Easy Tiger - maybe in the US but in Malaysia the VMAR 40 sized plane cost quite a bit more than a nice WM 40 sized plane ... eg. a WM SS40 is about USD100 ... VMAR Tiger about USD 120. The 40 sized Edge etc is about USD130. VMAR can go a very very long way if they only improved a few things on quality, I mean the planes fly nice enough. The Pilatus Beaver etc are really nice but for the quality and durability.

I just love these vmar threads........................and LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a few VMAR ARFs, as far as the hardware issue I have changed out rods clevises etc to sullivan and dubro, I do this on all my ARFs not only VMAR, also most of the ARF instructions from most makers say check the glue joints, if I think its needed I glue in 1/8 strips between bulkheads and side of aircraft. and beef up the landing gear mounts inside with a ply plate, large open areas on the fus sides get diagonal 1/8 bracing most of this may only add a hour to make a stronger airframe. The few extra dollars and time spent
still is a lot less than kit building. My vmar apaches are 5 years old and still going strong, my dornier from VMAR looks pretty nice
not together yet however martin

[sm=punching.gif]

All I can say is that if VMAR can just use better wood and glue things better like WM and use better linkage etc ... oh yes ... they should kill the pilots! Then they will be one real force to contend with for beginners. I love the look of their scale planes such as the Donier ... looks great and I can see it flies very nice.

You must be buying real old VMAR kits top experience the "stinky" wood syndrome. They stopped using that old oily "cottonwood" many moons ago and switched to balsa starting with the the Jodel and RAV4. Same with the shelf paper covering.

I have had 4 VMAR's, the 1st an old "Stiletto" (circa 1996) which I thumbed in.

The 2nd was their Chipmunk. Had the same wing as the Stiletto (had to be flown the same way as well, landed "Hot") but the main gear braces in the wing couldn't handle the load and I had to reglue the lot. I junked it after 12 months when a servo failed and it landed "nose 1st!"

The 3rd was a PC-9. The covering faded over time (2 years) but the model flew well. It finally bit the dust when some other clown turned his Tx on when I was flying low and inverted.

The last was a "Ramrod" I bought in 1998. Still have it and it flies just great. Nice rolls and great spins. It has lasted longer than a couple of other models from supposedly "superior" manufacturer's, that I have owned in the past. The covering is wrinkled, but so is the "Oracover" (Profilm) covering I have on a kit "Stik" made about the same time.

After a few years break from buying a VMAR, I have just taken delivery of a new VMAR Cessna L-19 Bird Dog (electric powered) and it is made from balsa. Probably not the greatest quality balsa around, but a big step up from the "Cottonwood" used previously.

A friend recently bought a Topflite Sea Fury and has had to replace a lot of the balsa in that kit because it was, in his opinion- rubbish. SO VMAR are not the only ones guilty of supplying not so good balsa.

As for the VMAR Bird Dog. It's quite good for the price. I've had worse (and at a greater price) and certainly have never had a VMAR do the same thing as tiANci's Worlds Models Super Sports 40 did--(Have the entire front bulkhead and firewall come out on landing, because the assembly had absolutely NO glue on it.)

I also have an ESM F1 "Trainer". it has absolutely NO balsa in it anywhere. I'm not sure what wood it is (but it's sure tough) but as someone else said..I don't really care what it is made of. As long as it flies right.

As for the hardware. I normally don't use any of the harware supplied in any ARF kit. Hinges included if they are not already glued. I prefer to substitute with stuff I know is quality stuff. After all, it's my expensive radio gear and engine flying around up there. I call the extra cost "Insurance."

And it's still cheaper than buying a kit, where you also have to supply most of this hardware anyway, as well as covering material.

So what about VMAR. Well, its as good and as bad, as any other of the Asian manufacturers offerings. If you pay attention to detail and carefully inspect, re-inforce and measure the obvious, even adjust if neccesary, you will come out with a model that flies quite well and that's what the name of the game is all about.

Have a read of some of the threads down in the Warbirds section and see the mods some of those guys do on the more expensive ARF kits from ESM and CM-PRO/GSP, to get a strong and nicely detailed and flying model. Suddenly the extra bucks you spent on a different set of wheels /clevises etc for a VMAR (or Blackhorse, Phoenix or a World Models kit) looks quite cheap.

The post by Woody51 gives a good overview of the changes several years back that were made to the Wood and Covering used in VMAR ARF products. We remain concerned that a number of posts particularly those originating from some locations in South East Asia do not correctly or fully indicate these changes and appear to be referring to very old product.

For information about the wood used in VMAR ARF models please visit our Knowledge Base at http://142.179.114.175/novo/default....11&Lang=1&SID=

Hardware such as wheels, tanks, engine mounts, clevises, control rods, hinges and spinners have also gone through engineering and production changes over the past 6-18 months. For information about improvements to the Hardware and Fittings used in VMAR ARF products please visit our Knowledge Base at http://142.179.114.175/novo/default....57&Lang=1&SID=

We remain committed to the provision of reasonably priced, good quality, unique ARF models.

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributor - The Americas

I am glad to see Kelsey come in and make his views known. Seems that those at Vmar are making a good attempt to come out of there shell, and are making good attempts to clean up the name Vmar by boosting quality, and communicating their changes to customers. Even though I have voiced my dissapointment with the Vmar Plane I purchased from them, I must say that it looks like they are trying to move forward in a positive direction. At some point if they keep moving in a positive direction they will lift the Black Cloud that hangs over them, and surely get recognized for producing Low Cost Quality Airplanes sometime in the near future. So hang in there, and keep moving forward because vmar really does offer some nice designs if they can just get the quality issues all ironed out.

I hate to say it but I still have concerns . I really want to buy one of the prop jets , they look great !!!! However from all the post /cost risk now I am concerned . I think the new prop planed went from $299 up to $329 .That is a lot of money for "we made improvments " At $329 , I want quaility , yep I know many of you will say , build it yourself , or what do you expect for $329 ect ect .Well the bar has been raised by the manufactures . I have multiples example of great ARFs that are out there .
VQ P40 is one example

If Vmar has changed then there ads should shout how ,why , when . IN a features and benifit format .
They have a ton of competition for the money .

I couldn't agree more. Someone always has to say "you get what you pay for", but why not get the best your money can buy, no matter who you buy from, or how much you pay for it? There are many manufacturers out there now who are priced just as low as Vmar, yet they do not suffer from a reputation of poor quality like Vmar does. So if someone who is on a real tight budget thinks that vmar is their only option, then they have not looked around much! At $329 you deserve quality LDM, and I would be very nervous about spending that kind of money with a company that has a less than stellar reputation. As I said before, it does seem that they are trying to do better, but as you said they need to let people know why they are as good or better than the competition, and what they have done or changed that makes them better.

Ray , your dead on ! Do a search and you will find outstanding quality in ARFs , examples are
Ceramark F16 $279
VQ P40 $259
H9 P40 $259
WM Zero /Mustang $249
GSP , Hellcat , P40 , Spit all average around $200 to $225
My point is that RCU members are ad driven , review driven , we are driven by "real guys " on RCU , that is why this site is so great . I have people tell me "dont believe everything you read on RCU ' sure that is partially true but when the majority of regular guys on this site say its Ok , or no its not , you can take it to the bank .
Vmar has a long way to go as far as I am concerned because the majority of the RCU members still report bad experiences .
As far as value , your also right ,there are better deals out there !!!

one more thing I meant to say , we are NOT ad driven , review driven , but we are driven by real guys on RCU

Something I would really like to know is whether Vmar has designed a better tire to include with there ARFS. This is no joke, but the tires that came with my Subaru were egg shaped, and would have caused the poor pilot who already looked scared out of his mind a severe case of hemroids. I gave my Subaru away "FREE" a couple weeks back to a guy at my club who liked the looks of it minus the engine and radio. I was going to take my good Dubro low bounce wheels back off of it before I gave it away, but I just couldn't get myself to put them egg shaped vmar wheels back on it. I think they were designed to launch the Plane into the air after one rotation. Anyway he was happy to get the Plane, and it was a very good flyer, and looked great in the air. I just told him that he would have to handle it with care, because they are a fragile Plane. The cowl is very thin, and the wing sheeting is thin enough to put your fingers through if you are not carefull carrying it. Again to Vmars credit, I will say that it was a very good flyer though. I still have my old Vmar stick 60 though that has been around forever and seen more flights than I can count. I have no idea why this Plane has lasted this long since it is a fragile Plane as well, and easy to damage while handling. Just keeps on flying though. I have included some photos that contain the two Vmars I have owned. The old stick 60 has had a cockpit incorperated into the top of the wing. It has also been recovered in SCRAPS. The old Plane is as crooked, and as warped as they come, but a fun old beater to fly.

With regards to pricing of VMAR ARF Jets (Prop). Although supply has been and continues to be extremely tight, pricing in the Americas market has not changed to date. The A4 remains at usa$249.95, the F4U and Mig21 remain at $299.95. The two versions of the A4, two versions of the F4U and the single Mig21 have all been released. The F5E is coming in September at $299.95 for either of two versions. The F18 is coming in the fall at the advertised price of $329.95. There was an early bird special for those who pre-booked the F18 prior to June for a savings on the F18 of about $30.

I am not sure where the information re a price increase on the Jets originated, but from the factory and distribution perspective this is not correct. Suggested Retail Prices remain unchanged in the Americas market in both $USA and $CDN. Although local currency fluctuations may impact international markets from time to time there has been no official factory price change to date.

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributor - The Americas

All I can say is that somehow the VMARs that came into Malaysia last year had that bad news wood. I am speaking about the local conditions here when a VMAR costs about or a little more than a nice WM. Still you cannot deny that the VMAR planes do fly nice enough. My pal was flying the Stilleto (pylon from VMAR) and he passed me the controls ... told me to crash it. The plane had only less than 12 flights and covering was coming off etc. If VMAR can sort out such problems (too many have complained about it) they will be one good brand in the market.

We discontinued the Stilletto in late 2000.

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributor - The Americas

I raised the question on the Price from $299 to $329 , it was simple , I did not see an ad that said "early bird special " $299, but I did notice that the next time I visited the site it was $329.
So regardless that is a price increase no matter how you slice it . There is not one ARF that has gone up $30 since its intro , not one .

The Early Bird Special on the F18 ran from May 15th until June 15th as stated on Page 8 of our current Catalog per the link to our web site at http://www.richmondrc.com/vma/storec...oresV4_all.pdf

The web site depicted the same terms and conditions.

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributore - The Americas

Ray... here is a link with some history and information re Wheels used in VMAR ARF products ... http://142.179.114.175/novo/default....19&Lang=1&SID=

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributor - The Americas

Thanks for the information. I am really glad to hear they have been improved. That is just one more step in the right direction, and one less thing that someone like myself can complain about. Keep up the great efforts!

What about planes like the Hot Rod ?... I used to Race them in our local High Wing class.. A real good flying FAST plane... However the last one I built (about a year and a half ago) still had the funny, brittle, smelly wood in the wing (caps and ribs etc) and the tail surfaces... I built a total of three of these for racing... I would start by trying to get as many warps as possible out of the elevator rudder and ailerons... I thought the rudder especially was a work of art the way it was built up, beautiful... But it was made of that funny wood that warps... What a shame... I cut the elevator halfs apart, flattened them and reepoxied them.. THe ailerons were a little more of a problem.. They also are "built up"... With heat and twisting I could get some of it out.. Then I flew it and trimmed the
rest of it out.. The hardware I threw away except for the nose gear... Last one had the control horn (metal) already soldered to the nose wire... Nice touch.. The coveing is IMHO is not the best.. It has a real tendancy to "prune" up in the hot sun.. Just a few of the highlights here... Guess I am asking if these problems have been resolved yet ?..
As previously stated... Vmar has a great lineup of planes and the ones I have seen/flown so far are great flyers... It is the shoddy wood, construction and covering that is killing them IMHO..

Kelsey - discontinued? Hmmmmm ... something smells here ... now I think I understand what happened.

IronCross... the HotRod was discontinued in August 2003 and replaced by the Hornet in November 2003.

For information related to Wood Types and other General Information related to the components used in a VMAR ARF please see our Knowledge Base at... http://142.179.114.175/novo/default....76&Lang=1&SID=.

Richmond RC Supply Ltd
VMAR Distributor - The Americas

Thanks for adding a period at the end of that link. Otherwise, I would not have known when it ended.

Thats a shame that the HotRod has been discontinued.. The design was really good and fun to fly... With better quality wood and construction that one could have been a winner... I have never seen a Hornet... I checked the Richmond site and took a look at it
there... Sure is one busy looking covering