Chip, I think you are not well informed. Please check with Marcelo.

Ok Luis you have left me no choice, and I apologize to everyone that has been following this thread. When you say that I am not well informed you make it sound like I do not know what is going on down here and I can assure you that is not the case. Luis (Netbox)was the distributor for CA models in the US for some time when they were making many different models along with the pattern type airplanes.

Apparently 2 or 3 years ago (maybe less) Luis ordered a container of airplanes and they arrived late and missing parts. Marcelo flew to Fl. to try to smooth things over and paid for the additional items to be sent air to Luis. Now was this Marcelos fault ABSOLUTELY. Luis then continued to be the distributor for quite some time and continued to profit off of the F3A models. He always talked of ordering containers but never did it was always small amounts which is understandable in this business.

So now because of the first container problem Luis is a little more cautious but loves the Edge 40% and decides to order a container of them only he want to do things a little different. He decides that he will pay 25% up front and then some more when there is an instruction manuel and then a little more at the time of shipping and then the rest after they are delivered. Now again since I was in the airplane business I know a little about this so hear me out. To build a container full of 40% airplanes you need a lot more then 25% (approx $5000.00 and change) no matter where you are China or otherwise. So for Marcelo to accept that in the first place was not the smartest thing to do. So in my opinoun was Marcelo wrong again ABSOLUTELY. Also that saying "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" comes to mind. However shortley after Luis sent that money he needed two Passports right away so Marcelo sent them without any payment because he had the deposit from the Edge order. Having gone through all of the paperwork when I came here so I know this for a fact.

At that point Marcelo had approx $2500.00 of Luis's money for a containor of 40% Edges. Now as I am sure you can imagine that is not exactley the capital needed to produce that quantity of planes. Anyhow along with this Luis crashed his Edge because it just broke in half in mid air for know reason and needed another one. (I again, owned a business and trust me there is always a reason) Now I cannot be exact on the date of this because after speaking to Luis the time frames very greatly. One time it was 3 months ago the next time its 6 months so I am not really sure but he did need a plane.

About this time I was back in the US and received a phone call from Luis. This was the first time ever he called me even after I had repeatedly tried to get a hold of him a year or so earlier with no luck. He told me this big long story about how he had paid in advance in full for a container of edges and Marcelo had all his money. He then went on to tell me how great a job we were doing now and that he wishes us the best. To be honest with you guys I almost backed out of the whole Visa deal and if it weren't for Miriam I probably would have. I gave Luis my word that when I got back down to Argentina I would do my best to help him out which I did.

After flying back down I immediately spoke to Marcelo about this explaining that somehow someway we had to fix this. (I was still thinking Marcelo owed Luis $30,000-$40,000) Marcelo showed me all the transactions and when I found out the grand total was approx. $2500.00 it felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. Now hindsight be 20/20 I probably should of severed my contact with Luis simply because of the lies he told me on the phone but I did not.

I pulled 6 Edges off the shelf and stopped all the work on F3A planes in the factory to get the ARCs finished. I was in constant contact with Luis and had it arranged to give him these models in order to smooth things over. This was good for a couple days but then he decided he wanted an Onas instead. I then moved his Onas to the front of the line (just behind my personal Visa which I had to have for Phoenix) I again spoke with him on the phone several times and via email but he changed his mind again.

This time he demanded my personal Visa or his money back. Now at that time in the world there was a grand total of one Visas and I had built it from start to finish so I quoted him $7500.00 ready to fly with everything. Of course that was to much so he wanted his money back. I arranged for that and had Todd Blose immediately pay Luis instead of us the money for his Visa. As soon as Luis was contacted by Todd he changed his mind again but then it was to late he was getting the money, which he did. At that point I was finished with Luis as I had spent most of my time here going in circles for him with no end in sight.

He continues to call and email Marcelo daily for an edge. I had to tell Luis not to contact me anymore because I recognized there is no end to this. So Marcelo, worried about past history has been trying to help Luis out because Luis always says, he just wants to be friends. I have tried to explain to Marcelo it will never end and that he really just wants "a friend" but have stayed out of it until now.

When I saw his first post I refrained from going into a ton of detail, but after his second one suggesting that I do not know whats going on here I had to, and for this I apologize. I have spent the last 4 months of my life working 7 days a week 12-15 hours a day here to help Marcelo turn his business around and we have.

Luis is not the only one that has had a problem in the past but the other people we have addressed and been able to make things right at a great exspense, because it was just the right thing to do. So now everything is out in the open and this is what I hope everyone sees by this. Marcelo is not perfect, I am not perfect (far from it) but we have worked extremely hard to become one of the best pattern plane manufactures in the world and I believe we have reached that goal. It gives me great satisfaction hear from people like Tony F., Dave Snow, Mike Mueller, Mike Klein, Todd Blose, etc things like "the planes they have received are the nicest they have ever owned." That says a lot ot me because between just those 5 we have close to 150 years of modeling experience.

Sorry to drag this out but I just could not let it go we have worked to hard.

Chip

Hi Todd,

Any more build pics? Its always good to see how others do it, it helps take some head scratching time away from the project.

Steve

Hey Steve,
I will have some Saturday when I get back Home. I will be mounting the motor, rudder and wings so I will take lots of pic's.

Steve,

I will post some pics as well tommorrow of my exact install. I need to go to the field to take them because my planes are in the hanger. I am also happy to say that we are completely caught up and the planes are now shipping within a day or two of our quote. That can either be plus or minus. This week alone we finished 3 complete all paint airplanes. The last of which is Keith Blacks Visa which we have cleared the wings and stabs but not the fuse yet. We will tomorrow early in the morning.

I want to take this time to thank everyone that has been a little patient with us while we figured out exactley what it take to make the models at this level. I think that we are right with the best of the manufacters and we can now deliver much faster. Time will tell but I am happy as is Marcelo. We now have a great team dedicated to making great planes.

CHip

Keiths visa pics

Here are a few pics of my Visa elev set up. This is for the guys that run the plit rudder. The rod is .060 carbon.

Chip

Thanks Chip,

At first I was asking myself, "why not run a single servo and a 'Y' type pushrod?". Then I saw the picture of how you run the pushrods. They are an absolute straight shot to the elevator. That is superior I believe. I was thinking of moving my servos forward on my Visa just to get the extra mass out of the tail. I like this approach.

Steve.

And independant adjustment.

Chip

Almost done with my new Visa, firewall and rear support are installed as well as all servos. All that's left is mounting the motor and speed controller and installing the push rods. I should do the test flight tomorrow. This plane is beautiful, Thanks again Chip and Marcelo great work.

more

I was able to get 4 flights on the Visa today and I am very impressed. Looks like I got very lucky on the setup because the plane did not take any trim.
The up and down were straight up and down. I am not using any mixing on rudder to aileron but I do have 1% up elev. on left rudder for knife edge and
no mix on right rudder. Looks like pulling air through the spinner is working the speed controller and batteries were cool after the flight, the motor was warmer
then the batteries so I will take a look at that. I hope to get some more flights in the next couple of days so I should know more then.

Congratulations Todd,

I hacked away all day on mine. My back is sore and my feet hurt, but I am sure it will be worth it!! What did you end up setting your wing and stab incidence to? I zeroed everything out and have it all squared up, now I will dial in my wing incidence. I was getting set to dial +0.5 to the wing and 0.0 to the stab.

Steve.

Congrats Todd! Ican't wait to receive mine.

In earlier pictures it looked like you mounted both rudder and elevator servos in the tail, is this correct?

Would you mind posting some pictures of your servo installation?

Thanks,
Keith

Kieth no problem on mounting your servos in the tail as yours has the new laser cut split rudder which is an ounce and change lighter then the foam version. I only moved mine forward because I was wanting to be able to run the 4350 packs and they are so much lighter then anything else. Turns out I settle on the 5000 TP

Chip

Steve,
Setup is 0 on the stab and +0.5 on the wings. CG is on the front of the tube


Keith,
Here are the pic's just let me know if you need any more. I wll also show the battery and rx setup.

more

Hey Guys,

I got my Visa a few days ago and have been working on it.

I mounted my servos in the tail as well, but did it a little differently then Todd. My elevator servos are mounted in the stabs.

Chip, the plane looks great, please tell everyone down there Thanks and they are doing a great job!!

Dan I am glad you like it. Here are a few pics of Kieths Visa that left yesterday. I am also going to have a laser cut servo box made in the next few days for the stabs. It will be for the 9650 as that is a servo you can mount either way vertical or horizontal. It won't come standard in all the planes because I know there are several different options for servos but it will be something you can specify at the time of order if thats what you want. The box is going to be set up to mount the servos flush in the bottom of the stabs similiar to how we mount them in the fuse for the split rudder.

Chip

Chip -

Can you upload a pic of the bottom of your tail section so that we can see where the rudder servos are mounted in relation to the elevator pushrods? I know Todd said something about his rudder servos being an obstacle to moving his elevator servos up front, so I wanted to see what you did to avoid that. Of course, I have the advantage of not having installed my rudder or elevator servos when learning of the move to the front.....Todd is much quicker about assemblying his planes when they arrive, so he was already committed. That said, Todd sounds like he is loving the plane and he has no balance issues.

Pics would be a great help. Thanks Chip. Have you passed your citizenship test over in Argentina yet?

Mike

Intersting that Argentina and the US have a dual citizenship agreement.
QQ came to us so why not the other way.
Just kidding kida sorta but still an interesting bit of info here.
http://www.justlanded.com/english/Ar...ts/Citizenship

Hi Mike,

Ditto that. I am at the same point you are. You can kind of see the alignment of the pushrods in a photo a few posts up. I was going to hinge the elevators and put the control horn on then use the laser to project a pushrod line onto the side of the fuse from where the control horn clevis mount hole is at with elevators at neutral. I could then mark this line and project another at the bottom from the control horn to the area where the servo will likely mount and see where it intersects the fuse wall for a straight line (or slight angle from the clevis to the servo depending on where the intersection point is). Once I have that marked I was going to compare this with the location of the rudder servos that I see guys are installing on their Visas. It should have clearance, but it's worth a check. I'll probably check that several times before I take a knife to the side of the fuselage. Doing that always makes me nervous. I might chicken out and mount the servos in the stabs, but I think the best way is to move them forward. I want to be able to run lighter batteries for calm P11 flights and larger ones for wind and F11.

Guys the servos clear no prob as the Elev. pushrods are above the rudder servo arms by quite a bit. I tried to answer that question twice today but my internet is slow during the day and I could not get it out.

Also many of you have asked how Glen Watson liked his Visa and if he has received it. The answer is yes he has and I can only guess that he has been tied up with work or he would have posted something. Anyway this is a copy of the email I received the day it arrived.

Chip,

Just unpacked the Visa it’s everything you described and more. Every detail such as the way it was packed in the crate, paint work, laser wood cutting and constructions etc. is first class. I’m looking forward to making it flight ready.


Glen is a guy that I have admired from a distance for a long time. He only speaks when he has something important to say and his equipment is always first class. To receive an email like that from him makes me feel really good and I know we are doing our jobs.

Chip

Chip, is there any particular reason you're considering mouting the servo flush on the stab as opposed to the approach Todd took, which Ibelieve was the same as yourprototypeplane? Just thinking through the approach I'll take as I'm waiting for the plane to arrive!

Thanks,
Keith B

Steve -

Pulling out the cool tools.....the laser idea sure beats using a bowed piece of spruce as an alignment tool :-) I was busy modifying my plane rack system in the car last night so that I could take my new Passport to the field this weekend, but I will get back at the Visa in the coming days and try to figure this front mounted elevator servo thing out. I like your idea of how to locate where to put a fuse exit for the pushrods. I am trying to figure how to know where to put the holes in the support cross-pieces. I guess that I will just guess and do some trial and error until I get it right. It is probably much easier when you actually sit down to do it than when you try to think it through.

Maybe the best way is to stack a couple crossmembers and drill them together for the pushrod supports, then start shaving equal amounts off each end until the rods follow the line you want toward the exit hole?

Mike