was a personal option rather than mandatory. Homer AMA 796112

Jug & Stick

It comes to mind that the OpenAMA club wont be charging the ParkieAMA members anything. The Parkie members will pay their dues to the ParkieAMA Club, and the ParkieAMA club has to pay for access to the site. This is a landowner deal the ParkieAMA Club will have, not a deal with the OpenAMA club....

...unless the club is the landowner.
Then the landowner (OpenAMA club) will be charging the ParkieAMA CLUB for access to the site like any other landlord would do. They dont put a Per Head rent, they use a Per Month or Per Year. So the ParkieAMA club will have to pay the $XXX rent no mater if they have 5 members or 50. If you want to develope some Per Head landowner rent for this discussion, ok, just say so & we can run with that.

Obviously if the site is developed into a fine flying field it would command far more rent than a pasture that needs $4000 of work for parkinglot runway & tables/pilotstations.

Of course there could be a setup like Tyler, where the ParkieAMA club would just be #3 club at the site and the deals will be with the city for use of city property. I dont know how hard it will be to get the city to give more urban park land to ParkieAMA flying clubs, since they already have a muni RC Flying Park and have city RC laws on the books. It could very well be that the AMA clubs have made Tyler unfriendly to urban PF flying... or not, dont know, I'm not on their city council

You've just described another great benefit for Park Pilots. Now they can just move right into the same flying site as AMA clubs 1 and 2. There are lots of towns with muni flying sites and since the park is public, it's pretty hard to cap just how many members can use the same flying site. Luckily the AMA was smart enough to know to incorporate the same flying site insurance benefits for Park Pilots as the current program has. So now Park Pilots have cheaper and more nich method of forming their own club and getting the same AMA benefits you and I get as full members. And for those Park Pilots who want to opt-out of the magazine, well they get that option as well in the form of 1:4 of the magazines showing up at their door. Great point Kid!

Can someone answer this question for me (I will ask members of the EC when I see them next but maybe some here have an opinion).

Is the goal of this Park Flyer program to have new PF members "move up" to a full membership?

The reason I ask is that it would appear to me, that the new program costs (new administration, new magazine, etc) of this new PF program are (initially) being born by the "full member".

So is the AMA's plan to recover this investment by:

1.) Converting Park Flyers full members
2.) Getting a lot of the new PF members and making it up with "volume"

Maybe it is a combination of both.