gday "paleface"

yes the Giles is heavy. I have ordered a magnum91 4 stroke for a 3d Extreme that i am builiding buit i might just try to install it in the giles in the short term and see if i can get it to work.

Of course the wing loading will increase again due to the extra motor weight, but it might just give it enough thrust and speed with the correct prop combo.

I started this thread, and flew my plane with a tower .46 untill last weekend. It always took the whole runway to get airborne, and seemed to bairley hop into the air right at the end. I found I had to keep it wide open, or close to it to keep it airborne. As soon as it broke ground which required a large amoung of up elevator you had to level off and build up speed. The plane seemed to have a tendencey to stall on take of every time. I think with the right motor this plane would be great. I have the Phoenix Sukhoi and run a Tower .75 in it and love it. Jumps off the ground.... I wrecked my Giles sunday, but I already ordered a new one, and am planning on running a Magnum XL80 4 stroke in this one. If you compare price on this arf, and its good quality you really can't beat it. I gave my last model pure hell. If you had a smooth paved surface to take off from you would have no problems with the .46 in it, but with grass you really could use the extra boost.
Mudbug1001: I ran a slimline pitts muffler on this plane because the tower .46 pipe is way to large. Tower sells them I think around $30....

Cool sounding plane!!!

Just got my Phoenix Giles 202 from Tower Hobbies.
I am greatly impressed with the quality and workmanship of the product. Extraordinary! Top notch covering except for minimal wrinkles which iron out easily. Even the packaging is meticulous.
I put the wings together last night. The instruction manual is beautifully printed in glossy paper with color pictures. Not as detailed and good as it could have (should have) been. The pictures ere not close-ups so it is difficult to tell certain details.
I will be using a Saito 72.
Can't wait to finish it
Luis

I have a giles 202 kit and i put a 46 fx and it will not balance at 4 1/8 inches from leading edge. Way way to tail heavy.

i ended up putting the battery under the fuel tank area (it just squeezed in) and I also mounted motor as far forward on the rails as possible. Not quite scale looking, but at the weight this plane already has, you dont want to put extra lead under the nose if you can avoid it!
Try also converting the pushrods to pull-pull wire systems to save weight or maybe even go to carbon rods. I also mounted my servos right up behind the tank to get the weight forward with the receiver beside them.

Any idea on dual rate settings for this plane?
The instruction manual calls for 10 mm throw on each each direction on the ailerons, but makes no mention of dual rates
Thanks
Luis

Be careful. I had to cut off the muffler on my Tower .46 and make my own middle section in order to make it work. Good Luck.

why waste time with these 46s just strap a 91 in there. there will be no problems for power. and the os 91s run flawlessly and really arent that expensive.

This plane would be great with like a Magnum 91 4st on it... I have had one with a 52 2st and it flew great but lost it to a switch failure... They are kind of beefy though and I had to add 4 oz. with the 52 on there which puts it about perfect for the 91... Can't go wrong with more power...

well
i ended up swapping my Giles for a JR max66 transmitter and new PCM receiver. I was pretty happy with that swap.

I ran mine with the 61FX. It weighed about 6 pounds or maybe 6.5--can't remember.

Definetly NOT a 3D performer. Tail surfaces are just too small. Great flying sport plane. Roll rate is blistering.

I stacked it in goofing around too low.

It's been a couple years since I had mine. I'd buy another one--if I could get it cheap. If memory serves me correctly--I think I got mine for about $80.

I'm currently building the Sukhoi for a friend. Engine is a 46FX--I think it's gonna be sluggish.

small planes with high wing loadings are simply horrible.

A really good sport/pattern plane is the Excelleron 50 by Sportsman Aviation. Flies great with a 50 2 stroke or 70 4 stroke. Of course i went silly and put a 91 4stroke in mine... simply brilliant flier.. hovers too.

I dont think the Phoenix kits are that good. I also bought the Phoenix Atlantis and the wood selection and construction arent as good as it could be. However, they are VERY cheap and i have never had one fall apart on me.

Yup, this thing glides like a rock.

I took it up for the first time today. I'm running a GMS .47 and the CG ended up being a tad nose heavy at 105mm. I extended the firewall about a half an inch using light plywood to get close to the 4.75" washplate distance from the firewall, which may have contributed to the CG. Anyway, a little nose heavy doesn’t hurt on the first flight.

I couldn't use the stock GMS muffler because it's way too long for the existing Phoenix engine mount in this plane. I ended up bartering a Magnum or OS 40 muffler off a friend of mine to use with the .47. Guess what, I didn't extensively test this setup before flying. When you're flying a "lead sled" that isn't a good idea.

I had no problems taking off even with a little dew on the grass runway. The plane was pretty much trimmed out perfectly and flew like it was on rails. I took it around at around half throttle and was gaining a little altitude to start some low power tests to get an idea of its stall characteristics. As I performed a climbing pass of the runway a sudden loud flutter came from both ailerons. I've never heard it so bad. Those at the field, not already watching, looked up to see if my plane exploded or something. We could clearly see both ailerons fluttering badly. I immediately chopped power to idle and in a panic state told the guy who had just fired up his engine (thanks a bunch buddy) that I was executing an emergency landing. I turned into the downwind and at this time believe the engine quit. I'm not sure because this guy had his engine running right near me, but I'm pretty sure that was the case. I didn't test the engine extensively with the new muffler, but took my time getting the idle and transition right along with a "engine on" range check prior to the flight. So, needless to say this deadstick caught me off guard.

So, here I am with a rock with wings, after a huge control surface flutter situation (remember, at around half throttle), with the plane losing altitude fast in the downwind leg. I was probably still at idle with the throttle stick, but was too overwhelmed at this time to gun it. Besides, I'm under the impression that the engine's dead now. Anyway, the plane violently tip stalled right after I called out the emergency situation. I recovered from the first stall, but now had no idea if the plane was coming toward me or flying away from me (my color perception became diminished due to the plane's relative location to the morning sun). Then she tip stalled again. I'm talking some mean stalls that point the nose straight down. At this time, she was only around fifty feet up. I was overwhelmed and could only watch as the plane spun into the swamp.

A couple of nice gentlemen and I trudged through the swamp to retrieve my wreck. Luckily, or not, the plane found a little creek and was nose first in two feet of water (only the front 20% of the cowl was underwater). The wing had detached along with the plywood fuselage wing mount (so much for the nylon wing bolts performing their magic) and was resting on some light brush, in perfect orientation with the fuselage, about an inch below. I disconnected the servo leads and removed the wing from it's location to inspect it (after turning off power to the reciever and removing the fuselage from the creek). The left aileron servo pushrod had completely popped out of the control horn. The cowl was cracked a little, but that was the extent of the damage. I got home and took the GMS .47 apart and soaked it in oil all day after removing water. The engine was the only part of the aircraft that got wet because the back end of the fuselage was resting on a limb hanging over the water. All of the servos work fine except the two aileron servos. The aileron servo that was detached from the pushrod is running constantly when I turn on the transmitter and receiver. The aileron servo that was still connected is now glitchy and is probably missing some teeth from gears.

After looking at the crash damage and the two aileron servos, I believe the left aileron may have popped loose during the flutter condition I suffered. It’s difficult to tell for sure, but that may explain why the plane was almost unflyable after I chopped power to alleviate the flutter condition I suffered through. In retrospect the plane may have been okay had I kept some power on, but my main goal was to eliminate the flutter so might not have been possible to do so. Anyway, I must add that the plane flew really well at half throttle, but that only lasted for about a minute this first flight.

Has anyone else noticed this flutter of the ailerons? Also, this plane came pre-hinge taped, so I didn’t bother doing it myself.

Here are some pics of this good lookin plane the day before the first flight (I don’t have any post crash pics):

I had the Giles 202 on about 10 flights with a OS 46 AX. It took a while to get it off the ground but moved like a bat outta hell when it got up with a 11x7 APC prop. Anyway I too heard the fluttering sound very loudly and the wing let loose from the fuselage and the fuse snaped in half IN THE AIR!! Flat spun all the way down. All I did was point the nose at a 15 degree angle down and leveled out the plane when this happened. I am very disappointed with this plane. I had no problems and loved the plane up to this point, no stalling or anything. I am calling Phoenix tomorrow to see if this is under warranty. The problem I feel was that the wood where the wing bolts go in is plywood but attach to balsa and the balsa let loose. Too much flutter or something. Anybody have to deal with these people with warranty issues?? How are they?? The engine was enough and really moved the plane other than take off.

Sorry, I first was going down at 15 degree angle and leveled off then heard the flutter and then went down from about 150 feet up.

danedelman, I wonder why we got the flutter situation in the first place. My GMS .47 was plenty for this plane although I never got above half throttle. I'm surprised that I didn't have the problems taking off like others have (course this GMS is a powerful sucker I used to scream around with a Lucky Stik). Gotta admit, they make a good engine!

The bottom line for me is that I believe the flutter situation caused the plane to become even more un-flyable than it already was. I haven't called TH yet but got names of witnesses and I'm thinking about it.

Let me know what you run into if you try to get warranty repair done.

I have to send the plane back to Phoenix models. Tower gave me this number to call 217-398-0007. I was at full throttle and really moving when it happened. the 46 AX is plenty of power in the air just the take offs took very long. The flutter I heard sounded like a helicopter going from moving to hovering or reversing the pitch of the prop and then into my first flat spin to the ground. It seemed like the fuse cracked in half in the air, right below the front of the canopy.

hmmm... cant say i am an expert but I have a similar problem on a 46 plane that i have called the Pepper. It is an old design, low wing, box fuse, but the sound it makes is the same as you described in the previous post.
My hinge gaps are sealed on the ailerons so it cant be that. The only think i can think of is that the material that the ailerons are made of is soft balsa and becasue they are so long and slender, they may be flexing at the tips.
It only happens at full throttle settings. At half throttle, the plane flies very sweetly.

There is not much, if any slop in the aileron linkages.

I would be checking the linkages on my ailerons; do you have any flexing on the elevators and rudder?

if i remember back to my Giles, they came supplied with terrible wire/dowel rods that had a LOT of flex in them... so much that you could easily twist the elevator halves opposite directions....

are yours the same?

cheers

no they did not flex really at all, just a little. The hinges came pre hinged from the factory and had no gaps. It seemed to me like the fuse snaped in the air and the air went into the plane and ripped the wing off.

I have this plane with an MDS .58 in her...this plane screams...the roll rate is like a blender!
I really love the plane..balances without ANY weight!

Speaking of weight, has anyone found any lead built into the fuel tank area like what was discovered in the Sukhoi after some crashes?[X(]

I have this plane ,but I have not started on it yet. I bought it as my secound plane, was thinking of putting O.S.50 sx on it or Vmax 52 . Which engine do you think would be better for it?Should it seal hinge gaps?thanks a head of time.

hope you guys have better luck than I did.

My Giles came in last week. After reading most of the posts I could find here on RCU I started feeling like maybe I shouldn't have ordered this ARF. Very few good words on it. Many bad.[] It was just a T.H. Super Saver Club impulse buy I admit. Also got tired of looking at two perfectly good 2-strokes just sitting around during the warm season.
I have an OS .46AX and an OS .61SF both with stock and Slimline Pitts mufflers. The .46AX was on a profile and had unlimited vertical running a 13x4W APC. The .60 was on another so called .46 ARF ,, the Seagull Extra300S. This plane seemed larger and heavier than a .46 should be as well. The .60 flew it fine but the vertical was limited.
I'm at the stage where the elev,rudder pushrods and the motor need installing. Both of these tasks have me wondering which step to take next. Will the darn thing fly with the .46AX >??? Or do I need the .60 to even fly the thing ? (I fly from a paved runway.)
And ,,,, what type of pushrod setup do I need to install for the tail feathers? The elev is a connected one piece setup . But would one rod be enough? The rudder will work fine with a single rod and horn,,, but after all the bad reviews who knows. My CMP Spitfire uses the wooden dowl rod type control rods. I never liked this old style setup. But I have never had problems with them. They just look like something out of the 1960's RC world.
Replies are needed.
Thanks !!


Here ya go.


[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJCU4&P=0]Canopy[/link]