O.K. Guys,

Reading through this thread has got me thinking. I will be picking up a used Saito 120 four stroke and I'm looking for a plane for it. I am partial to the Edge's and Extra's of the world. The Staudacher is nice too. I have been looking for a plane for this engine (preferably an ARF) and can't seem to find what I am looking for. Both of the 66" birds from Vector look really nice.

While it may be a little more engine than is needed, do you owners out there think the 120 would fit? I would like to get one of these, but only if it would mount correctly.

Opinions? Thanks!

John the 66" Extra from VF will be right up your alley as discussed in the other thread

Matt,

What about the 120? Are you saying that it WILL fit fine? But, then again you probably knew I was going to ask that question

I have a 91 on my 58". Im gonna wait to get the consensus of other owners for the 120 in question here. The 66" version is considered a 60-90 plane so a 100 or 120 is a probable candidate for it anyway. Im sure it will fit my only concern might be the weight factor in the nose.

can any owners chime in here?

I have a YS110 in my 66" VF Edge and it's a perfect match.

I reckon your Saito 120 would also be a great match in any of the 66" models.

-David C.

Thanks David

I hear the Customer service is wonderful there, so maybe I should just give them a call and ask? I'll let everyone know.

It's a good idea to send them an email or call them. I can honestly say I have never had such a good experience with any other company as I have with their customer service.

Try this email address:-

[email protected]

-David C.

Here is the response I got from Vectorflight. It was fast but they understandably took the high road. Unless I hear from others who have put a 4-stroke 120 in there, I will probably just scale down to the 91 size: C'mon anybody put a 120 in either the Edge or the Extra?

Dear John:

Thank you for your message. A 120 is bigger than the recommended range for
our 66 inch wingspan airplanes and we do not have any personal experience
with such. However we do have several reports from customers who have used
120 4 strokes and 1.08 2 strokes. There are several issues to consider when
using an oversize engine, for example the firewall and tailplane in
particular should be reinforced to absorb the extra stresses.

A Dave Brown FS 120 engine mount is available at most good hobby stores,
which will fit into the existing pre drilled firewall mounting holes, with a
little coaxing. The supplied engine mount, a Dave Brown FS90, will be
undersized for the 120. The Edge is more suitable for a heavier engine as
it has a slightly longer tail moment which will help to counter the added
weight in the nose. Reportedly both airplanes have been flown successfully
with these larger engines. The extra weight may also require adjusting CG
and control throws so that the airplane is not prone to tip stalling.

The current published lead time is 2 weeks, although we are beginning to cut
it down by a few days at this time. It will still be at least 10 days
before we can ship an airplane out. We do apologize for this inconvenience.

Please let us know if you may have any other questions. We will be haply to
provide as much information as possible to help you make a decision.

Regards,

C/S
VF

There is a fellow who posts on RCU that files an Edge with a 120 4-stroke Magnum. he says it performs well, I think his handle is "cootertoo".

I think the Edge would be a better plane for a big 4-stroke as I think they are still using 1/4" birch ply for the firewall and landing-gear plate. These components are made from lite-ply on the Extra. This was my only dissapointment when I had a look at my plane when it came in. From the web-site I assumed that the Extra had birch ply in these areas.

Just checked the elevator throws and low rates are set at 3/8" and the high rates are set at 3/4".I will have to check the ailerons tomorrow as we are in the middle of "severe" thunder storms.

Spoke with VF 3 times today via email. They are great. Per the post above, they were careful about recommending the 120 FS for the 66" planes, but said that others had.

David_Moen - Thanks for the lead on Cootertwo! I sent him a PM and asked about the 120 size engine. After looking at his website though I think things will be fine. There is one picture where it appears to be balancing pretty well and he is commenting about maybe not having to put lead in the tail. We shall see.

David Cutler - Dealing with these people is a very pleasant experience. In an inquirey about replacement parts, I learned that the Edge has two wing halves as opposed to a solid wing. That coupled with your 110 and Cootertwo's 120 fitting nicely in the cowl have pretty much made up my mind for me. Late I saw on Cooter's site the mods he made for the wing joining assembly. Did you do this too or did you go stock? You have also referred to brass inserts on the belly pan instead of screws. Can you ellaborate? Are you talking about "bling" type threaded inserts and then using a screw into that? Any pics of this detail?

Has anyone tried to remove any of the decals and dress up the plane with alternate trim schemes? Nothing against what they provide, but it would be nice to be able to put a signature to it. Since I have pretty much decided on the 66" Edge, I would like to hear some all up weights from those of you who have it. Might give me a good reference for wing loading with the increased weight of the 120.

Cooter where are you

Thanks everyone for your info. Thanks for getting them started Diablo!

John

Gald to hear things work out John. When ordering you can indicate you would like it plain without the factory applied graphics. They can send it pretty much how you want it. Min is stripped of the decals and is currently getting restored and customized. Pics next week.

good luck John

matt

Hi John,

I used the standard method to make the wing joints. I would suggest you sand them a little at a time to ensure a really good fit. Actually, it's quite hard work as the ply is so hard, but it's worth it.

To mount the belly pan and cowl, I use brass inserts:-

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK030&P=7

- screwed into the firewall (for the cowl) or a piece of hard balsa epoxied inside the fuselage side (for the belly pan), and a short 4-40 steel bolt going through a washer and small piece of fuel tubing.

David C.

I don't like running screws directly into balsa either. I mount the belly pan and cowl as per the instructions, then I remove them. FInd where the holes you made for are and glue a balsa block in the inside of the fuse over the hole. Then drill out the holes in the fuse with a 1/8" drill. Epoxy a peice of Ny-rod into the holes, your screws will now go into the nylon rather than the balsa. Once caution, if you knock the wing off you will break the belly pan at the screw holes.

David C and David M - Thanks for the responses guys. Sorry for the typo, I meant "blind" type nuts. The photo you sent me was exactly what I thought you were talking about. Did you use and epoxy or CA when you intalled it? Other David - Nice touch about the Nyrod.

Cooter two has contacted me and Vector even suggested that I take a look at his site. Can anyone out there put up a pic of the bottom of the edge? Cant find one on cootertwo's site or the VF site. I would like to maybe do some custom trim or maybe do as Diablo suggests and ask for the plane sans decals. Probably place my order in a week or so when the back log gets lower and I have my 120.

I drill a suitable hole and screw the brass insert in until it's still slightly proud, then carefully drip thin CA round it so it soaks down the outside threads. Seems to work well.

-David C.

Checked the aileron throws tonight and they are 1/4" low and 3/4" high.Really touchy on high and may bring them down a little.The reply on the inserts was on the money,I used the DUBRO.I glued another piece of balsa behind the screw holes then drilled them out to the proper size and put a little epoxy in the holes then screwed in the inserts.Used 5 min epoxy and worked the cap screws in and out to be sure the threads stayed clear.Not able to get a good picture of it as my digital camera is acting up,menu screen is not working and cant change settings for close up shot.I will keep trying.As for the 120 engine I think it would fit but I believe the 91FX that I have on mine is more than enough.I found a program called Thrust HP in one of the modeling magazines and downloaded it for the site.I entered the rpm,prop size,and type and it shows 12.71 lbs static thrust with apc 14/6 prop at 10500 rpm.On the 4 flights I have on mine saw no problem with vertical but to be honest I am waiting for the engine to have a few more flights on it before I go to crazy with it so as not to cook the engine.As one of the guys at the field says"no point in cooking it if you cant eat it"......The plane balanced perfectly as is with no lead anywhere,might need some with the larger engine.Picture shows wood prop but it will be changed out for the apc,used the wood because I wanted it to break and not damage anything else if i goofed up on the first few landings.

There are some really cool push-to-close, quarter-turn to open type fasteners out there....I wish some of them were available for our use! Check these out...

http://www.dzus.co.uk/Live/Dzus/CMS....urces/pdf_d12/$File/dzus_pilotintro.pdf

We used to use Dzus quarter-turn fasteners on the farings of race bikes, it meant that you could strip a bike in about 30 seconds with no tools.

I had asked Cooter about the wheels in his picture. They look pretty small. He came back and said he was using the small wheels on pavement.

Can anyone tell me what size wheels come with the Kit? (Edge 66"). Also, how does it perform on Grass field? Wheel Pants pose any problems? Mods?

Thanks everybody,
John

2 1/2" wheels came with my 66" Extra, I think they are the same on the Edge. The wheels look undersized if you don't install the wheel pants. Mine has been OK on a grass field. If I didn't install teh wheel pants, and I'm not sure that they are staying on at this point, I think I'd go up to 3" wheels.

Has anyone come up with a really good way to secure the wheel pants? I used teh supplied hardware, put a double nut on the LG side of the wheel and sandwiched the wheel pant between that and the LG. Tightening the nut that holds the LG on causes the wheel pant to distort. Not tightening it lets the wheel pant rotate too easily.....grrrrr.

Installing wheel pants and fuel tanks are my pet hate!

I have used two 5/32" wheel axles, with two SIG wheel pants brackets each side, supporting the pants with them on both ends of the axles.

That way you have a very firm support for both sides of the wheel pant, but still retaining the movement afforded by the two bolts tightened onto the axle in extreme situations. Even though the two screws hold tight onto the axle shafts, they still tend to rotate if there is excessive force from, say, landing in grass.

-David C.

While I don't even have a kit yet, maybe this would help. I seem to remember reading somewhere a few years ago about a solution to the wheel pants problem in one of the publications.

The short of it is to take a piece of lite ply and cut it to fit inside the well of the wheel pant on the inboard side. Basically, it is supposed to give the pant more area to secure to while allowing for a more positive fit of the assembly to the LG mount. Again, I don't even have my kit yet, and this may only work on a larger aircraft, but maybe this will help someone.

David, can you explain a little more about your fuel tank "pet hate"? Does the Edge pose any particular problems? Is it accessable without breaking the plane down....i.e. removing the wings? From the looks of things, it is not. Also, will it accept larger aftermarket tanks?

Thanks everybody.

John

Actually, my pet hate for tank fitting is more general than that!

The Edge has plenty of room to fit the standard tank or a larger one if you need it. I fitted an extra support plate and used screws.

-David C.

I was contemplating expoxying some lite ply on the inboard side of the wheel pants. One of them needs a repair in that area anyway as it failed my last "airframe integrity test".

The wheel pants glook great if you dress the seam with some body filler (Bondo), then sand and paint them. I used gloss white Tremclad. Sticks well to the plastic.