First of all, let me start out by saying that I'm writing this for NO reason other than to inform you the reader, of my personal experience with Horizon Hobby's customer service. I will start out with just the facts then add my own comments later. I merely want to inform people of MY personal experience with Horizon, so that those of you that have never had an experience with them will get both ends of the spectrum. Horizon's reputation is one of fast, courteous, and fair customer service; I have not experienced this....

I purchased a H9 Extra Easy 2 at the beginning of this month for my wife. She wanted to get into the hobby with me and I thought that purchasing a trainer with everything in it already would be the way to go to get her into the air ASAP. I followed the instructions to the letter, except I used some 30 min epoxy to glue the wings together, (I didn't trust clear tape to do the job). The batteries were charged overnight with the supplied charger and off to the field we went the next day...

At the field we met up with my club's senior instructor, he's been teaching people how to fly RC airplanes for 15 years and I trust him to be an expert on the hobby. He flew the Extra Easy 2 (dubbed Happy Flyer by my wife, smiley stickers and all) and trimmed it out, then after trimmed my wife flew on the buddy box until it ran out of fuel, Steve dead stick landed it perfectly. Re-fueled and up again... My wife by this time was getting the hang of turning so Steve introduced her to some maneuvers, rolls to start with. This flight was also uneventful. The 4th flight of the day my wife was doing a roll about 2 min into the flight when she got inverted the plane dove out of the roll and headed straight for the ground, Steve said he immediately released the switch and had control... he tried everything he could think of but we all watched the plane go from about 300 or 400 feet to 0. Cracked up pretty good too, engine buried in the wet mud too. So I picked it up and brought it back for the autopsy by experienced club members. Battery checked out at 4.82 volts a little low but the experts agreed enough charge to not be a factor. Then someone noted that the elevator servo could not be moved by hand, the experts at the field all agreed that the servo was "locked over solid" and that is must be a "defect". I was advised and many are to contact Horizon Hobby's and ask them if they would replace my wife's plane because of a defective servo. My instructor also wrote a letter explaining who he was and what happened.

I called Horizon hobby's and got *****, who sent me a pre-paid shipping label to send everything back, so I boxed it all up and shipped it in. By May 17th I had not heard back from anyone at Horizon, so I called in and talked with ***** again (I kept my tracking number and had already visited UPS.com to track it). Randy told me he had not seen my model yet, that it must not have shown up, so I then told him the UPS tracking info showed it had been delivered on the 13th, so then he tells me, he'll look at it this afternoon and call me back. That evening about 5:00 central I got a call saying that there was nothing wrong with any component of the airplane that the servo worked perfectly. I could not see how this was the case, I asked that it be re-tested by someone else, I also had to contact two managers at Horizon. Eventually they agreed to replace the airframe, but the same radio and engine was going back in the airplane.

I said that's fine, but at this point I don't trust that radio as far as I can throw it. So I have decided to rip out the JR radio and replace it with a Futaba system. However, it's now May 27 and still no box has arrived from Horizon. I think I'll call tomorrow the 28th and ask what's going on with it.

So again, I'm just posting this to let people know that I had some problems with Horizon. That it seems to me that they are changing their policies toward us (hobbyists). From my point of view, would it not have been easier to pull a new kit off the line already packed up and ship it out? This way they pulled a new airplane, spent time re-installing a questionable radio (this particular one not all JR's) and a repaired engine that may or may not be any good anymore. Not to mention that's it's been nearly a MONTH. I was hoping to get my wife back into the air ASAP, instead she's talking about dropping the hobby altogether because "I destroyed a $300 airplane" I keep telling her it was NOT her fault, she was doing EVERYTHING right, instructor AMA field, Buddy Box, etc.etc.

By the time all this happened I had already purchased a H9 P-51 .60 size and a sato engine, I had started building the P51, but the sato went right back to the store. Personally, I may not buy another Horizon product, as I had a bad personal experience with their customer service, I don't feel I was treated with respect, and I certainly don't think it's good business to keep someone waiting near a month for a replacement product. When/IF this plane finally shows’s back up, I'm going to sell the JR radio and install Futaba equipment that I purchased. I'm also going to ground test the living s*** out of it before it fly's again.


Again this post is MY PERSONAL experience with Horizon, I’m merely informing you of MY experience so that you can decide for yourself what kind of company they are, and if you trust that they will honor warranty’s and defects in a timely and courteous manner.

Just to clarify - Horizon 100% Great Products, 99.99% Great People and Service, I just seem to have been that 0.01%

Well based on your clear and concise write up I think they treated you fairly.

Sir,

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with Horizon. Seems to me, though, that you should count yourself lucky to have them agree to replace anything at all. With all of the variables involved in making a model fly, it's hard to ever really pinpoint the cause of a crash--especially after the impact, when the evidence is 'comprimised by deceleration trauma'. A stuck servo, after a nose-in impact from 400' hardly seems like compelling evidence, and you're asking them to take as fact an account of what happened based upon (a) your word (which I'm sure is good, but how do they know that?); and (b) your opinion of what happened. You may have witnesses who concur, but anyone who's been in the hobby for a little while knows how unreliable that kind of 'evidence' can be.

I don't really think it's reasonable to expect them to absorb the cost every time this scenario arises. If someone at your field had sold you that plane, and they had flown it and were satisfied of its airworthiness, I doubt he would give you your money back after you crashed it--just because you say it was due to a servo failure. Or, what if you had crashed a $4,000 scale job or jet, would you expect Horizon to buy it from you because you think the crash was caused by their servo failing?

Anyway, I'm not saying your account of what happened isn't accurate because I wasn't there to see it. I am bummed to hear about your wife's loss, we've all been there and it sucks. However, Horizon's service--the service that's prompting you to sell off all of your Horizon goods in protest--is, in my opinion, the best that the industry has to offer. They've done right by me MANY times, even when my explanation letter included admissions that I dumb-thumbed it. As far as how long it's taking, maybe you should ask whether or not any of the items they're giving you are back-ordered?

Just my $.02

You should be very happy with the generous and unneccessary offer they made to you. The servo "defect" you described was because of a CRASH. Your wife shouldn't be attempting a roll on her fourth flight with a high wing trainer that doesnt roll well to begin with. I feel it is poor judgement on your instructors part to encourage this. A loop should be attempted before a roll.
I have always had first class service from horizon and them giving you a free plane proves this.

Interesting story..(true)
Your experience with Horizon just cements the reason why I do business with them.
Slow shipping aside (who hasn't had slow shipping from time to time?)
I think they treated you extremely fair, and by replacing the plane showed you tremendous respect.
Very rarely can an accurate post mortem be done on a crash from 400 feet.
At best it is a seat of the pants educated guess. Hardly factual.
And you returned the Saito?
Huge mistake.
Let's see here, you refuse to do business with Horizon.
That leaves Great plains/Tower as the only company you can purchase engines/planes/electronics from.
I suggest you call Great Planes, tell them you just bought a Avistar Select with the radio and engine complete and tell them the same story.
I would be very surprised if they were that generous, but just the same, ask them.
Then when they don't offer to replace the radio and engine you can save yourself the aggravation and cross them off your list.

I hope you take this note in the spirit in which it was written, that is I hope you rethink your position and cool off a wee bit.
As many can attest I too have a short fuse, and have had many a time to regret a thing or two I've said.

Good luck,

Is it just me or am I reading a lot of these types of threads, where someone is upset with service somewhere and wants us to all back them up and boycott the said company. But once the gripe is vented and gotten off the persons chest they are then told of how much worse it could be.

I am behind Shaun 100% on this. I think too many people are trying to blame the suppliers of next to everything when a plane crashes and then getting pi**ed when only part of what they expect is returned.

If I were you rottie I would count my lucky stars you're getting anything at all. They could have very easily said you plunked it in blamed it on a servo and demanded a new kit. They could also have said the same thing and tell you to stuff it.

If you think the grass (customer service) is better on the other side you better be prepared for a pretty big shock.

Well you certainly are not getting muc sympathy for your plight are you? I agree they did more than justified by the evidence. I have always found that Horizon went that extra mile when it came to Customer Support and I think they have indeed bent over backwards. I would say that the weight of the pushrod and inertia involved probably busted acouple of teeth off the intermediate gear and locked it up. Too many variables to guarantee against. My vote goes to Horizon.

I have to agree with the others here. I'm not saying that this is what happened in this case but I see this sort of thing quite often at my field, someone dumb-thumbs one in and blames it on radio or equipment failure. I'm sure this reason gets VERY old for Horizon and all the other companies out there. Just out of curiosity, if the elevator servo "locked over solid" as you put it, wouldn't that have caused the plane to loop several times in 400' before it went in? Seems to me it would not have headed straight down.

The initial story on this thread is eerily similar to an experience that I had with a Hangar 9 Easy 2 a couple of years ago.

I was working with an advanced student, near solo. He asked if he could do a roll (about 2 mistakes high). I watched him do the roll and stop at inverted. The plane was descending while inverted, so I suggested to him that he continue the roll. At that point he told me that he never intended to stop the roll. I took the plane back, and the ailerons had no effect. I figured 'no problem' and went to do a 'split s' out of it. When I pulled back on the stick, the plane did a quarter loop until it was pointed straight down and then stayed that way until it hit the ground. It was a total loss.

I felt horrible about the whole thing, but it bugged me that I could not find out the cause of the crash. It's actually the only crash I've ever experienced where I could not find a plausible cause. The radio appeared to work fine when we dragged the remains back to the bench, and we could not reproduce any condition where the aileron or elevator servo did not work.

I ended up replacing the trainer myself (because there was a family of 5 kids sharing the plane, and I wanted to get them in the air again.) I also suggested that they call Hangar 9 to see if they had any ideas. Hangar 9 went ahead and replaced the airframe with a new one. Unlike the original poster, I was thrilled that they would make this gesture. As far as I know, both planes - the replacement that I gave them, and the one that Hangar 9 gave them - are still flying to this day (the kids soloed, so I don't see them out at our trainer nights very often.)

I've recommended Hangar 9 planes many times since then as a result of their level of customer service on this incident. I guess that puts me into the camp of folks that believe the original poster's expectations are unrealistic...

-Wade

Rottielover,
As you can see by my tag line I am directly involved in this arena. Your treatment by Horizon, with the possible exception of the time delay was more than fair. When it comes to warranty customers seem to think it's always easy and black and white, not so, the things some try to get away with are astonishing and some times comical, and I'm sure Shawn Evans from Yellow will back me up on this. Just to give you a small example, we had a customer demand the replacement of a plane / engine combo because the instructions did not give step by step procedure on mounting the battery and it came loose in flight, another yelled at me for 20 minutes because we didn't tell him in advance he needed to reverse an elevator servo so he thought I should be responsible for the purchase price of the component.
Now nobody is saying your description of the events isn't 100% accurate, but from this side of the fence after a while it gets tough to tell.

Interesting....rolls turn into a crash....I've flown mine and have done a lot of rolls (use of rudder really helps a lot) and never had any problems.

Jerry

Well, it's obvious that people only read parts of posts.

I am EXTREMELY PLEASED that the MANAGERS at Horizon have agreed to replace my wife's airframe...

#1 I'm MAD at the "first line" people because a. they made my instructor feel "stupid" when he talked to them and b. they DID NOT CALL ME BACK, I waited almost a week and 1/2 before I had to call in to get the "we don't have it, oh wait we do have it" response.

Just because I'm pleased they replaced the airplane doesn't mean I'm not entitled to my opinion of not buying another Horizon product. I felt that the guy I talked to at first was disrespectful, and treated me with distain. I had a Futaba servo with a defect and Futaba replaced it within a week. Slow SHIPPING aside, Horizon has dragged its feet on this... what is the date today? What was the date they got it?

I think some of you just love to flame people.

Again, I posted this as MY experience with their customer support. Perhaps I got a "bad egg" with this first fellow, as the managers were nice, and pleasant to deal with.

I've also had my interest peaked by the poster who describes a VERY similar incident with another Extra Easy........

Also, if there was a delay with the plane backorder etc. Why didn't they call me AGAIN! Again maybe the guy handling my case is the exception not the rule over at Horizon, but I think you guys mis-understand my post. I am NOT calling for a boycott; I am NOT saying that any of Horizon's products are cheap/crap/etc......

I AM saying that I had a bad experience, also keep in mind that they have not actually replaced anything as of yet cause nothing has shipped yet as far as I know. Again, I'm going to call in again today since they won't call me.


Oh ya, and "thank my lucky stars" nothing, I could have had that plane fixed and flying agian in this ammount of time, (mud was very soft that day plane wasn't total loss). In FACT, I was planning on fixing it myself until the club members told me about this great customer service at Horizon, that I should call them......

I've flown literally dozens of Easy Fly, Easy 2, Xtra Easy and Alpha trainers from Hangar 9 (last night I flew my first Xtra Easy 2), and just about every other trainer you can imagine as well. I do instruction for our club on our weekly training nights. I've been doing between 150 and 200 logged training sessions per summer for the last 8 years.

I roll trainers all the time (and I am well versed in use of the rudder). The reason that the incident I posted above was memorable to me is that it's the only time I've ever crashed a trainer doing a roll, and I could come up with no reason whatsoever for the plane to do what it did. I never figured out what happened that caused the behavior.

I've crashed about 5 planes since I've been instructing, and in all of the other cases, there was either an obvious mechanical malfunction or - in two cases - a midair collision.

I replaced the plane myself because I felt bad that, even after a post crash analysis, I couldn't come up with a reasonable explanation as to why it was destroyed. This is the only incident I've ever had where I've felt any need to replace a student's airplane.

The reason that I posted to this thread is that I certainly didn't hold Hangar 9 responsible for it. They greatly exceeded my expectations by offering to replace the plane.

Thanks,
-Wade

Please don't take my story as any indication that there is a problem with any Hangar 9 planes.

If you read the other post I made a few minutes ago, you'll see that I've flown dozens of these airplanes. With lots of experience (If I had to guess, I'd say that I've flown around 50 different Hangar 9 trainers of various models), I can tell you that they are fine flyers. Also, the plane I was talking about was an Easy 2, not an Xtra Easy. The Easy 2 was a precursor to the Xtra Easy and differs in some important ways. Most significantly, the Easy 2 does not include the engine and radio.

From the standpoint of airframe, I would recommend any of the Hangar 9 trainers without hesitation. I think that the weakest part of the Xtra Easy is the MDS engine, which is not involved in either of our incidents. To Hangar 9's credit, the new Evolution engine that they are putting in the Alpha and Xtra Easy 2 trainers is vastly superior to the MDS in terms of ease-of-use for beginners.

Finally, I'd just like to say that I did read your whole original post. Your issues with the delay are definitely valid. But with only half of the story, I don't want to rush to judgement. Based on my experience with Hangar 9 and Horizon Hobby, I don't believe for a second that there was any malice on their side. There was some reason it took a while to get your plane replaced, but we don't know what that reason was. As for making your instructor feel stupid, you never said that in your original post (and in any case, I've personally never spoken with Hangar 9 support; my student did). My comment in my first reply is that I thought Hangar 9 was completely fair in replacing your airframe, and it's not reasonable for them to replace a radio that they had tested and found to be functioning correctly.

Thanks,
-Wade

Rottielover I would suggest you take a nice deep breath and a step away from the keyboard to calm yourself. Just because people do not agree with you does not mean that they are flaming you. Believe me. You will know if you are flamed.
Frankly, however, these people would rather help than flame. So please don't invite it.

With the exception of the Delay I feel your treatment by Horizon was more than fair. They had no reason to replace the airframe and they did so anyway. The Radio system that comes with that trainer is top Notch. By throwing it away you are only costing yourself money. Sometimes in this hobby unexplained things happen. A servo can get stripped or you can get an unexplained hit on the radio. These things do happen and they suck. The distributor of your product is not responsible for these things.

When Horizon recieved the gear they tested it and found no problems with the radio gear. What does this tell them? It tells them there was nothign wrong with the radio gear and the fault must be somewhere else. perhaps in the pilot, perhaps in something unavoidable by the pilot. The point though is that they don't know you. They could not say if you are honorable or honest. It your your word against the proof in front of them. Given that they still went out of thier way.

You called them 4 days after they recieved it and you were suprised he had not seen it yet. But think about this. It probably arived in the afternoon on the 13th so that day was a wash. And right now is a very busy time in the hobby. They are pretty swamped right now I would guess and 3 or 4 days is not that much if they are really busy.

You also claim the radio was questionable. I hate to break this to you but they know a lot more about it than you do. And if they OK the radio then I would take thier words over yorus. Sorry.

So in closing
*You have ruled out one of the best companies in the business.

*You have thrown out a Great radio and Engine.

*You have tried to convince other people that they mistreated you when they didn't.

*And finally you have now lashed out at some of the people here because they did not agree with you.

And you did all this because the company had the gall to go out of its way and replace something they didn't have to and then refused to give you even more free stuff when you demanded it.

As for the shipping delays. When I think about it I don't think it has been all that bad. 2 weeks? Normal turnaround times for companies is 4-6. Be glad this was not.

I don't see any "flaming" going on in this post, just some educational comments.

The "expert" level of instructors and flyers varies from club to club so their input in Horizon's decision process is noted but not a determining factor. Replacing the airplane with a checked out radio is pretty solid service on their part.

*You have ruled out one of the best companies in the business.

Because of the poor support I was given by one individual, when you call a company and get talked down too and insulted would you not be upset???? There was absolutly no reason for this guy to get sarcastic with me, I was not rude, I didn't DEMAND anything, I simply wanted to know what they were going to do for me and this guy , in short, was an ***.

*You have thrown out a Great radio and Engine.

NO, I haven't thrown out anything, the radio I'm probly going to sell yes, but the Engine I'm going to keep, your not reading my posts....

*You have tried to convince other people that they mistreated you when they didn't.

The whole company did not, just this ONE guy, why can't I get people to understand me, ONE GUY over there mistreated me!!!! AND YES 1 guy can Ruin it for the WHOLE company for me!!!!

*And finally you have now lashed out at some of the people here because they did not agree with you.

I haven't "lashed out" at anyone. I think you are reading tone and inflection into my post that are simply not there.

As stated, I had a problem with ONE rep over at horizon, the MANAGMENT treated me right.

Also, I didn't DEMAND anything, I would have been perfecly happy to get 1 new servo, when I talked about them sending a new kit I was just asking if that would have been easier on them since it's been a month.

You see, I'm the one that doesn't agree with you guys, and I'm the one getting hammered away at, yet when I post corrections I'm the one that's "lashing out". Better to find the log in your eye than the splinter in mine?

Guys READ MY WORDS....

I'm very greatful to Horizon Managment, for checking out my radio, replacing my airplane, and fixing the engine. THANK YOU HORIZON Managment for GREAT SERVICE!!!!!!

Now, that first rep I talked to, the one that "handled" my case, well let's just say I hope he doesn't deal with anyone else like he did me.

Will I buy a Horizon product again, probly not, why not you ask when I eventually got great serivce, just that EVENTUALLY, and I had to speak with managment, I would not have this sour taste in my mouth had the orginal rep been more "normal" to me on the phone instead of the way I was talked too.

You know what, I wish I would have recorded that phone call.......

Very well said, Azizza.
15 replies and not one person thinks that Horizon has acted irresponsibly or treated you unfairly or with disrespect.
To reiterate, just because folks do not agree with you, Rottielover, in no way implies being flamed.

I am in customer service for a living. I take many, many phone calls every day, and I strive for excellence.
Do I treat people differently depending on their attitude?
Darn skippy I do.
Were you humble on the phone?
Were you demanding? OK, you answered this one.
Were you hostile in any way?
Were you emotional?
Did you think of how this must sound to the customer service rep who hears these type of complaints day in and day out?

When ever I help someone who takes these things into consideration when they ask for my assistance I go out of my way to serve/help them in every way possible.
The nicer they are, the more help they receive.
Human nature, I guess.
Compassion and understanding goes both ways.
I have had numerous contacts with Horizon Service in the last 7 years or so.
Every time, every single time, their customer service has been exemplary.
Second to none.
I too have read every word in your first post, several times.
I cannot help but think that your attitude/phone skills contributed to how your problem was handled.
It is my honest opinion that your dissatisfaction is the clear exception to the hundreds of compliments/comments I see and read about regarding Horizon Hobby Service.

You know what, I wish you had too.

Review this in a year. I think you might agree with some of the folks you think are flaming you.

I think every single response on this thread has tried to treat you with respect. Nobody even complained about you misspelling "pique". But you notice that Wade, who piqued your interest, quickly pointed out he didn't mean his post to point fingers at the hardware or the company.

We've all had unexplained mishaps. We've all had expectations dashed. Most of us got over it without flaming good companies. Which is what you've done.

Good luck
Dave Olson

I just got thru RE-explaining in other posts that I'm not flaming Horizon for the product, I'm upset that I was treated so rudely and unprofessionally by one of that company's representatives.

That rep has ruined it for me, period. My sole purpose was show that there is a dark side out there, I'm glad that so many of you get such excellent service, for me, it required that I had to go that extra mile to find someone willing to listen.

Seems to me like people begin to read my posts and make up their minds that I'm somehow "bashing, flaming, blaming" Horizon as a whole, that’s not the whole story! I blame the rep that treated me rudely, if I had called any other company, and got treated like that, I would not buy their products anymore either!

Flame (n): An insulting criticism or remark meant to incite anger

How was I inciting anger with my post? I was just telling people about what happened to me.

I just went back and reread your initial post again to make sure I had it right.

In there you made no mention of the guy being sarcastic or rude. The only thing even remoly out of line was his saying they did not have it yet and then checking and finding that they did.

Have you considered that it had not gotten to him yet? Perhaps someone else took it to work on, or perhaps he is human and makes mistakes just like every one else.

You have said yourself that the managers were very helpful to you. If you are really this slighted by the guy then call and complain about him then move on. But if you are going to get this upset every time a CSR or tech doesn't live up to your expectations then you are going to run out of companies to deal with very quickly, not only in RC but in pretty much every other field as well.

Also I find the idea that you would discount a company this quickly over this sort of issue a bit... Well, childish.

I won't address the service issue, that has been more than covered here. What I would like to address is a possible explanation for some of you who have had a "lock-up" problem that eventually led to a crash. Won't recover the lost planes, but may save a future one.

I have an Easy Fly 40 that after a sharp left aileron turn refused to straighten out. In my panic to recover the situation (I was heading toward the flight line and losing altitude!) , I moved both sticks around wildly and by some miracle I regained control.

After landing the plane, I examined the plane to see what was wrong. Long story short, the "z" bend I put in the aileron control rod that connected to the aileron servo was getting stuck under the throttle servo control arm. This took the right combination of throttle and aileron, but I could get it to happen every single time I tried.

I believe this was happening the aileron servo mounts fairly "high" in the wing and just behind where the throttle servo arm is located. Shortening the z-bend in the aileron control rod and shifting the throttle servo over resolved the problem and it never reappeared.

BTW, you may notice in my profile that the plane has been "retired", but that is only because the ratio of clear packing tape to ultracote is a tad higher than I like (there is such as thing as being too "ratty"), and it is awaiting recovering or sale.

Azizza,

Your right, I should have done a better job explaining in my first post, I wrote in haste... allow me to clarify a bit... On the morning of the 14th I called and talked to said rep who said the plane had arrived and he would be looking at it and calling me back. On the 15th I placed my call and got the "we don't have it, ...."

Perhapse the guy was swamped with work but that absolutly doesn't justify the next time I spoke to him.

Your right and I have already complained (hence the Managment helping me out)...


Childish, perhapse, but it is my money why should I support the paycheck of a guy that made me feel like absoulte crap? (AND my instructor)

Also I really should have said MAY never buy another product.... I'm very seriously hurting over that 1.50 Mustang they have comming out.......

Again just to clarify, Horzion - 100% Good Products, 99.99% Good People and service, I just happened to get that 0.01% I guess, but it still makes me sad thinking about it