I balanced mine with the tank empty and it floats in on landings. The LongEZ does require a bit longer takeoff run but then so does the full scale one. It sits at a slightly nose high attitude on a level surface. Not a lot but just barely noticable. If you have the nose down while sitting still it will require a lot of speed to lift the canard and even may result in to much up elevator at lift off causiing a stall. I think maybe this is what david is having happen to him.

For elevator movement mine has 3/4 in. up and down at high rate and 1/2 in. up and down at low rate. For the aileron I have differential set into my radio and have 3/8 in. up and 1/4 in down in high rate and about 1/4 and 1/8 in. on the low rate. I used the flaperon function on my radio to do this mixing channels . It could stand a little more aileron on high but its got a plenty hi roll rate for me.

I have a retractable nose gear in mine you can read one of my past posts(up a few) here for the CofG changes that this has. Dronepilot, the wheel pants that come with the kit are very fragile, I think everyone who has used them has had to replace or repair them. Just a llittle heads up for you.
If you can make a good engine run by relocating the tank I'd say go for it, I havent noticed any bad flying traits with the stock tank location. Speaking of stock tanks, be sure and tighten up the stopper real good mine leaked and made a mess in the fuse.


I think you going to love the way the LongEZ flys. Just takes a little getting used to the planform of a little wing in front..


Pete

Pete, Got, it, both responses. Gonna fly BIG BIRDS Friday, but the EZE is going to go along and may make the big jump... Will post results if it happens. One more question... I noticed that there are at least two cowls... one with scoops on the side and like mine, no scoops. Do you fly cowled or not. If so how about engine cooling ? I'm going to fly first few without cowl, should not make any aerodynamic difference. I'm flying with a TT.46 Pro and APC 11-7.5, that's what I use on the other pusher with good results. Cliff

Well, as advertised the Long Eze was flown today (Friday), twice. First of all, I followed your suggestion on elevator throw and balance, both good. I chose to ignore your aileron throws, and used 5/8" up and down...WRONG..WRONG ..WRONG... way to much, 3/8 is much better, and as far as expo, that is next after I get used to that function, which I will try out on my Kaos. Flew off a 600'by 60' grass runway with a slight right to left cross wind and I'm glad I had 600' 'cause I started the roll about 200 ft' from one end and just got airborne at the other, that is about 375' to 400'. The first take off wasn't bad, did as you said, didn't rush it and made a shallow climb out, but..... with those ailerons at those throws the plane was all over the sky, glad I had a more eexperienced pilot there for back up. It didn't take long to get into trouble, couldn't see it, and was over controling the whole flight. The second flight was with ailerons at 3/8' throws and it was a little more stable, but still a hand full. The take off was a little dicey, as my pilot tried to pull the nose up a little early, and at about 6' up the nose dropped, not a stall, but just dipped, thankfully he was quick on the throttle and elevator and he got it back to a gentle climb rate. Landings were a new experience, as the plane seems not to like being close to the ground, it was pretty dancy and as you again said, takes a little power and does take a while to stop trying to fly again.... Very interesting plane, but I think I'll dig out my trainer and calm my nerves for awhile before I try to fly it again. Cliff

Glad to hear you had a pretty good first couple flights. I told ya it was different in the air!!! The Expo feature is easy to get used to, it just softens the stick movement near the center position, but gives you full travel if you need it. I too had way to much aileron on the first few flights. I had set the dual rate switch for half of the full rate and it flew much better so when I got home I made the hi rate the same as the low and then half'd the travel for low rate. Much easier to fly now.. I was thinking of increasing the hi rate a little now I'm used to it, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.. Woohooo for computer radios. I have the model with no scoops on the cowl and my motor over heats in the summer, so i just fly with out the cowl on. I plan on making a scoop from balsa and mountiong it to the wing some way. It just need a little more airflow to cool the engine. I found an old K&B 6.5 DF (40)engine that has a rear exhaust and a can muffler that I had forgotten I had. Got it out and ran it on the test stand. I may put that motor on the LongEZ and invert it so the cylinder head is out in the airflow. It's a powerhouse with a 10X8 APC, so it may be just he right ticket for the LongEZ. Going to see if I can find another cowling, as I have already cut the original for a side mounted engine with a Pitts muffler.

I forgot to tell you that if you are flying with a crosswind you have no rudder to correct the flightpath with, and its a challenge to take off striaght down the runway, and line up and hold a heading on landing. We have a nice 80 foot wide grass runway, so I get by with it a little more than I should. Some times its really close though. I try not to fly the LongEZ if there is a strong, or close to 90 degree crosswind.

I just bought the 46 size model and was planning on installing a 60 fp in it, I also have a 46 LA available but thought the extra power might be helpful. What is your guys opinion on that, does it need it or would it be overkill. Also will it fit the cowling all that well. I haven't received mine in the mail yet. Just trying to get a little info before hand.
Thanks

If you go back to the begining of this thread you'll find that a .46 either a LA or FX or in my case a TT.46 Pro is plenty of power. It will be easier to balance with the smaller motor as this bird is tail heavy..... Cowling is tight and with a .60 you will probably hog out a lot of cowl.... I don't think anyone is flying with cowl on anyway. due to lack of cooling air intake....If pictures don't come up with this reply, you can go to my gallery and there are a couple there...Cliff

Jim, I've flown mine with both the 46LA and the 46 FX I personally like the LA better as its lighter. I think you'll fine it plenty for this plane. Mine even has a nose gear retract installed. MIne is really quit fast. I'm turning an 11x7 APC @ 11700 with 15% Wildcat fuel with the 46 LA. The cowl is a waste of time it just overheats the engine.

Read the threads posted here on RCU it will save you a lot of headaches. There are 2 or 3 about this aircraft, just click on my name(jmupilot) in the lefthand column, then look for the LongEZ threads. If this your first Canard remember the elevator is BACKWARDS from conventional aircraft.

Pete

Thanks for the pics and the info guys.
Has anyone got on any of the furums for the full scale version of this plane to ask what there running as far as the incidence goes for the canard. I've read about how the fit up front for that wing is not perfect so this varies. I've done some other reading on canard design and it seems that the airfoil shape is what they want different. That airfoil has to stall well before the main wing or you'll end up in a severe spin.
It sounds like the manual with the plane is next to nothing.

I didn't have a fit problem with mine. It was quite snug, with little, if any slop. I think parts fit on this plane is some of the best I've seen. This model uses an elevator strip on the canard, the canard is not a moveable airfoil as on the full size. I don't know how much difference that detail makes in the way it flys. It was suggested to me that it would be less pitch sensative if it was changed to a moveable airfoil, instead of being fixed with a movable trailing edge (elevator), not being an engineer, I leave that to others. I have only two flights, due to weather and getting up enough nerve for #3....Cliff

Aerodynamically, there is no similarity between the full scale Long EZ and our models. The full scale has a super-critical airfoil on a much smaller canard. If you built a model that way, it wouldn't be controllable, if it ever got off the ground.

As an example of the difference, the model Long EZ will fly inverted quite nicely and it will do both upright and inverted spins and recover from them easily. The full scale won't do any of that.

Jim

Jim, and the other Jim, I just came from the EAA Museum site (www.airventuremuseum.org), they have a spec page and quite a few pictures of Rutans planes. I must correct a misstatement I made in my last post... The canard IS FIXED, with, as the web site states evelons, NOT a movable airfoil. As to scale models, it is true with other renditions of various planes, the "scale" vs Close to scale does not fly well. I was told that the forces involved do not necessarily porpotionize (my word) when the design is reduced to our size planes...... This one is a hoot, gitting braver every day.....Cliff

My canard fit into the fuselage very well I didn't make any adjustments. I have a slighty drooped elevator as trimmed for level flight. You are right as we cannot scale down air molecules therefor we as modelers have to make concessions with wing and airfoil design. I have found that this model flys quite like the full scale. If slowed down and held at high angle of attack the canard will stop flying and the nose will drop and the plane will recover and fly on. I have yet to really have it try and enter a spin, It just lowers the nose and keeps flying. Of course I'm not trying to spin it as there is no rudders to stop the spinning. maybe the ailerons will do the trick too. I just havent tried to spin it, It does however fly inverted really well. It rolls pretty straight too and fast if the ailerons are set to a large throw. Tis really a nice little airplane on the wing. I had a flyby video posted here a few weeks ago, it may still be there listed in the members video as "LongEZ flyby" Dronepilot how many flights you have on your LongEZ now?

Pete

I just center the ailerons and give it full throttle and full down. It drops the nose and stops spinning. You need plenty of altitude, but otherwise is isn't all that exciting.

Jim

I received my plane in the mail yesterday. I surprise to see how well it was built. This is my first arf and I'm pleasantly surprised. Hopefully I'll have it put together in the near future. It is smaller than I had expected so I'm gonna go with your guys sugestion an use the .46 LA that I have. I'm gonna so some slight modifications to the cowl area so I can get some better cooling to the engine. I'll post some picks of what I do if anyone is interested.

Please do post cowl mods... I'm thinking of making some small scoops to put on the sides os the cowl, it is still a pretty tight fit though. Cliff

I was going to mount a scoop to the left wing panel to cover the head of the engine, I was thinking this may be easier to do that attaching somthing to the cowl. Maybe 2 small screws to hold it on. I even took 1/2 of the plastic container that a DuBro spinner came it and painted it white on the inside. I left the flats on the sides to glue to the cowl, looks pretty good for a scoop. Just knocking around some Ideas.

Pete

Pete, Attach a picture, sounds good. I think there is enough exit air with the stock cutouts. Cliff

Just a couple of days ago I received my yellow LongEZ from Raidentech. Wow! The quality is very impressive for the money! Kind of figured engine cooling was going to be an issue, I've got an OS 46AX to install, but since I'm reading you guys just fly the model without the cowling its giving me even more incentive to install my OS 30 Wankel without the cowling. The Wankel makes a LOT of power, and since it is very inefficient with the fuel, the LongEZ is large enough for a large tank to make the Wankel worthwhile I should think. Hope to build this one in the next couple of weeks.

I also wound up buying the 120 size Gee Bee----and I have searched and searched and searched through these forums trying to find tips on that one to not much avail. Seems there is a lot of info on the Great Planes model, but not much if anything I can find searching with "Raidentech Gee Bee" or "Raidentech", "CMP Gee Bee", AKM Gee Bee"----can anybody point me in the right direction?

Thanks and looking forward to being a participant in this thread!

I finally started to assemble this plane. Overall I would have to say that the kit is fairly well constructed. It could use a little more glue in some of the joints which concerns me on how much they used on the inside of the wings. All the parts seem to be laser cut which makes for a nice precise fit. My cowling looks a little different from the ones you guys show in the pics, mine already has side scoops on it. I think with some well placed baffles inside overheating shouldn't be to much of a problem. I ordered a 9x7 three blade to go on the .46 LA, I hope this combination gives enough push. It will definately help with ground clearance. As of right now I'm just using the stock nose wheel. I thought about a retractable nose wheel since I have one laying around not being used but with all my warbirds I wanted to go with simplicity on this one. That may change later after some flight testing. I also might do some airbrushing on those large white wings instead of going with the stripes that come with the kit. I'll post some pics when it's flight ready.

Just thought I'd add a few things from my build of the Raidentech yellow Long EZ model over the past few days.

With regard to the original question of this thread about the engine mounting--what I did was to mount the engine (OS 46AX) on the supplied engine mounting rails at the correct distance back from the firewall (120mm I seem to remember) and added about 4 mm for "comfort"; I then placed the rear cowling on the fuselage and positioned it to fit the lines of the top and bottom of the fuselage for appearence sake. Measured through the cowl to insure I had the required 120mm and then applied masking tape where the cowling edge met the fuselage to mark things. Next I removed the cowl and placed the engine/mount assembly onto the firewall while holding the fuselage vertical, fit the cowl on (I had already cut out enough for the sideways mounted engine) and holding the fuse vertical moved the engine around to "center up" with the cowl and more specifically the hole for the crankshaft. Marked the outline of the engine mounts and then proceeded to drill the holes in the firewall.

Mounted the engine and fit the cowl, looked terrific! Thats when I slid on the left wing....well....almost slid on the right wing! At this point, and after an open handed slap to the forehead, I was faced with one of two options:

A) Make about a 1"X1" notch in the trailing edge of the left wing to clear the engine or
2) Move the engine up about 13mm for good clearence.

I chose solution (2) and the cowling still fits pretty good. So you've been warned!

The fuel tank----why not put it in backwards and have very short lines to the engine. And even though the fuel tank is the symmetrical, it will NOT go in backwards. It's not the stopper hitting the firewall, I used a dremel to relieve the top of the former above the rear wing dowel....but it just won't go. Wound up putting it in forewards with lonnnnngggg fuel lines. Don't like it, but thats the way it is.

Ailerons-----beef up the connections where the mounting plates for the aileron servos fit in the wings by placing flat triangular plywood gussets in the corners above the spots where the screws fit...trust me on this one.

More as it gets done!

Rube.....Having no experience with pushers, on my first one I put the tank in with the stopper to the rear. Boy it fit great and looked good too. BUT (notice the caps) when we held up the nose to check the needle setting the engine quit, tried it three times and quit three times......it seems the clunk has to be at the rear of the plane with the nose up to get any fuel, odd huh! This time, on the EZE I put the tank in with the stopper fwd and it works great. Cliif good luck

WHAP! Yet another open handed slap to the forehead! I've been flying RC for 31 years now, and this is my first attempt at a "pusher"----- I didn't even consider where the clunk oughta be. All makes sense now that you brought it up!

Well, it's finally DONE. Except for the canopy fastening to the fuselage....still thinking about that since I will have to transport the plane with the wings removed, and thinking about using velcro or those little magnets like some of the electrics use. If anybody has a good idea about that, holler!

I don't know what the plane weighs, but balancing at 16 3/16" back from the leading edge of the canard fit just about 3/4" in front of the specified 130mm (EDIT!!! The specs are NOT 130 mm but rather 152mm back from the leading edge---I was thinking about the 120 size Gee Bee that I bought at the same time as the Long EZ! The spot I checked the balance was in fact 152 mm and NOT 130!) back from the leading edge--which confirms what at least two posters have commented on the CG. Took 5 1/2 ounces of lead in the nose (in addition to the chunk of "ballast" that came with the kit) to balance---this being with the rear cowling and a 3 blade 9X7 prop on the 46AX, no wheel pants and no fuel.

On attaching the canopy to the fuselage I just used 4 servo mounting screws, placed 2 on each side. I just slid the inside piece up under the dash and it just lays inside, over the open area of the fuselage. Many flights and not a problem at all the fuse on mine is ply so the screws have something to grab.

As far as pushers go, remember to make sure your put the prop on the right way, or you wont get max thrust from it. Its an easy thing for nose mounted engine guys to over look!!!

Your right about having to cut the wing if you dont position the engine right. Mine just barely clears the top of the left wing.

Don't forget the little chrome rod that goes in the back of the plane. Its about 1/4 in dia., and is the rear wing rod, I and others have thought about replaceing it with a carbon fiber one to save some weight in the back of the plane.

The tank thing is not a problem with long lines, by using muffler pressure it will work just fine. I have installed tanks with the stopper to the rear but you have to use a long brass tube to reach the other end of the tank and a U shaped piece of brass tubing to route the klunk back to the stopper end of the tank. I have this in my Royal 336 Skymaster and it works just fine. Now granted I don't do wild aerobatics with the Skymaster but this fuel tank setup works great.

A trick I was shown one time makes cowling cut-outs for engines a breeze, Just tape a piece of paper to the fuse well back of the cowling line on the fuse, but long enough to cover the engine cylinder and needle valve. Make the appropriate cuts-outs on the paper and after your satisfied fold it back along the fuse. The take the engine off and place the cowling on the plane and fold the paper back over the cowl. Mark the cowl through the cut-outs on the paper and then remove the cowl and make the cut outs. When you replace the engine back on the plane and put the cowl on the cut-outs and the cylinder/needle valve holes should line right up. I usually make the cowl cut-outs a little smaller than the paper ones then fine trim the cut-outs for a very neat fit. I remember how much trouble the old way off trial and error was. The only thing with the LongEZ is that the cowl tends to overheat the engine as there is no scoop for incoming air, and the cylinder head of the 46 OS's dont stick out enough to get a good airflow so I just fly with out it. I have some ides about adding a scoop but just haven't gotten to do it yet.

Don't play around too much with the CG it may get you into trouble 1/4 inch off is OK but if your 3/4 inch off I'd do what it takes to get it closer. Rube, if your balacned in front of that shown then your nose heavy. If it balances there then when you go back to the place shown in the instructions the nose drops. Remember that it still acts the same in front of the plans CG its nose heavy, behind the plans CG its tail heavy. The canard will have to do a lot of lifting it is nose heavy and it may not fly too great. It may make you have to make longer ground runs to get enough airspeed to lift off. You can read what mine does with the nose gear up and down in the other posts on the LongEZ.not much change in flight but some difference at the CG.

Pete

Thanks Pete, thats some good information. As for the balance, I placed a piece of masking tape below the wings on each side of the plane, made a mark at 130 mm(EDIT! the mark I made was 152 mm----I was thinking about the 120 size Gee Bee I bought at the same time as the Long EZ!) back from leading edge of wing and using your numbers from page 1 of this thread with regard to "16 3/16 inches back from the leading edge of the canard, gear down and no fuel" and made a mark on the tape at that spot as well. The mark suggested in the manual is right at 1/2 inch behind the mark from your data. I agree, it does feel heavy on the front end....but I'd much rather be just a bit nose heavy than tail heavy. It would be interesting to see where your model balances with regard to a measurement back from the leading edge of the wing---gear down, no fuel--to compare. If it's right at 118(140!) mm then I should be good to go.
I like that tip about cutting out the cowling. I rarely paint a model, but recently I've completed a vintage Ziroli F4 Phantom with a K&B 7.5 ducted fan for power. Used copious amounts of brown paper and masking tape in getting the paint right. So I found a new use for the masking tape on my EZ--use it to mark and measure things. See if I can post a photo of the F4. (the Long EZ is going to be my "jet trainer" to get my thumbs adjusted!)

Oh---and about mounting the prop. I'm using a Master Airscrew 9X7 3 bladed prop, and from what I can tell, the markings (Master Airscrew) are on the engine side of the prop instead of the cranskhaft nut side.....this puts the heavier leading edge of the prop in front of the trailing edge in a counter clockwise rotation as viewed from the rear looking forward. Sound right?

Thanks!
Rube

At the risk of hijacking this thread...

What's the largest prop you can fit on this bird -- while still allowing enough ground-clearance for rotation on takeoff and flare on landing?

Also, I'd like to throw a 4-stroke in one. Will the TT54FS (has about as much power as a regular 40) have enough grunt?

The TT weighs in at 15.5oz, wil that create a balance problem?

Thanks guys.